timb99
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Posts posted by timb99
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Rocky
Bear in mind your point blank range for that 30-30 will be much less than 250 yards, but the ballistics tables will help you with that.
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Are you shooting a semi-auto or an over-under for doubles?
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Good info from Tucker.
One item of note, my rifle has similar ballistics to Tucker's but I set my "zero" way out there. If you set your 100 yard bullet strike at about 2.5" to 3" high, your point blank range extends a ways out there, to about 250 yards.
That is, point blank means the elevation of the bullet does not deviate more than 3" above, nor 3" below the line of sight of your rifle scope.
But a good start is the ballistics tables, so you know what you're dealing with.
For deer, if you shoot at the heart/lungs, +/- 3", you'll hit something vital. I'm a traditionalist, as I go for the heart/lungs. Never had a deer run further away than I could see.
High shoulder shots are a tad less forgiving, but very, very effective.
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I am only going to get one choke to save money do you think a modified will work for handicap and doubles or should i get an improved modified?
How far back in handicap?
If you're only shooting 20-22 yards, modified is (typically) enough.
If you're going to shoot at 25 yards, an improved modified might be a better choice.
27? Full.
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Chokes are funny. You can call them whatever you want, but in the end, you don't really know what you have until you see what the pattern looks like on pattern paper.
That being said...generally:
Light modified is OK if you tend to shoot fast.
If not, use a modified.
Generally I shoot a modified for 16 yard singles. I shoot 1 ounce of 8-1/2 shot.
You will find that most trap shooters prefer a tighter choke. (Leo Harrison is often quoted as having said, "you can use any choke you want, as long as its a full choke.")
If you use a light modified and find you are "drawing dust" or "little chips" and not getting good solid breaks, use something tighter.
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Chokes are funny. You can call them whatever you want, but in the end, you don't really know what you have until you see what the pattern looks like on pattern paper.
That being said...generally:
Light modified is OK if you tend to shoot fast.
If not, use a modified.
Generally I shoot a modified for 16 yard singles. I shoot 1 ounce of 8-1/2 shot.
You will find that most trap shooters prefer a tighter choke. (Leo Harrison is often quoted as having said, "you can use any choke you want, as long as its a full choke.")
If you use a light modified and find you are "drawing dust" or "little chips" and not getting good solid breaks, use something tighter.
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tokenwhitemale,
If you want the answers to your questions, I recommend you pick up the phone and call the powder manufacturers and ask their technicians.
Hodgdon is just down the road from where I live, I know some of the Hodgdon family members, and their techs are always helpful.
Try to get Ron Reiber if you call Hodgdon. Ron is one of their product line managers, not to mention he's a master class sporting clays shooter, who almost always uses a 28 gauge. Good guy.
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You might try 15 grains of Green Dot behind a AA 20 or Orange Duster wad. It takes a 24-25 MEC bushing to achieve this load and the extra bulk should eliminate the need for the felt wad. (This is a published load.)
I have also used 16 grains of IMR PB. (24-25 MEC Bushing) with the same wads. This isn't published but I still have all my fingers and both eyes.
The PB load functioned a couple different 1100 and my Franchi 620. How it would work in an ID gun is a good guess.
I shoot 7/8 oz in the 20 ga. I loaded the 3/4 for my daughter. I own 3 28ga guns so if I feel the need to shoot 3/4 of an oz, I just go down a gauge.
DumbDuck
Using loads that are not in a published powder manufacturer's data book is unwise, at best, unless you've actually sent samples to a reputable testing facility, and know the peak pressure.
Using a load recommended by someone on an internet forum like this, especially one that is not published in a powder manufacturer's data book, is downright stupid.
There are SOOOO many volumes of published, known safe data available, why anyone would go out on their own and use an untested, off the books load is beyond my ability to comprehend.
JMHO
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Cranfield,
E-mails don't work very well with Benelli CS. Better to call them.
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I have some Briley companion tubes in .410 I use in our company skeet league. Our league is handicapped (kinda like a company golf league, so the so-so guys have a chance against the good shooters) and you get a slightly bigger handicap if you use a smaller gauge.
I'm no skeet shooter, that's for sure, but I finshed this league with an 86% average with the .410.
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Mike Allee is one of the best in the KC Metro area. If I can't fix it myself, I take it to Mike.
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Doggone it Buzz, there you go blowing my cover as a shotgun shooting know-it-all. I had these folks all convinced I knew something.
BTW, whomever reads this thread, take Buzz64's word as gospel. He's a Master Class sporting clays shooter.
The rest of us are not worthy ;-)
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oh yeah my record is 350 straight so you can do it with a field gun and ive shot trap for 5 months
I've never shot 350 straight. You should join the ATA and enter some competitions. I'm sure you'll win.
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well i think thats great that you think that. but i still disagree. its funny how you said about the 100 straight and a shoot off when my friend just got a shoot off with 100 straight then hthey shot 50 straight in the shoot off till the next round were the other guy shot 24 with a browning XT and my friend larry got another 25 and one wich gave him 175 striaght with a nova unmodified
Please re-read my post.
I never said you couldn't be successful with a field gun shooting trap. I said there are valid reasons why competition shooters typically don't use field guns.
I also never said there was anything wrong with field guns. Indeed, I have many more field guns than I have competition guns.
But field guns are made for the field, and competition guns are made for competition, and there's a big difference between them, and its not just the price.
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IC, modified, and full. That ought to cover the spectrum of most sporting clays shots.
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Can you shoot trap and be successful with a field 870? Of course you can. As is commonly heard on the trap fields (and skeet and sporting clays) "its the Indian, not the arrow."
But if you think those more expensive guns don't make a difference, you're wrong.
No, they won't make up for poor shooting. A poor shooter will shoot poorly no matter how expensive his equipment.
And its also true, that an excellent shooter will shoot well even with a field gun.
But, that excellent shooter will probably get benefit from using better equipment.
I have a friend who has a 98% singles trap average, and he shoots a nearly unmodified Remington 1100 trap model (he did have some trigger work done on it.)
I have another friend who also has a 98% singles trap average, and he shoots a Perazzi MX-10 with adjustable rib, adjustable comb, an adjustable butt plate, and a precision release trigger.
One cost less than $1000. The other cost more than $5000. Which one is better? Depends on whom you ask.
A fellow named Leo Harrison broke all kinds of trap shooting records with a Remington 1100 (modified with a high rib and adjustable stock, and precision trigger.) He now shoots a Beretta DT-10. Why? Because its a better gun, and he shoots better scores with it.
Heck, I can shoot 25's with my Mossberg 500. Do I want to try to use it in a competition where I'm shooting 100 singles targets, 100 handicap targets, and 100 doubles targets? Heck no!
It has a terrible trigger, and it kicks like a mule, and it doesn't fit me as well as my trap gun. And over the course of 300 or 400 targets in a day, recoil can be a significant factor. A heavy gun that fits well reduces fatigue due to recoil.
And a good trigger is one of those "little" things good guns have that field guns don't, and you don't appreciate it until you shoot a gun with a good trigger for a while.
Field guns are made to take a few hundred shots a year and last forever.
Competition guns are made to closer tolerances and precision, and made out of better materials, to be able to take 10,000 or 20,000 shots a year and last almost forever (with regular maintenance.)
Breaking 25 and announcing you're better than those trap shooters who have expensive guns is fine. But heads up in a big trap competion, where you break 100 straight, and then you have to shoot off against the other guys who also broke 100 straight, is where you really prove your mettle.
Trap shooters don't shoot expensive guns just for show. There's a reason. The reason is, those guns are better guns, and they're made specifically for the game.
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No sweat. Nothing magical about 391's and 1100's, they're just a good gun to get started with. If you don't care for them, there are a lot of other options.
And "better" is a relative term. One man's "better" gun is another man's junk. Better, to me, means a gun that fits you, shoots where you want, feels good in your hands, has a nice crisp, light trigger, and doesn't break down. Regardless of brand. There's also "better" in terms of better materials, better craftsmanship, better wood, etc. Is my friend's $8000 Perazzi MX-15 better than my other friend's $800 Remington 1100? They both shoot about 98% average. Tough call...
I'm not saying you can't shoot trap with a Benelli. You certainly can. I just don't think they're made to be a trap gun. There are, in my opinion, guns better suited for trap. To make my point, in all the registered ATA trap shoots I have attended, I have never seen anyone shooting a Benelli. Never. Lots of Berettas, Remingtons, Brownings, Perazzis, Krieghoffs, Winchesters, and a lot of other names you might not be familiar with, but no Benellis.
I shoot a Zoli (I have one for trap, and another one for skeet & sporting clays.)
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Cynergy Trap, but as you said, they're pricey.
Other options:
Browning Citori Trap
Browning XT Trap
Beretta 682 Gold E Trap
Winchester Select Energy Trap (I think they may have changed the name of this gun recently to Model 101 Trap)
SKB 85 TTS
Used Remington 90T (but its a single shot)
Regarding skeet vs trap. You "can" shoot both games with one gun. The trouble is, if you really get into trap, you find, eventually, there are advantages to having the gun set up to shoot high. Trap targets are rising, and going away from you.
Skeet , and sporting clays too, are games where you "generally" want the gun to shoot flat, or just a tiny bit high.
If you don't HAVE TO buy a gun right away, I suggest you try to attend a few local ATA trap shoots, and look at what the competitive trap shooters are using. If you're polite, and ask nicely, and tell them what you're doing, they might let you shoulder their guns or might even let you shoot a round using their gun.
Yeah, our collegiate shoot isn't as big as the ACUI nationals in San Antonio. they get around 300 shooters. We got 136 shooters this year. We shoot 100 trap singles, 100 trap doubles, 100 skeet, and 100 sporting clays over the course of two days at our event. Think about it for next spring. We usually have it the first weekend in March.
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HD,
I've been shooting registered ATA trap for quite a while.
If I may suggest:
First, used trap guns can be a great value. Think used gun to start, rather than a new gun.
Get a true trap gun if you're going to shoot trap. Sure, you can shoot trap with a field gun, but trap guns work best for trap, and are made for the game.
Novaking mentioned a Beretta 391, and that's excellent advice. Absolutely a great gun for trap. If you choose a 391 though, get a 391 TRAP model with a monte carlo stock and a raised rib! Used ones can be had for a reasonable price. Look for an Optima or Urika Trap.
Another good option is a Remington 1100 or 1187. Again, get a trap model with a monte carlo stock and a stepped rib.
You may not care about recoil now, but if you start shooting more, you will. No need to beat yourself up.
Gas semi-auto's are a little higher maintenance than other guns, but its not terrible. I shot a Remington 1100 for my first couple of years shooting trap. A guy named Leo Harrison broke a lot of trap shooting records with an 1100 before he moved on to a break action. Gas guns are great starter guns, and some day you can move on to a break action...or not. A good friend of mine shoots an 1100 and carries a 98% singles average, a 96.4% doubles average, and is a 27 yard handicap shooter.
If you want to go to an O/U, I would strongly recommend a used Browning Citori trap.
All of the ones I listed are great guns, and they're as common as a Ford Taurus. Lots of them around, and every gunsmith knows how to fix them.
I would not recommend an inertial semi-auto for trap. They are made for hunting, for the most part (though some folks use them for sporting clays.) Generally, they're light and whippy, and heavy on recoil.
A heavy gun does two things for you. It smooths your swing, and it eases recoil, simply due to physics.
Trap is a 12 gauge sport. A 20 gauge will certainly break targets, but you will not find 20 gauge "trap guns." Even if you shoot 7/8 ounce loads in a 12 gauge, its better because you tend to get better patterns out of the larger diameter barrel than the smaller barrel.
The number one biggest key is getting a gun that fits YOU and shoots where you are looking. Start with that.
What school do you shoot for? I help coordinate the 2nd largest collegiate shoot in the country, Shootout at the Crossroads in Lenexa, Kansas.
Tim
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"does the raised comb help with trap and skeet"
Only if you want the gun to shoot a higher POI than it does with a lower comb.
A high POI does help with trap shooting.
A high POI doesn't really help much with skeet shoting.
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Slow burning powder would be my guess. You are correct in that its just not all burned by the time the action opens. Generally, not a problem, but more of an annoyance. You shoudln't notice it during the day in normal sunlight.
When it comes to gunpowder, slow or fast is a relative term. They're probably using a slow powder to get high velocity.
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Don't stare directly at the sun.
Also, take it out to the trap/skeet/sporting clays range, and shoot often. Loosens up the action, AND MAY make you a better wing shooter.
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For shotguns, its a hard sell to me that ported choke tubes do much of anything but make the gun louder.
To be effective (and make no mistake, ports on rifles are effective) the ports have to redirect some of the gases rearward to counteract the rearward motion of the gun.
Since shotgun barrels and choke tubes are pretty thin-walled, there's not much meat in the barrel or the choke tube body to get the the gases moving backwards.
Choke tubes, where the ports are simply straight drilled perpendicular to the barrel centerline, I just don't see how the physics shows they'll do much of any recoil reduction.
The only recoil reduction possible is because some of the gases are moving perpendicular to the barrel instead of axially with the shot/wad. But that percentage of the mass that is leaving the barrel is so small, I can't imagine the recoil reduction due to this can be felt.
Ported barrels CAN reduce barrel rise since the ports on the barrel are usually all on top of the barrel.
But again, ported chokes, since the ports are all around the circumfrence, can't reduce barrel rise. The physics aren't there.
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To add to what doc said, there's no concrete evidence extended choke tubes pattern any better than flush tubes.
All they do for sure is the 3 things doc noted above.
Plus they look cool.
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I think you can have a shotgun with a 14" barrel, IF you have a Class III license.
Anyone shooting 3/4oz loads in their 20ga?
in Shotgun Sports
Posted
"Can we go back to the reasonable man standard here guys?"
"No offense intended, but some of you need to lighten up a bit & tailor your posts to the person you are responding to."
There's nothing in your original or succeeding posts that would lead anyone to the conclusion you know anything at all about reloading, hence the words of caution.