Mudhen, you are correct, I did not mention anything about a Remington 870, and there is a good reason for that, here is a shot story about an 870 that you might find funny. Note: I am not new to hunting or shooting. I orginally bought an 870, purchased several different loads and was excited to pattern my new gun. After the first shot nearly rattled my teeth out I thought that maybe I just did not have a tight enough hold on the gun, next shot, pulled the gun tight to my shoulder, squeeze trigger, gun goes boom and after stars fad from sight check target, gun patterend well, I shot that gun about 20 times that day, the next day my right arm was black and blue from my shoulder to my wrist. The guy that talked me into buying this gun I had him shot it since he has the same gun, he only shot it one time and said that it kicked like a mule. I sold that gun 2 day later for half of what I paid for it and went and bought the Nova.