MeanGreen

Hookster, that is exactely where I was having the fit issue. Believe me, I used my full weight trying to get the barrel to sit flush against the receiver, but there are still about a milimeter gap. I compared the orginal forend to the KZ forend and it looked like it was about a milimeter or so longer. Looks like yours fits perfectly. Maybe there was just a variance in the one I ordered. Yours looks great.

Just to be safe. I pulled my old robot costume from the 4th grade out of the garage. The one made of boxes and covered in tin foil. I think this along with the tin foil hat should keep the telepathic mind waves deflected. Besides my son likes the idea that his dad looks like a robot.

Anyone ever heard of Freedom Fighter Tactical or ordered anything from them? http://www.freedomfightertactical.com/ I just saw their add on gunbroker for a full length mag tube for the M4 for $139 but noticed they didn't have any feedback yet. Looks like they have a decent FL mag tube for the M4 and debating weather or not to get one or wait for Kip's mag tube. Or I could probably just buy a mag tube from DMW for $60 and wait till I get Kip's.

Kip, I apologize for being too dense. Just so I understand, I put in an order at carriercomp.com about two days ago on Aug 9th. Obviously this is after your 7/11 dead line, so would I be put on the wait list for a tube or will you contact me in the future when you can meet demand or how would it work? You stated "Any orders placed AFTER July 11, 2009 will remain on our store ledger, and be honored in the order received when we resume full production capabilities."

Hookster, I received my KZ forearm today and tried to put it on my M4. It seems like its milimeter to long. I compared it to the the stock forearm and it looks about a milimeter longer. I could not get the barrel to sit flush against the receiver as I could with the stock forearm. I might just take a grinder to it and it will probably fit fine. Aside from this, I think the forearm looks great. If it fit flush I probably wouldn't have any complaints with it at all. Its light, looks great on the M4 and does not feel like you are holding a pringles can. I am not sure what the Surefire would feel like or if the fit is better. But I am looking forward to your review of the Surefire once you get it. Additional Note 9/24/09: I found out the fit issue wasn't with the KZ Forend, but with my M4. Had the same issue when putting on a Surefire forend. I ended up filing down the magazine clamp. Now it fits fine.

Hookster, thanks for the great review. I also just ordered the KZ forearm. It looks good in the pictures and heard about how big the Surefire forearm felt also. I am doing the same thing as you, printing out the webpages that state Made in the USA since most parts don't say Made in the USA right on them. I got a DMW follower from brownell's but no mention of it being made in US on the website, even though I am sure Dave's stuff is all made in the US. I was thinking of just writing him a letter and asking him to tell me if its US made or not. I think this might be the only way to do it. I am also keeping all my receipts along with the printed web pages. Any reasonable person (judge or jury) would have to conclude that you have made every concievable effort to ensure everything you bought was made in the U.S.A. this way. Now just waiting for my FL tube from Carriercomp ordered mine a couple of days ago. I did notice the brushed titanium tubes actually did have Made in the USA stamped on them. Don't know if this is the case with all of them since some of them have the coating on them.

Socomguy, Do you have any tubes available? I'd like to get one if you do.

I was looking at the KZ Benelli M4 Quad Rail forend, its U.S. made and costs a bit less than the Surefire forend. Does anyone have any experience with it? http://www.botachtactical.com/kzm4.html I agree though, it would be nice to have a U.S. made forend that looked similiar to the stock forend. The only one I have seen that looks remotely close to the stock forend is one made by FAB arms, but those are made in Israel I presume.

When I first called my local ATF office, the investigator that didn't know much about 922r compliance, transfered me on the phone to the Firearms Technology Branch where I spoke with someone "official". And that was the person that told me to send the letter to the West Virginia address. I think the DC address on the letter head may just ATF generic letter head. But I guess go with whatever they told you. Also in regards to, 'should we comply to 11 or 13 parts' or 'who cares about 922 r compliance they never convict anyone'. I wrote this letter to the ATF so that my conscience is clear when I put on my full length mag tube. I have two little boys and a wife and the last thing I want to do is come anywhere within a 1000 miles of commiting a felony for two extra rounds. That being said I absolutely think we should still fight against ridiculous gun restrictions, like the 1968 law only allowing the importation of "sporting arms". But at the same time following the law as it is written currently. That's just my 2 cents.

Hookerster and ShadowShooter, the West Viriginia address on Needy Way is the address for the Firearms Technology Branch, which is the correct one to send your request to. You may even want to call your local ATF office so that they can give you the phone number to this branch. Actually, I think when they gave me the phone number for the Technology Branch, they gave me the direct number to the Chief that responded to my letter. I didn't put the actual address in my letters because I wasn't sure if I should. I don't think its a secret or anything. But if you call your local ATF office, they'll give you the actual address which Hookster has. But I had the zip code as 25405 not 25401. Any way call your local ATF office and get the info from them for certain.

Exactly why getting your own letter from the ATF is important. I too saw that other letter from the ATF stating there were 11 imported parts on the Benelli M4 online. Now my letter says there are 13. Get it in writting and you can show you did your due diligence in trying to follow the law.

I am going to do exactly that. I'll have my original letter, the ATF response letter and all my receipts in a cryogenic tube next to Michael Jackson.

Please read my original request to understand the context of his responses Original Request to ATF: http://i25.tinypic.com/2u7xdzn.jpg[/url] ATF Response pg 1 http://i30.tinypic.com/sxhn2r.jpg ATF Response pg 2 http://i26.tinypic.com/etwkkn.jpg

Sorry ShadowShooter, I put that list up in a hurry. I just edited the response you should see Forearm as # 11 in the list of 13. It took about 6 weeks for them to respond.

Also, my letter will not protect you if you are confronted by an ATF agent or some other LE officer. The person at the Technology Branch was very clear that I should hold onto this letter addressed to me as if it were pure gold. I would say if you are really interested in protecting yourself to write them a letter clearly stating that you want to add a mag tube, follower and forearm and ask them to state whether or not it is legal, then put that letter in your safe next to your shotgun for safe keeping.

Here is a list of the parts that the Chief listed. 1) Receiver 2) Barrel 3) Bolt 4) Bolt Carrier 5) Gas Piston 6) Trigger Housing 7) Trigger 8) Hammer 9) Disconnector 10) Buttstocks 11) Forearm 12) Magazine body 13) Followers Since I still can't figure out how to add an attachement here is the text of my letter. " Dear Chief of the ATF Firearms Technology Branch, I own a Benelli M4 Super 90 Semi-automatic shotgun (model #11707) here is a link for reference to the shotgun on Benelli’s website: Had a link here I also included a picture of the exact shotgun I own. Had a picture here. It currently holds five 2”3/4 inch shells or four 3”inch shells. I wanted to add a full length U.S. made magazine tube along with a U.S. made follower. The U.S. made full length magazine tube would hold seven 2”3/4 inch shells or six 3”inch shells. I want to be within 922® compliance, which is the reason for my letter. I am not sure of the number of imported parts the Benelli M4 has. I have read that the ATF considers the M4 to have 11 imported parts. But I wanted to make sure that is correct. I have three main questions, I apologize for the repetition but I just want to make sure I am complying with the law. 1. Can you list the number of imported parts that the M4 contains? 2. Is it legal to add a U.S. made full length magazine tube provided that I have no more than 10 imported parts? 3. Provided that it is legal, if I add a U.S. made full length magazine tube and a U.S. made follower would I be within compliance for maintaining my Benelli M4 within the law? If not, would adding a third U.S. made part, such as a forearm, bring me within compliance? If these 3 U.S. made parts would still not put me into compliance, what is the total number of U.S. made parts I would need to add in order to legally install a full length magazine tube that would hold seven 2”3/4 inch shells?" And here is the ATF's response to question #3, the most important question. "Answer: No-replacing the orgininal 4-round magazine with a US Made magazine (that is, (1) magazine body, (2) follower) would reduce the number of imported parts (as tabulated in 478.39) in your Benelli M4 shotgun to 11. You would still be required to replace at least one additional imported part with US made parts to further reduce the number of to the acceptable maximum (10). Please check to make sure that using a detachable magazine with a capacity exceeding five rounds does not violate any applicable State or local ordinances." My questions to him probably could have been clearer. I was first trying to see if I could just replace two parts to be in compliance (mag tube & follower) vs. three (mag tube, follower & forearm). Looks like it has to be three which thankfully you can get. I already have a Dave's Metal works follower and will get a full length mag tube from Socom guy or Carriercomp and then a forearm from Surefire and then I'll be set. I don't know if I'll be able to email the letter to everyone, I am still going to try and see if I can upload it. If not I'll try and post it on AR15.com, I am pretty sure that I can do it there and then provide everyone with the link.

I recently received back a letter from the ATF's Chief of Firearms Technology in West Virginia regarding the legality under 922 r of putting a full length magazine tube on a Benelli M4, the same Benelli M4 that has the pistol grip stock. I was completely confused by all the stuff posted on the internet by everyone who has their own opinion and everyone will give you a different answer. But this shouldn't come as a surprise when you try and call your local ATF branch to talk to a Special Agent to get an answer and find out that most agents don't know what 922r is or how it applies. Thankfuly I spoke to an humble agent that told me she didn't know what 922 r was and refered me to the Firearms Technology Branch in West Virginia. Upon talking with someone, who I think may have been the chief that ended up responding to my letter, his warning was that since there are many zealous new agents out there that don't know how 922 r applies, that the best thing to do was to write in and get a response in writting. And then hold onto this letter like it was made of gold. I have to stress the reason for the letter is for my own protection against law enforcement agents that do not correctly interpret the law. I know that most people think it maybe stirring up some interest by the ATF into people that want to change their M4's, but when talking with the person in the Technology branch his response was more like "I do these letters for lots of M4 owners to protect them from zealous agents." This letter clearly states that there are 13 imported parts (contradicting another letter I've seen online that stated 11) and that it is legal to add a full length mag tube or extension greater than 4 rounds provided that you add three US made parts to get to the magic "No more than 10 imported parts" I can't figure out how to attach the files. Everytime I click on 'Manage Attachments', it tells me "you have uploaded the maximum amount of 1 files". I have already scanned them in as PDFs so that I can share them. So if someone can give me any tips I'll attach them. EDITED AFTER POST #17 SINCE I NOW HAVE THE LETTERS POSTED: Please read my original request to understand the context of his responses Original Request to ATF: http://i25.tinypic.com/2u7xdzn.jpg ATF Response pg 1 http://i30.tinypic.com/sxhn2r.jpg ATF Response pg 2 http://i26.tinypic.com/etwkkn.jpg Here is a list of the parts that the Chief listed in the letter for quick reference. 1) Receiver 2) Barrel 3) Bolt 4) Bolt Carrier 5) Gas Piston 6) Trigger Housing 7) Trigger 8) Hammer 9) Disconnector 10) Buttstocks 11) Forearm 12) Magazine body 13) Followers

If you still see this in the 1968 code you should also see that is no longer in affect later on in the text. Due to the sunset of the AWB in 2004. Otherwise it would be completely illegal for Mossberg to be selling its 930 SPX with pistol grip to the public. I also read this same text somewhere on the internet and decided to research it myself. Yes in some copies online you will still see the 5 round/pistol grip limit, but the text should also have an ammendement that it has been sunset with the end of the 1994 AWB.

Forgive me I am new here and I know that this topic has been covered ad infinitum, but if you replace the original 5 round mag (10)(numbering from second ATF letter) with a US made full length 7 round mag tube and the original follower (11) with a US made follower. Wouldn't this bring you down below the "no more than 10 imported parts" issue? It looks like from this ATF letter that they consider the M4 to only have 11 imported parts. I have seen similiar letters on other forums also stating that the ATF only considers the M4 to only have 11 imported parts. So replacing the follower and mag with US made parts even though it no longer complies with the import laws, should be considered legal. Even with the pistol grip stock that it comes with, since that is considered parts numbers (7) and (8) above. Maybe I am over simplfying things here, but that's what it seems to say. So taking the list above and starting with 11 imported parts, you replace 1 magazine and 1 follower with US made parts. Leaving you an M4 with 9 imported parts and 2 US made parts. Then logically it should be legal even with the standard option pistol grip stock parts (7) and (8), even though the mag is more than 5 rounds. It sounds like from 922® that it would be illegal to reassemble, from more than 10 imported parts, a gun that could not be legally imported. But it is legal to "reassemble" an imported gun, with US made parts, that does not comply with the import laws, as long as it does not consist or more than 10 imported parts. Again, maybe I am just missing something but thats what it seems the law says. Do people disagree with this letter that the M4 has more than 11 imported parts and that there are more?