TKTM
-
Posts
127 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by TKTM
-
-
The only people who don't have to worry about it are the criminals, and likely they only person who would ever be convicted of a 922r violation is some innocent schmuck who did nothing else wrong but somehow came to the attention of the authorities.
-
Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up. Aside from your assertion that KB Fab might have hoarded the remaining inventory which was probably harmless sarcasm,
I don't know what KB Fab's issue is, he seems to be trying to "win" something, what that something is I don't know. Heck,I'm just sharing information with fellow Benelli enthusiasts so they don't miss out on getting a needed 922r part . It makes no sense to me why that action would be attacked by KB Fab, especially when he went out and acted on that information.
The whole situation did make me curious as to what his angle is/was. After all he believed the info enough to buy the hammer without even asking what the source of the info was, yet he goes out of his way to try and convince others that the info is debunked? Its either just weird or a maneuver for position of some sort; that is why I asked if he was trying to corner the market on the remaining stock.
But, maybe some good will come out of it,if demand picks up and they make another batch of hammers.
-
Did you record KB's convo with Geissele? Because your inquiry conveys contrived portions no one here is privvy to.
No, I just comprehended what he wrote in the previous thread, I'll emphasize the key part for you in this quote BELOW from KB Fab.
Spoke with a nice gentleman at Geissele this morning who said that as far as he knows, there isn't any plan to discontinue the M4 hammer. That said, he also stated that there weren't any plans to produce a trigger group for the M4 due to the fact that design/production costs wouldn't justify whatever demand there would be. -
TKTM that is a stretch...
TKTM your use of tarot cards has undermined your reading comprehension.
Maybe you should RE-comprehend what I originally posted:
"I was told "G" still has some stock, but they won't make more because of lack of demand; nor will they make other trigger parts for the very same reason. So what is out there is all there will be, unless there is a huge upswing in demand."
There is no tarot involved on my part, I'm just sharing what I was told by a knowledgeable source.
-
TKTM that is a stretch...
TKTM your use of tarot cards has undermined your reading comprehension.
Maybe you should RE-comprehend what I originally posted:
There is no tarot involved on my part, I'm just sharing what I was told by a knowledgeable source.
-
Thank you. I spoke with someone at Geissele who told me that there were no plans to discontinue the hammer so I feel with that, and the back order/listing status like you mentioned, a confidence that it isn't going anywhere.
.
Why now leave out the part now where the sales person at Geissele said "as far as I know" in response to your question?
Why is that you ran out and bought a hammer(s) based on the information I provided, but now you don't seem to want others to do the same?
Frankly the animosity makes no sense in and of itself, it makes me wonder if there is something more going on. Exactly how many M4 hammers did you buy? Maybe I should have tried to corner the market too instead of giving people here a heads up they were about to dry out?
-
KB Fab, So you don't want me to respond when YOU make incorrect assertations about information that I posted? Now not only is that discourtous on your part, but it also takes some gall.TKTM, please don't post in my threads anymore and I'll give you the same courtesy. I really don't want any more interaction with you.I'm not sure why you are so hard up to disprove the information I supplied about Gesselli not having enough demand to support further production, especially when you rushed out to buy a hammer based on the information I provided.
If we set aside the fact that you ran out and bought an M4 hammer based on the information I provided, and assume that your so called "debunking" is not driven by some sort of other desire; maybe your "debunking" would have gone better if you had inquired as to the source of the information I provided. Strange you didn't ask about that?
-
Kip and Geissele. Go back to your own thread and look at posts number 10 and 14.
Actually your post "#14" confirmed 1/2 of what I was told, ie "there are no plans to make any other M4 fire control parts"; The part about the hammers no longer being under production, you were unable to confirm or deny. The funny part is that your "debunking" was immediately followed up with every website showing "out of stock"
Based on what I was told, and what Cleefurd has posted; the last remaining stock of M4 hammers are on their way to Carriercomp. The only way there will be more after that is IF there is enough demand to restart production; apparently Geissele does not expect that demand to happen.
-
Upon hearing the news that Geissele was going to stop producing the M4 hammer, which has now been debunked btw,
Who debunked it and how?
-
Per my discussion with Benelli reps, the NP3 coating process is part of the manufacturing that allows the M4 to pass 922r.
The one H2O I have handled (without ammo) seemed pretty smooth; the charging handle did stick back one time on it, as I was manually cycling the action. My impression was the H20 needs a bit of a break-in period. The one additional thing I did check for was if the handguards had the same slip and squeak that the FFT handguards have. I did notice a bit of slip, but no squeak.
-
Our most recent order for their hammers was sorted out last week with a Geissele rep. via phone and email.
Also sorting out disconnectors too (Previously Geissele encouraged and suggested how we might source those ourselves... working out details)
We already have several prototype disconnectors, but they are not marked yet. From shaping to heat treat it is much more feesible to laser etch/mark afterwards, so we are sourcing either an in house CO2 laser, or subcontract. Its the little details that tend to bottleneck a project. Slow and steady....
Hopefully you can bulk order enough hammers to keep those of us interested in 922r compliance supplied. Since Geissele doesn't have enough demand to meet their inventory holding costs to justify the continued stocking of the hammer, that leaves you with the inventory costs of a bulk order. I can only guess that means you will have to raise your prices.
Since Geissele is not doing the disconnectors and you seem to indicate that you might do them in house, does that mean you might bring the "Geissele" hammer (for lack of a better term) back in house too?
-
Then why does CC show it as "Temporarily" out of stock and Geissele still allow you to order it directly from their site? In fact, I just ordered one.
I was told "G" still has some stock, but they won't make more because of lack of demand; nor will they make other trigger parts for the very same reason. So what is out there is all there will be, unless there is a huge upswing in demand.
-
I have it from a knowledgeable source that Geissele did not see enough demand for their US made Benelli M4 hammer. As a result, they are no longer under production and there are no plans to make any other M4 fire control parts.
-
This is my dream arsenal
and
-
any one else here having disappearing posts on this thread?
-
You pretty much make my point here, I want real data, not pure speculation that a questionable aftermarket US made NP3 coated part is a Benelli factory second part or there is a connection between both parts and that they are inferior.
If there was no speculation no one might ever check, but now that it has been speculated hopefully someone will put some rounds down a H20 and take pictures of the hammer for indications of deformation.
And along those same lines, BM4robbins, has got a lead to see if the parts are of the same production.
The important thing is that speculation is on the side of shooter safety.
-
You're all over the place with this, please stop.
If your willing to risk your life on changes to a weapon without exploring the risks, that is one thing; but it is completely another to ask others not to do the same. What is your motivation?
Why would a company, FFT in this case, sell consumers a product that they knew did not meet the specifications of the manufacturer? Or worse, why would that manufacturer resell components they knew did not pass factory tests? Do you really believe that a company would be that dumb or underhanded in a community as tight knit as this one?
I guess you did not read what I wrote; but let it me put it this way: I don't think HK was being less than reputable when they sold me a pistol without a properly heat treated slide. Nor do I think that numerous US made trigger groups for other weapons, which also had issues, where a sign of ill repute with those companies.
-
You really think Benelli is installing "soft triggers" into the M4 H2O, essentially the same M4 that they have been building for the US Military since 1999?
As has been pointed out they are not exactly the same gun, and I certainly hope that Benelli is doing the required quality control testing. But getting heat treatment right, and catching it when its wrong, is something that befuddles many companies; heck I even once had a slide on an HK USP9 that was improperly heat treated and failed as a result.
My GUESS is that the parts FFT is selling are ones that did not meet Benelli's quality control requirements; and, that the company that made those parts doesn't want the resultant quality issues to tarnish their reputation, hence the secrecy surrounding the manufacturer.
BUT THAT IS ALL A GUESS, "US made" 922r fire 'trigger parts' have had issues in all sorts of weapons. It would not shock me if the H20 parts are soft too. The key is to be aware of the situation and possibilities and not unnecessarily alter any weapon your life may rely on.
-
And maybe aliens made the hammers and gave them to FFT in an effort to thwart properly operating shotguns?
I don't think it is a good idea to be purely speculating on this.
When you have limited information to make a proper decision, the best one can do is speculate and rank the risks/likelihoods. Right now, for me, that means staying away from all the FFT trigger parts until more is known about the 'soft' metal issue and other Quality control issues; it also makes me hold off on an H20 until more is known regarding if they have a 'soft' USA trigger group issue too.
-
Maybe the supplier secrecy is because these parts are the 'also rans' for the M4 H20?
The reported soft hammer, and potential axle hole misalignment reported here
http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php/28603-M4-Disconnector-Problem
combined with reports of the parts being NP3 coated, causes me to make a WILD ASSED GUESS that these may be parts are 3rd party supplier parts that did not pass QC for a M4 H20 delivery. ON THE OTHER HAND, it also makes me wonder if the M4 H20 itself might have 'soft' US trigger parts.
Hopefully someone will clear the confusion soon.
-
That's why I was confused (newbie). Now I realize that the list on FFT only has the 13 parts relevant to the Benelli M4.
The list I received from the ATF is the all inclusive parts list.
And yes, this topic has been beaten to a pulp but, it's still confusing. I couldn't get a straight answer from the ATF regarding the Surefire M80 Forend. There are vendors that have a "Made in the USA" flag on this product and yet Surefire sent me an email stating that they are not compliant to "Made in the USA" they are "American Act" compliant. Because the rubber rail covers are made elsewhere.
So, would this add an extra part to the list? It's still confusing.
Wouldn't it be nice if the criminals actually had to worry about this sort of stuff?
-
Since the OP has disavowed the thread I won't feel bad about pointing out that the US government pays $29.60 for a full length M4 tube directly from Benelli.
-
Doesn't the ATF shotgun study reduce the number of needed 922r parts by 1 ?, ie the pistolgrip is now allowed for import
-
Is his PM box full? Shoot him an offer and if it's realistic he might go for it. This site is not an equipment exchange and thus "has no rules" except federal/state regarding how WTS threads are conducted. If OP wants to conduct an "auction" he can do it unless the mods delete it. May piss a few people off/be annoying to some, but it looks like it's spawned a little more interest than the last WTS thread.
I think "truthfulness" would be a golden rule; and a post with the following title "...for sale - UPDATED PRICE/INFO" but which contains no actual price in the post smacks of untruthfulness.
Geissele Automatics Benelli M4 hammer in stock at Brownells
in Benelli
Posted
My guess is that they weren't selling enough of them to keep the product viable and they didn't want to keep paying the inventory holding costs on a product that was not selling well. So, they expanded the number of vendors carrying them in-order to move them out of their inventory books, and hopefully increase demand for the product via the new outlets.
But, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, I was told Geissele did not have enough demand to keep making the M4 hammer (although they could restart IF demand increased) and there were no plans to make the other fire control parts for the same reason. For reasons unknown to me, sharing this information has created a great deal animosity with certain individuals on this site; fortunately you got your hammer while you still could.