dport

Sweet. I'm going to have to go in for the third position option. Better than factory!

I was just going to post that the tube is held on with a loc-tite type substance. Not exactly permanate, just need to apply heat, as has been said. I would recommend Gun Kote to refinish the tube. It's easy to put on. I think the matte black would look great.

That explains it. A serial complainer. Hoping to strike it big with a lawsuit? Thank you for reminding me why I left the STL area. Too many people like you and your friend.

Been down that road. Benelli isn't selling the buffer tube to their dealers. Probably to avoid some kitched counter gunsmith from ruining their shotgun trying to remove the old buffer tube. Now here's where I don't like what Benelli IT has done. They won't let Benelli USA do custom work. Guess what replacing the buffer tube with an LE version is considered? My local shop is an LE dealer. They said they could order any LE part for me from Benelli that would have been previously banned under the AWB... They don't have to tell Benelli that the customer isn't a LEO. Excellent, get us prices and we'll do a group buy.

Been down that road. Benelli isn't selling the buffer tube to their dealers. Probably to avoid some kitched counter gunsmith from ruining their shotgun trying to remove the old buffer tube. Now here's where I don't like what Benelli IT has done. They won't let Benelli USA do custom work. Guess what replacing the buffer tube with an LE version is considered?

Actually, have you ever taken a car to a non-certified mechanic and then to a certified mechanic? Same thing. They don't want to endorse those who are not specialists. I agree with your assesment. While I believe the buffer tube is not permanately affixed to the receiver, there is one possibility. The tube itself could be tac welded to the receiver. I doubt that, however. As for sanctioning removal of the buffer tube on the M4? I haven't seen where they said you could. Has the same rep. during the same conversation said no to the M1014 and yes to the M4? Was it the civy or LE version of the M4? Anyway, this Naval Officer will listen to his service's legal council.

He thinks it proves his point. It doesn't. All it shows is the gun looks exactly like the drawings he's *****ing about. Here's the response I got from Benelli: I can not advise you to remove the current buffer tube as it can cause damage to the receiver and would void any warranty on your firearm. Key word there "can cause damage." If it was affixed to the receiver they would have said so or used the term "will." It's clear they don't want a bunch of would be gunsmiths trying to modify their own guns and voiding their warranties. [ 10-07-2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: dport ]

You could modify the existing buffer tube. No need to cut and paste.

Oh dear lord. The M1014 is a CIVILIAN version of a MILITARY shotgun. The CIVILIAN version wasn't allowed to be imported with the MILITARY features at the time of manufacture. So they had to manufacture the gun to meet OUR laws. Don't blame Benelli because OUR ELECTED representatives wouldn't allow them to build and import a gun EXACTLY like the military version. I recommend you learn the difference between design and manufactured. The gun WAS designed to have a collapsible stock, but, due to OUR LAWS, it was manufactured not to have it. The burden of proof is on you, pal, not me. I maintain they are the same. You're the one saying they are different. Again you are assuming they are different. "If" is the operable word there. Again, I agree with your concern over THIS matter, and THIS matter only. There you go again. The AWB hasn't even been dead for a MONTH yet, and already you are suggesting a law suit. GET A GRIP ON REALITY.

Your on the same track as I was. I took out the pin on the left hand side by the "take down button." (If you remove the comb, you'll see there are three indentations that keep the pin in. You'll need to grind these out. It took me about five minutes with Mr. Dremel.) It will get the two positions, fully collapsed and fully extended. Granted it will NOT lock in the fully collapsed position. The pistol grip actually holds it in place, but it WILL rotate to the right. It will come off if you rotate it to the right and pull it off. All you have is the friction of the take down button keeping it in place. I did not reinstall the pin. I think if you took a file or a dremel to the top of the tube where the take down button rubs it would lock in better, not perfect, but better. I just played with it some more. If you're right handed what I did probably won't work for you because it will twist to the right with an aggressive cheek weld. I would MUCH prefer a proper recoil tube, but until then this works for me. I still wonder what Kurt at KKF could do. And there are several small machinists on AR15.com that make stock adaptors for the 870, I'd bet they could machine a proper tube. And I'd still like to know, from Benelli, just how this tube is supposedly permanately fixed to the receiver. We aren't even a month past the AWB sunset. The fact that Benelli is selling the LE versions and the collapsible stock to the public gives me reason to believe Benelli will do the right thing if gentle pressure is relentlessly applied on this subject.

Don't buy that yet! Just because you have a collapsible compatible stock does not mean your gun will have a collapsible stock if you put it on! You have to have the correct buffer tube in order for it to work.

Rescue, Nothing can be further than the truth. I just think a lawsuit is a premature at this point. Lawsuits should be a last resort. We are NO WHERE NEAR THERE YET. Not to mention the argument that Benelli marketed it as being easily converted is, well, stupid. They did no such thing. We stand a better shot if we call/write Benelli corporate in IT than if we threaten them with lawsuits. BTW, Here's my M1014. ETA: No I did not modify the buffer tube. And Rescue, where did you buy yours? I overpaid at Superior Pawn Shop on Va Bch Blvd. [ 10-04-2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: dport ]

Quotes from the ads you posted: "Collapsible stock available for law enforcement only." "Note:Civilian metal stocks are not collapsible.' There you are, plain as day. For the M1014 the angle was there will only be 2500 with the flag on the receiver, not that it can be converted to a collapsible stock. Go ahead and consult an attorney, I'm sure you'll get an ambulance chaser to take your case. It'll get thrown out of court, but you'll probably get an attorney.

Really compelling. Every advertisement CLEARLY says the Civilian Version's stock will NOT collapse. It also says it will accept three stocks, which is true: a standard shotgun stock, a pistol grip stock, and the "skeletonized" stock. No where do they say "own the same shotgun as the US Marines." They only advertise that it uses the same operating system. If the picture of a "Marine" with a collapsed stock misled you then you have serious issues. I'd read the literature where it says the civilian version will not collapse.

Correct, but the companies did not sell the guns advertising they were easily converted to an illegal config. Also if you bought a fake tele-stock for an AR, it came with a tube that would not allow the stock to collapse. Sound familiar? Try getting spare parts from Ruger. Same deal. They will only provide parts if the gun is sent in. I'm still not convinced. There are many companies that will say not to do repair/work on their equipment because of the risk of damage to the equipment. How many places require an authorized agent/repairman? Many because Joe Toolshed will screw something up. Unfortunately, skilled and properly equipt gunsmiths are few and far between. Pure supposition on your part. I'm willing to bet there is no difference; thus, no need for seperate manuals. Still waiting for WIN to come back with the details regarding his friend the gunsmith. Would like to know the following: 1. Was it an M1014 2. What was involved. Was it just the matter of a retaining nut and then screwing out the the recoil spring tube? Just some rambling thoughts. I've gotten as far as trying to remove the retaining nut. I noticed no visible welds on the nut. So if the recoil spring tube was permanately attached was the nut affixed with some sort of apoxy? Or was the tube itself welded or apoxied to the receiver? I kind of doubt there was weld due to the fit of the retaining nut. If I had a full length vise, I'd probably attempt it myself. But what is the point if the part isn't going to be made available?

I tried, I really tried, but I can't help myself. I can only assume he means me. They did not state why. I still maintain the problem is one of support of the receiver, based on what I've looked at after actually looking at my gun. There is no problem with the design. It feeds just about anything. How long have you given them to respond? Have you tried calling? Did you write or call the offices in IT? Hmm. IF and I mean IF you're correct, Benelli comes with a warranty does it not? Then they would have to replace the receiver and the tube for you if something was wrong. I got an idea. Take a hammer to the recoil tube, since it has no resale value anyway, and then send it to Benelli to fix/replace. Report back. Like Bushmaster? Sorry pal, not many civilian AR's are mil-spec. Like I said before, Benelli couldn't import the same gun as they provide to the military at the time. If you couldn't figure that one out then you're the one with issues. I did indeed read the material. What have gunowners argued about the AWB from the beginning? That it only outlawed cosmetic differences. A collapsable stock is a cosmetic difference because it does not change the function of the firearm in question. It's "bait and switch" and in order to show that you would have to prove Benelli marketed the gun as being convertable to a collapsable stock. I challenge you to show me such an ad from Benelli and post it here. All you need is a scanner. I'm sure St. Louis University Medical School has them around somewhere. If you can show me a Benelli add, not some article in some gun rag (I'll be that's where you got your information from some "know it all" gun writer.) I'll join your class action suit. ****, I might even buy your gun, so you can get a LE version. I actually agree with you there, but I don't think that is the case. You know we were never told when Benelli was asked about the recoil tube on the M1014. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it was before the AWB expired and the guy was covering his *** for two reasons. One, he would have been aiding illegal activity. Two, what if the person does not support the receiver and screws it up? Again, IF and I do mean IF that is the case I will be pissed too, but I don't think you have a snowball's chance in **** of making the marketing thing stick. Simply because there is no way Benelli would market a gun as being easily converted to a, then, illegal configuration.

I'm done wasting my time with certain people. I'd like to see them put up or shut up about a class action lawsuit.

Good to see you here gotM4. I hope you're able to find your answer here.

You're a troll and I hope you're banned from this forum. You have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF the recoil spring tube cannot be replaced. Again, for the umpteenth time, the gun was sold as a commemorative. Why don't you go ahead and start with the lawsuit and see how many people are as outraged as you? You might as well, because it seems like it is too hard for you to contact Benelli corporate in IT. If you're gun has NO resale value, I'll do you a favor. I'll buy it for $250 sight unseen. I have a question. Have you contacted Benelli to see if you can send in your gun to have the tube replaced? Or are you just pissed because you can't find the parts you need on the internet? One more thing, there is NO WAY IN **** Benelli would market the gun as being identical to the military version. They couldn't because when the gun was introduced to the public they had to comply with the AWB. Do you think the military got the fake mag extension? The magazine limiter? The flag on the side? The fake tele-stock? You are a troll, and not an especially bright one at that. Now either sell me your gun that has not value for $250 or go back to living under your bridge and STFU. [ 10-02-2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: dport ]

Having looked at the tube in question. I don't think there is any difference between the M4S90 and the M1014. I think Benelli's comment about ruining the receiver is because the retaining nut is torqued on there pretty good, and if you didn't support the receiver during disassembly you'd probably bend it out of true. Again it's not a military version of the shotgun; it's a commemorative edition. With all these posts belly aching about Benelli, has anyone actually contacted their corporate offices in Italy like Benelli Girl suggested? Hmm? Or is it more fun to ferment "revolt" and complain than to try to change thngs?

Keep us posted. It appears as if there is just a retaining nut that keeps the tube on the receiver, but I don't have the tools to remove it to see if there is a weld or something below it. I would guess, if they did make it where it can't be removed, there would be a small weld there. I can't see any weld on the retaining nut.

Remember the LE version of the M4 is for sale to the public, and it can usually be found cheaper than the M1014. It has the correct tube.

slu_med, Could you at least limit your diatribe to one thread?

It was never misrepresented. It was Limited Edition as a tribute to the military. Do you think the USMC guns have flags on the receiver? Or are numbered 1 thru 2500? Even with the AWB dead there was is debate about whether or not an M4 with collapsable stock would meet the import criteria. I still await an official ruling from the BATF, so this might be all for nothing. We could do everthing you suggest, or we could do something sensible like: - Ask Benelli to sell the proper part. Given Benelli Girl's post it's not a Benelli USA call, it's a Benelli corporate call in IT. Perhaps they will respond. -Ask machinists that specialize in weapons if they can make the proper tube. I know of several on AR-15.com that could probably do it. -Ask someone like Kurt of KKF to modify the existing tube. Considering there are only 2500 M1014s in circulation, figure some are still on shelves or being resold, andother owners are collectors and won't modify the guns, and still other owners don't care about the collapsing feature, there probably isn't a huge demand for these tubes. Nor is there a huge ground swell for a class action suit. Even if we count in the M4(non-LE) version in the mix, the price of the M4(non-LE) vs the M1 and people waiting for the end of the AWB, and the BATF ruling, probably have kept sales down until now. I just don't see a big market for Benelli to sell the tubes. Benelli is a business if the market isn't worth their while they are not going to sell the part.

It's not the only thing, but a rifle is a rifle and a shotgun is a shotgun. It makes one appear to be a troll if one doesn't even correctly portray the weapon. You can make the gun, as is, have a two position stock. You can get a good machinist to mill the buffer tube to make it a multiple position stock. You can even modify the current buttstock without spending close to two hundred dollars on a new one. Don't know about the reciever. Looking at it and the drawings, it appears just to be the tube. I haven't taken it apart; although, I have been tempted. That is so much BS as to not even be funny. Benelli USA did no such thing. If your gun dealer did then your dispute is there. Benelli's site clearly states the M1014 comes with a faux collapsing stock and a faux magazine extension. Check out this link It clearly states the M1014 comes with a NON-collapsing stock. No where in any Benelli literature was there any indication the M1014 could be converted to have a collapsable stock. If you assumed so, well you know what they say about assuming. It's the mother of all f-ups. If you want to alienate Benelli from the American shooting public then a lawsuit is just the tool. Companies like H&K and Colt are already nervous about being sued, so they restrict sales. Can you imagine if they had to worry about being sued not only by gun grabbers, but gun owners too? That's just stupidity at its finest. As for the sheep comment, , it seems that I wasn't the one easily mislead. I did read the literature and didn't assume anything, nor did I listen to the BS spouted by some dealer. I also managed to figure out several alternatives myself. If you just look at the shotgun and the stock you can tell why it wouldn't be a multi-position stock without a new recoil tube. You need to calm down, ask Benelli nicely to sell the recoil spring tube, and enjoy the best STL Cardinals team in 22 years. [ 10-01-2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: dport ]