dport

Bump, to see if there is an update.

Nice. I don't use a safety. Being a lefty it isn't convient. I just keep the gun in Cond III until ready to use.

M4Madness, They didn't get the letter.

Daily bump.

It's a weekday, so I guess I'll bump. I'm tempted to sell the Benelli to buy a Saiga-12. There are US parts kits out there, so you can have a naughty version. And there are 8 round mags out there to be had. It's soooo tempting.

Daily bump.

Benelli has stated publically that buying the LE version of the M4 and putting the telestock on was legal. Well maybe they didn't say it was legal, but they did tell us how to get a telestock and what versions of the M4 it would work on. A member here wrote the ATF for confirmation. The ATF said it was illegal. Benelli could have dropped it there, but they asked for a faxed copy of the letter. The member faxed the copy. And we are here because Benelli hasn't gotten back to us. This affects them as much as it does us because it determines which versions of the M4 can be imported. The least they can do is tell us what is legal for them to import and in what configurations, so we can cover our butts. They are the ones who implied it was legal to add the telestock.

Bumped to get attention to this.

Benelli? Any word yet?

Benelli, it is a new week. What's the word?

Benelli has M4's letter, so what is the reaction BenelliUSA?

M4, Has Benelli figured this out yet?

dport, you almost sound like you WANT this to happen. That is rank speculation on your part , unless you know something we don't. What "already prohibited shotgun"??? The statute says "identical". Not "substantially similar" or "functionally equivalent." Am I being overly optimistic here, or are you being overly pessimistic? I cannot find a single piece of information that would suggest that the M4/M1014 has ever been characterized as non-sporting, But, even if ATF were to make such a ridiculous determination tomorrow, it would not predate either the importation or modification of MY GUN. And I feel good about that... Moral of the story: Buy now and modify as quickly as possible, especially before Kerry wins. No I don't want it to happen. I'm being realistic here. There is a ton of wishful thinking going on here and on ARF.com. Let's face it, if the .gov wants to rule a configuration as non-sporting they will. The Congress WE elected gave them the power. BTW, it won't matter when you had your configuration set up, the law was passed in 1990. That's the date they'll go by. Here's my take, the M4 with telestock and extended mag is going to be considered the same functionally identical as the M3 with extended mag and folding stock. The M3 was prohibited from importation, so the M4 will be too. Unless Benelli's legal department pulls a rabbit out of their hat. So far I'm impressed with their responsiveness. They immediately asked for the letter from the ATF, so it looks like the wheels are turning. My guess is their argument is going to be the extended mag, the telestock and the sight rail are all suitable for sporting use. We'll see if .gov buys that. I noticed the M1 practical is getting a lot of play here with the extended magazine. Here's my take, it's OK because of the stock on it. The M4 won't be OK because of the pistol grip stock.

I think what is going to happen is an M4 with a telestock or an extended magazine is going to be identical in configuration to an already prohibited shotgun and denied thusly.

If it was legal wouldn't Benelli be importing the USMC version already? 5Shot, You can play word games with it all you want, but .gov has a **** of a lot more resources than you to throw into any legal proceeding.

Another pic of the letter to show the letterhead.

It's legal for Benelli to sell the parts. It's not legal for us to assemble them, or so it appears. I've given the gentleman who received the letter Benelli's contact information, but I haven't heard back from him today.

Where do you think Benelli telestocks are made? The law clearly states you CAN NOT assemble a weapon that is identical to a weapon that is prohibited from being imported unless it has less than 10 imported parts off of the list. Seriously, you need to read the letter and read the applicable USC and CFRs. Trying to play word games with the ATF will most likely land you in a Federal pound me in the *** prison.

Here's the letter from the ATF in living color:

Basically, you can only have what they import, if you change it then it's illegal? I don't know. I'm just trying to play it conservatively. I try to do that when it comes to doing something that might land me in a Federal "pound me in the *** prison." Like I said it's time for Benelli to step up and show us what is legal for them to import. They are offering LE versions of the M4 for sale and mag extensions.

The ATF makes the rulings, but they certainly don't publish them. We need Benelli to step up and ask for clarification. After all they DO IMPORT weapons. It seems to me they should know what is legal to import to the US to sell to us civies. BTW, I think the letter referred to the five round limit due to the M1014 coming with a pistol grip stock. I don't think it applies to a standard stock shotgun. There definitely needs to be clarification at least on this issue.

ipguy, The problem is the ATF makes the rulings as to what is particularly suitable for sporting use. They have ruled, in writing, that a shotgun with a capacity of greater than five rounds OR a telescoping stock IS NOT SUITABLE FOR SPORTING USE. Therefore it is illegal, period. No list required because they write the CFR. It's not something passed by Congress. Congress charges the ATF with coming up with the definition of readily adaptable for sporting use. Will you get by with the shotgun illegally modified? Probably, it's not like they go looking for such things unless you're trying to sell them. It doesn't change the fact that it is illegal.

FORUM READERS: This issue is serious enough to recommend that you refer to www.atf.gov to clarify any questions regarding the modification of the Benelli M1014/M4. Nelli Girl I believe this is known as a punt. Seems to me the best way to clarify this is for Benelli USA to contact the technical division of the BATF and get some sort of letter faxed to them and post it here. Of course, Benelli USA doesn't have to do this they are under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to make sure we comply with the law. It would be nice, however.

The legal clarification is there. He's trying to find a way to post the actual letter, but it's clear you can't modify the stock.

Thought you all should read this first, since adding the telestock is illegal according to our friends at the BATF. LETTER FROM THE BATF