Xtremaman

Sorry for the long delay in the awaited shout back. I got a great excuse though. I have been doing extensive research just to answer your question. You believe me? You better. My clients and I have bagged a dozen Turkeys in the last three days! Now what did we use? Well we used Benelli's, Beretta's, Remington's, Mossberg's and Franchi's. Some auto-loaders some pumps. All in all everyone used some sort of Turkey choke with some sort of prefered shot. At the Pattering board the true results confirmed my naggin arguments against anysort of Remington loads; lead, heavyshot,faststeel, heavysteel and even Hevi-shot! It seems what ever Remington puts out in ammo just plain SUCKS! Federal and Winchester Preformed the best hands down. But guys are guys and in the end they all bagged there Turkeys so trying to tell them Remington ammo, NOT guns suck fell on deaf ears. But the patterin board don't lie! And if you want consistent patterns, no holes or swags that could cause you to doubt your shot, when really it was the ammo, don't shoot Remington, PERIOD! Now Chokes are a funything, no two chokes are alike in any two alike guns. But the best choke there is is the pattern master. Let me tell you why. A client and I were having a chat and the subject of chokes came up. I said there is nothing better than a pattern master. He said his Primos jellyhead was better. Then every one piped in on the matter and before you know it five of us were heading down range with guns and chokes attached to prove our point. Not just Honor was at stake but BEER TOO! The bet was made by me. A Case of beer for the guy who could blow a sheet of 1" plywood in half at forty yards with six shoots! When went to my infamous wood pile and pulled out my next year supply for pit blinds. (I was really stupid, it cost me a $40 a sheet.) I elected to go last. Every guy had his turn. And know one even blew a corner off. I stepped up to the plate batting my 3.5" Extrema with 3.5" 2 1/4 number four winchester Turkey loads and fired off a shoot at 40 yards. The plywood lifted off the tree it was leaning against and fell to the ground. Somebody went back and put back up. Second shoot the same and third like wise. Somebody got a nail and hammer and pinned the sheet to the pine tree. I reloaded and fired again, and again, And that fith shoot did it. The plywood tweaked. My sixth and final shoot split it in two. You could see each shoot tore off all but the very first layer of plywood, there 9 layers in a 1" thick sheet. Needles to say I got a lot of beer and a lot of questions where to get the PatternMaster. It is so good I took a 70yard headshoot today on a big Tom and killed it out right. There was eleven holes in his beak and head, 15 in the neck and more scattered elsewhere, even took of the last joint on his wing. I suggest you get yourself a real goose gun, SP-10, Remington's 10 gauge is awesome! And put a pattern master in it. Or get a Beretta Xtrema 3.5" gun and patternmaster it aswell. Pumps are fine and I shoot them as good as a auto, but they have two set backs. #1 Stubble, mud, and dirt clods can get in between the action bars and jam them up. Autos action bars are fully prtected from debri. #2 Everytime you pump you take yourself briefly off target and you risk short chucking, Auto do not do this! But a lot off autos are inferiorly made and designed, most designs are over a hundred years old. And the best two autos there are, hands down, are Benelli's and Beretta's. But the Beretta is much better than the Benelli in two regards. It kick substaniously less and it is more reliable in cold weather and corrosive elements. But if you can't make the best move you'll ever make in buying a gun then atleast by the Pattern Master. Sold at Sportsmans Wharehouse and Cabela's. If you keep you Benelli pump get the 4.5" long mercry recoil reducer and mounting bracket for your shooulders sake. If you want to pass shoot geese you will soon find out the 10ga. is the only real option. You want to shoot BBB or T shot and use the Pattern Master. It will deliver 100% shot pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. 100% in a 40" circle at 60yds and a wopping 100% in a 60" circle at 100yards! If you shoot 12 gauge 3.5" mags you will need to use BBB and T as well. Forget the Hevi-shot stuff! It is all hype. A client wanted to convince me to switch to it so bad he bought me two cases of 12 gauge, one 3" amd the other 3.5". They shot worse than my Federal Fast steel. Pellets in the Hevi-shot are inconsistent. They range in size from a 7.5 to a BB and you know Remington tried that Duplex stuff back in the early ninties and it sucked too. You need consistent shot size in your load. Now here is a lil' tidbit not often told but highly critical to great patterns. You must shoot a square load. What's a square load? a square load is a load that is symetrically equal. As wide as it is tall. A heavy load of shoot were the column is longer than it is wide will not pattern as good as a lighter load that is equally square. So when shooting a 3.5 12ga. Don't shoot the heavy loads, shoot lighter faster loads, I shoot 1 1/2 oz shoot loads and see better results at 70 and 80 yards on big geese than shooting the heavy 1 9/16 ounce loads. Plus they go faster and have better penetration. I hope this can help you in your quest to humainly and effectively kill more birds. To sum it up. 1. Get a 10ga. for pass shooting. 2. Get a Pattern Master. 3. Get a Xtrema. 4. Shoot Federal or Winchester Ammo. 5. Shoot a Square load. 6. Lead. 7. Follow through. 8. Shoot quiker. 9. shoot again to make sure. 10. AND: Take a kid out hunting with you. Write me again. -Mike

Well not to mention that God Told The Appostle John that a third of all living creatures will die in the last days. So if the last days are here, you better get right with Jesus, Yeshua, Heysus or whatever you call the Son of God! If they are not, well what better way to track the upcoming plague than through bird banding and hunters kill reports. Waterfowlers could prove to be the most valuable element in tracking and containing this flu. I for one would rather it be another hype in a global scare game by the global elitist to control us than the real pandemic nightmare. But if they are going to kill off our waterfowl, then by all means we should do our best to help out. And we better get paid a bounty for every bird we shoot. If they ban hunting then I will be an outlaw and still hunt my birds. I don't know about you all, but for me and my house we sill serve the lord and kill ducks!

Sorry for the long delay in the awaited shout back. I got a great excuse though. I have been doing extensive research just to answer your question. You believe me? You better. My clients and I have bagged a dozen Turkeys in the last three days! Now what did we use? Well we used Benelli's, Beretta's, Remington's, Mossberg's and Franchi's. Some auto-loaders some pumps. All in all everyone used some sort of Turkey choke with some sort of prefered shot. At the Pattering board the true results confirmed my naggin arguments against anysort of Remington loads; lead, heavyshot,faststeel, heavysteel and even Hevi-shot! It seems what ever Remington puts out in ammo just plain SUCKS! Federal and Winchester Preformed the best hands down. But guys are guys and in the end they all bagged there Turkeys so trying to tell them Remington ammo, NOT guns suck fell on deaf ears. But the patterin board don't lie! And if you want consistent patterns, no holes or swags that could cause you to doubt your shot, when really it was the ammo, don't shoot Remington, PERIOD! Now Chokes are a funything, no two chokes are alike in any two alike guns. But the best choke there is is the pattern master. Let me tell you why. A client and I were having a chat and the subject of chokes came up. I said there is nothing better than a pattern master. He said his Primos jellyhead was better. Then every one piped in on the matter and before you know it five of us were heading down range with guns and chokes attached to prove our point. Not just Honor was at stake but BEER TOO! The bet was made by me. A Case of beer for the guy who could blow a sheet of 1" plywood in half at forty yards with six shoots! When went to my infamous wood pile and pulled out my next year supply for pit blinds. (I was really stupid, it cost me a $40 a sheet.) I elected to go last. Every guy had his turn. And know one even blew a corner off. I stepped up to the plate batting my 3.5" Extrema with 3.5" 2 1/4 number four winchester Turkey loads and fired off a shoot at 40 yards. The plywood lifted off the tree it was leaning against and fell to the ground. Somebody went back and put back up. Second shoot the same and third like wise. Somebody got a nail and hammer and pinned the sheet to the pine tree. I reloaded and fired again, and again, And that fith shoot did it. The plywood tweaked. My sixth and final shoot split it in two. You could see each shoot tore off all but the very first layer of plywood, there 9 layers in a 1" thick sheet. Needles to say I got a lot of beer and a lot of questions where to get the PatternMaster. It is so good I took a 70yard headshoot today on a big Tom and killed it out right. There was eleven holes in his beak and head, 15 in the neck and more scattered elsewhere, even took of the last joint on his wing. I suggest you get yourself a real goose gun, SP-10, Remington's 10 gauge is awesome! And put a pattern master in it. Or get a Beretta Xtrema 3.5" gun and patternmaster it aswell. Pumps are fine and I shoot them as good as a auto, but they have two set backs. #1 Stubble, mud, and dirt clods can get in between the action bars and jam them up. Autos action bars are fully prtected from debri. #2 Everytime you pump you take yourself briefly off target and you risk short chucking, Auto do not do this! But a lot off autos are inferiorly made and designed, most designs are over a hundred years old. And the best two autos there are, hands down, are Benelli's and Beretta's. But the Beretta is much better than the Benelli in two regards. It kick substaniously less and it is more reliable in cold weather and corrosive elements. But if you can't make the best move you'll ever make in buying a gun then atleast by the Pattern Master. Sold at Sportsmans Wharehouse and Cabela's. If you keep you Benelli pump get the 4.5" long mercry recoil reducer and mounting bracket for your shooulders sake. If you want to pass shoot geese you will soon find out the 10ga. is the only real option. You want to shoot BBB or T shot and use the Pattern Master. It will deliver 100% shot pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. 100% in a 40" circle at 60yds and a wopping 100% in a 60" circle at 100yards! If you shoot 12 gauge 3.5" mags you will need to use BBB and T as well. Forget the Hevi-shot stuff! It is all hype. A client wanted to convince me to switch to it so bad he bought me two cases of 12 gauge, one 3" amd the other 3.5". They shot worse than my Federal Fast steel. Pellets in the Hevi-shot are inconsistent. They range in size from a 7.5 to a BB and you know Remington tried that Duplex stuff back in the early ninties and it sucked too. You need consistent shot size in your load. Now here is a lil' tidbit not often told but highly critical to great patterns. You must shoot a square load. What's a square load? a square load is a load that is symetrically equal. As wide as it is tall. A heavy load of shoot were the column is longer than it is wide will not pattern as good as a lighter load that is equally square. So when shooting a 3.5 12ga. Don't shoot the heavy loads, shoot lighter faster loads, I shoot 1 1/2 oz shoot loads and see better results at 70 and 80 yards on big geese than shooting the heavy 1 9/16 ounce loads. Plus they go faster and have better penetration. I hope this can help you in your quest to humainly and effectively kill more birds. To sum it up. 1. Get a 10ga. for pass shooting. 2. Get a Pattern Master. 3. Get a Xtrema. 4. Shoot Federal or Winchester Ammo. 5. Shoot a Square load. 6. Lead. 7. Follow through. 8. Shoot quiker. 9. shoot again to make sure. 10. AND: Take a kid out hunting with you. Write me again. -Mike

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WILD GAME ANYMORE, as long as we have government agencys handling it. Obviously you and I care more about it than they do. It's all about the revenue my friends.

Goose I love Raw! Duck, well lets say I have dozen recipes to hide the liver flavour, and there is always the butcher shop to turn it into Pepperoni.

Also about the PLUG in your gun. It's there, installed by the factory, to limit you to a total of 3 shots. That is the federal law on the number of shots you can use to take waterfowl, some states alos limit you to 3 shots for upland game birds and turkeys too. In Montana we have, of course the 3-shot rule for waterfowl, but for upland, turkey and deer we can have Three or twenty shots in the gun if we want!

My experience with Nova made my shoulder aching for a AUTO. But besides that I would like to say that the best investment you can make right now is a Benelli Mercury Recoil Reducer and Stock Kit. Trust me you'll thank me every shot you will take afterwards. There is a world of difference between a 1 1/8 oz trap load and 2oz Turkey load. When you get your Scope you'll want to sight it in with the ammo you will use for both Turkey and Deer. So you'll have to take aim shots shooting that 2 oz lead snaught beating Turkey load. Or the Smokin Hot 1oz Slug Sabot. Then that's when the Mercury Recoil Reducer saves you and makes you a better shot. You want be flinching on a big Tom or Buck! About the Scope thing; GO FOR IT! I have several shotguns, twenty-two or so. Some have extra slug barrels, most don't. I have a Rem.870 Magnun that Winchester rifled slugs (the rifling is on the slug, not in the barrel: If you use them in a Rifled slug barrel they'll hurt you and the gun) Through my smoth bore(no-rifiling) deer barrel thosed rifled slugs give me impressive 3" groups at 125 yds. So maybe you should look into a good shotgun rifled slug and try it in your exhisitng barrel ONLY with Modified, preferbly Improved Cylinder chokes, NEVER with a FULL Choke in your gun. The best Buckshot and Turkey Chokes are made by Primos(Jelly Head) or for Buckshot and any birdshot bigger than 2's go with a Pattermaster choke! For Turkey hunting I am a lil' unconventional, You see I guide Hunt and allow the clients to kill the birds. Usually they use a 3" or 3.5" #5 or #4 lead shot load with some kind of ultra tight XXXTRA-FULL choke. I am usually there to spot and call in the Tom's. Sometimes a client will wound a reallly nice bird, 10+inch bird. And I will have to finish it off. Well #4 in a realllly tight choke is great for a head shot at 10 to 40 yards. But trying to line up that Gobblers neck with him running 30+MPH is not a easy endeavor. So I use a Patternmaster with 3" lead BB's. The Patternmaster which actually is not a choke at all, it just grabs the wad away from the shot column and that gives the shot the ability to sustain 90% patterens at 40yds in a 40inch circle. IMPRESIVE! Anyways this DEADLY DUO has claimed Quite a few first shot wing and running kills on wounded birds. Stick with the gun you know and stay attuned to the economical costs you might run into trying to configure one gun to do to many things. Slug Barrel retail=$365 Scope retail=$50 to $300 Scope Mount=$50 TOTAL________ $$710.00 That's more than two Benelli Nova's put together at full retail. Now you know why I have so many Shotguns and not to mention that same nuber of Rifles. You can get a Factory Benelli Nova Deer Slayer for about $425 W/O scope, but has scope rail and riled barrel. Food $$$$$$$$ for thought! -Mike

The original topic was about what loads are being shot at waterfowl. I think of two things mentioned here that must be addressed that have been hawed at, but not seriously addressed. Why we use the loads we do! I think that a lot of your complaints are due more to consistentency and reliability problems. #1 If you got the right gun/choke combo. #2 what conditions and birds are you shooting in and at. The #1 thing is to successively kill that bird and get in the blind. A GOOD smothbore and a GOOD dog are the #1 ingredients to this. Back to your reliability issues. I have my favorite shells and you have yours, but I think there is not a shell on the market that is worse than Remington, why? Because of the awful powder they use. It's horrible! It does not burn complete and has lots of filler in it that will gum up MOST guns and the debri from unburnt filler gets in your eyes. Does this mean it does not kill ducks and geese, NO! It does, but we are talking about reliability issues a lot on this thread. I think that if you guys would shoot guns with chrome lined bores you would be better off. Why? Then 90% of the problems you are having will be non-issues! I shoot the most reliable auto there is, more reliable than pumps and two barrels. I shoot the Beretta Xtrema. I Guide waterfowl hunters all season long, day-in and day-out. I see every gun and every shotshell made being used on my hunts. All guns have issues, EXCEPT the Xtrema, PERIOD! Secondly The shells that should be shot should be shells that have a consistent history of out performing all other shells. Federal and Winchester are the ones, HANDS DOWN! On what size shot you should use; Speaking only on steel shot, NOW! (Remember birds at 20yds will be at 50yds by your third shot) NO SUCH THING as a load for decoying. That's a MYTH. You can shoot 5 out of 7 birds in your limit within 30yds, but most likely the last two will be at 40+. I consistently make clean kills with my shells at 30 to 75+ yds on all species. Big Honkers= never smaller than BBB, (T's are the ticket for 3" and 3.5" shooters) Small Geese= BB's or larger (BBB's in 3.5" for long gunin' guys). Mallards and big divers= never smaller than 3's (BB's are the ticket for guys with 3.5" guns and 1's are the killer for guys with 3" guns. They'll kill'em way out there boys). Small ducks and divers= Never smaller than 4's (YES! they make 6's and 7's, only good for finish kills on the water, infact I always keep a handful of 6's to slouse any cripple that I see) You can use 2's but you better be shooting a 3", or better yet a 3.5" smoothbore. Well here's my verdict! My Beretta will handle any load you have mentioned, Fiochi and Wolf included, without a hick-up. My all time favorite Steel Shot Loads are Federal Premiums and Winchester Premiums, Boys, I buy them by the case (1,000rds.) each season. I've got to tell you though that there are only two loads in my vest. 3.5" 2's and T's. On the Rare occasion I will just shoot BB's. AT EVERYTHING! It's to big for Teal and Woodducks and to small for the 747's, but somedays I am so on, it don't matter. Besides I am usually the back-up batter on the flock, being the guide and all. I HATE seeing guys, AND I HATE the guys that shoot 2's and 1's at the big Geese. It should be a crime and a penalty in the Reg's. I watch a lot of Dads and Husbands sacrifice our precious Geese by allowing there kids and wives to use undersize shot and demunitive gauges. LOOK BOYS! We got to preserve our hunting by being ethical. And shooting small size Steel Shot is WRONG! PERIOD! You got to repect these critters, they are flying 3,000 miles so you can blast them, well do them justice and kill the **** birds the first two shots. 4's and 1's on a body shot on a Goose or even a Mallard just won't kill them for the first mile. OH' they'll die but not in our spread and none us will count it as part of our bag limit will we? So be the ethical hunter and don't cheat the birds and us. -Mike