stevenb

Look into buying a Pelican case online. You can get them significantly cheaper than MSRP. The cases are bomb proof. -Steve

You could use the Sidearmor mount to attatch picatinny mounted lights directly to it, and use a tape switch over to the forearm. I've found this way to be better then clamping to the magazine extension. Heres where you can buy one. http://www.sidearmor.com/cart/catalog/product_50_M401_Shotgun_Interface_system_for_Benelli_M4_M1014.html If you follow the '89 import ban, then the extended tube is illegal if used with a pistol grip stock. You'll notice that most do not care though. Same applies for a real deal collapsible stock. -Steve

I have the frame of a Beretta 92g Elite II coated in Teflon-S about 2 years ago, and to this day the frame rails have not shown any wear whatsoever. Mind you this is an aluminum frame on a stainless slide. I've put probably 3000 - 5000 rounds thru it since it was coated, and no flaking or chipping has shown up. This is a sliding surface, as well as an impact area where the slide comes against the frame when retracted. Walter Birdsong would be the man to talk with about where should and should not be coated. Example, I would like to have down the magazine tube done to slick up the loading process. The break-in of teflon is very nice, expecially when applied to a well used weapon. All the microscopic highs and lows have been evened out. The application of the teflon then constricts these tollerences. The weapon ends up with more surface to surface contact. An interesting place of application would be the bolt itself. I would not coat over the chrome within the Benellis action though. I will have a full review of my job when done, but that is likely to be a few months away. -Steve

I'll have to call monday to get an RAN. I just hope its nothing stupid like a lead smudge that is stuborn. I highly doubt it by the looks of it, and I doubt it would get bigger. I tried to take a picture with the digital camera, but it is impossible to get a good picture. I doubt the broken gas piston and this barrel pitting is linked because the opposite side piston is the one that broke. As much trouble as I am having though, I would like Benelli to simply replace the barrel and gas system. What sucks is the barrel was scheduled to be magnaported soon. ...and I just got my sling. http://www.citlink.net/~lmiller/M4/benelli11big.jpg -Steve [ 01-21-2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: stevenb ]

Go with Birdsong if you plan on going Teflon. Without a middleman acting on your behalf to accept/refuse a job, it could be very expensive shipping the weapon back to the finisher for an unacceptable job. You'll have to talk to Walter, but I doubt he'll coat a lot of the internal parts, but I could be wrong. A far second place, I'd look at Robar. You could mix NP3 and Roguard. I plan to send my M4 to Birdsong once I get all the parts and modifications done. -Steve

While I was cleaning my M4 after a good shoot, I noticed a mark inside of the barrel just right of the two gas ports on the right. About a quarter inch forward of the forcing cone. The object looked similar to the way one of the gas ports looked. On previous cleaning occassions, I paid it no attention. Those of you whom have handled the M4 know that looking at these ports is difficult to do. Naturally, I thought it was some debris that had built up. So I soaked the bore in MPro7 for about an hour since my bore brush wasn't removing it. Upon swabbing it clean, the spot was unaffected. I've come to believe that this is likely a chip in the chrome barrel... Like I said earlier, it has been there since I first cleaned the weapon, but didn't pay it any attention since I assumed it was one of the barrel ports. Some of you will remember that during the first 50 rounds thru this shotgun, it experienced a massive failure in the gas system which broke one of the stainless steel gas pistons in half. I know I didn't scratch it with a guide rod, because I only use a bore snake. No reloads of any sort have been used in it. I've never even used any 3" magnum loads. The weapon has between 700 - 1000 rounds thru it. Looks like another month long trip to Benelli. -Steve

Not sure I follow you either wallhanger54. I laid out the issue with the gun, the problem is a known problem for those shooting at a high rate of speed. Something in which I am encountering. It's not really a factory gun problem, since most arn't shooting at this high of a rate. If you have another suggestion to look into -- post it. Tell me why my 3 month old Benelli M4 fails only when I'm rapid firing on a target. A benelli that is cleaned thouroughly after every outing and is inspected for any type of damage. The failure involves the hammer dropping, and a live round is in the chamber, with no sign of a mark on the primer. I wouldn't bother with the aftermarket if I wasn't encountering the problem. I'm sure if you scroll back 3 months and see that I busted a gas piston after 50 rounds, you'd say that was my fault too right? If I said I was using super bullet X, and magic oil Y and cleaned it in a super duper fashion using Z, you'd gripe that I was a sucker and flushing my money down the toilet just as you are now. BTW, who was complaining? And you seem to get mad easily. I don't care if you can out shoot me or not, no one asked you. If you don't have anything of value to post, STFU. -Steve

Want an even better method? The 'smiths at www.surecycle.com will replace the recoil tube with an all stainless unit that will increase the cyclic rate by about 40%. Better materials that you'll never have to worry about rusting out also. I talked to the owner, and he said it would be no problem to machine those notches into it while your gun is there. The action system is 155, plus 75 dollars worth of labor. Which includes polishing of the action and trigger assembly. Since my gauge is going there shortly, I may have the notches put in mine for the day I bother to get the collapsible stock. -Steve

Here's my response from SRM. Steve, We do service the M4 Benelli and we do offer stainless steel actions for it. The magazine upgrade kit is also available. If you are interested in shipping your shotgun to us for service please be sure to include your daytime contact and credit card information. The basic labor charge for our services is $75 and I cannot imagine your M4 needing any other repairs, so that will be all of the labor cost. The action system is $155 and the magazine kit is $28. Regards, SRM Performance Products A Division of Snake River Machine, Inc. Jeffrey Hajjar - President and CEO tel 208 887 9395 fax 208 884 1746 I wrote a response asking a few more questions, which I'll let everyone know the answers too. My e-mail: ------------------------------- Thank you for the prompt reply. I have a few other questions though if you don't mind. 1. Do you need the entire shotgun for the work, or can I simply send the receiver, bolt group and trigger assembly? Yes, I know it is still considered a firearm, and must be shipped accordingly. 2. Typically, how long does the work take? 3. Will barrel porting effect the action with your system installed? I was considering having Magnaport do the porting, but if you offer the service, I'd much rather do that. BTW, the M4 I have has removeable chokes. 4. Do you offer any trigger work? I would like to lighten the trigger pull to around 4 lbs., yet remain safe and reliable. 5. Your services page lists a number of minor modifications to enhance reliability and speed. My M4 has went through about 2000 rounds in the past 3 months that I've had it. 6. From my understanding, the system you install replaces the recoil tube. If so, does this tube come with the notches milled into the outside for the collapsible stock to lock into place? If this is the case, I know a significant number of people who would jump at this to replace the model in the limited edition and the 11703 M4's. Thank you, -Steve ------------------ Looks promising...

Well I'll be ****ed. That article pretty much says I was out shooting my Benelli. I thought the Benelli cycled faster than .14 seconds... I honestly didn't think I was going that fast, and have found myself holding back in fear of running into this problem. Tough to believe considering how heavy the trigger is on the M4. The article mentions some upgrades out there made by SRM. Will these work in a Benelli M4? Cabela's has the stuff, but it doesn't indicate if it will work in the M4 or not. The claim is it will increase the cyclic rate by 40% on a gas gun. It looks like the entire recoil tube assembly. Which means this would be a gunsmith job since we all know the troubles in removing the recoil tube for the telescopic stock installations. I dropped SRM an e-mail asking about compatability or if they're willing to begin supporting this model weapon. Maybe they'd be willing to build a tube with the proper mill marks on it for the telescopic stock? I'd gladly send my M4 to them to have this work done. Here is their website, e-mail if you're interested in this as well. http://www.surecycle.com/default.asp?CP=0 They offer a lot of inhouse action work as well. -Steve

Thanks for the info. I highly doubt I'm pushing the limits of the weapon. I can't give an exact answer, but I think I was firing about 4 or 5 rounds a second. My shooting style when it happens is when I'm firing rapidly on a single target. Typically, this is with Birdshot. Usually Winchester bulk pack, I believe its either 2 3/4 or 3 dram loading. Mechanically, is it possible for the hammer to fall on the bolt while the bolt is still moving forward? You know, I have a Tacstar side saddle mounted, I wonder if it is a little too tight and is causing some restriction and slowing the movement of the bolt? I'm pretty sure that it happened before the installation of the Tacstar unit. This is disapointing if this is yet another problem for the Benelli line. Another major thing I'm disapointed in is the placement and design of the safety. For a combat shotgun, I find it lacking. -Steve

Thanks for the compliments guys. I wish Sidearmor would hurry up and get me my stuff. I placed my order yesterday with Spector arms for a 3 point sling and a 6 shell carrier for the offside stock. Also waiting on my Picatinny mounted laser mount too. Send Surefire an e-mail to hurry up and release the M80 railed forend. My Benelli might be going to Magnaport too. -Steve

During some combat style shooting, I've experienced a number of failures where I will be firing at a high rate of speed. During rapid fire, the hammer will drop as the bolt is still cycling, my guess is while the bolt is still unlocked, therefore the firing pin doesn't make contact with the primer. There is no mark on the primer of the failed round. Since the hammer is then down, I have to use the cocking handle to cycle a new round in order to re-**** the weapon. I've always heard that Benelli's are very fast cycling weapons, so I find it hard to believe that I am beating the cycle of the bolt. Either way, should the hammer be falling without the bolt being fully in battery? I've found myself slowing down my shooting in order to avoid this issue. I've looked for damage to the trigger group, but I don't see anything wrong. Anyone else have this problem? Its only happened a couple times, but once is more then enough. -Steve

I bought my 11703 for 1300 shipped about 3 months ago, I made contact with a seller on gunbroker and made him the offer. This is the model with the pistol grip stock. I'd buy the 11707 though if I had it all over to do again, it'll allow for the installation of a functional collapsible stock without modification. Be warned of legality issues doing that. In the 3 months I've had my gauge, its sucked up about another 1000 bucks in aftermarket parts, and has ate about 2000 rounds of ammo. It's requesting about another 1000 bucks worth of modifications too. Be warned. It wants a trip to Walter Birdsong to be refinished in Black-T. It would like an oversized bolt release from GG&G, night sights, a throw lever mount for my EOTech, GG&G oversized charging handle, steel magazine tube follower, needs a sling, is waiting for Surefire to release the M80 railed forend, a Surefire weapon light, and a forward vertical grip. It would also like some support from Vangcomp. My new toy for the Benelli is a 12mw visible green laser. The mount sucks. I'm waiting on the Sidearmor mount, and a 7/8" picatinny mount for the laser to come in the next few days. Yes, it is the ultimate zombie hunting gun. -Steve

M1014, I heard the Tacstar shell carrier needs some modification to fit the M4, any truth to this? If so, what needs to be done? What about issues with slings? I've got an EOTech 552 coming for my M4 any day in the mail now. I was told that the oversized bolt release that GG&G makes will fit the M4. It is expensive though -- a little over a 100 dollars. Would be a great mod though. The oversized charging handle looks good too. Surefires rail system will likely be the way I go when it is released. I have the extended feed tube on my M4, but I am not going to do the collapsible stock until I see a final word from Benelli and the BATF about its legality. -Steve

Got my reply back, they said the M80 should be done by the end of the year! No pictures are available of the unit as of yet though. On a side note, I asked them about the status of the L80 green visible laser and they said it has not been scrapped. It is simply on hold. -Steve

Thanks for the replies. Check this out though. I wrote to Surefire this morning and this is what they said: ------------------------- Dear Sir, SureFire will be making a railed forend for the Benelli M4. Unfortunately, as it is not out yet, we do not have any details or pictures of the item yet. The model number is the M80. If you have any further questions do not hesitate to write back or call us at 1-800-828-8809. We are dedicated to providing world-class customer service and welcome future inquiries or comments. ------------------------- I wrote back trying to get an aprox. release date. I wrote to Sidearmor too to see if they have future plans. No response yet though. -Steve

Double_wield, Sorry, I didn't notice you responded. My M4 required a new gas piston after 50 rounds. So far the new one has held up for 200 rounds. That blows about the B&T unit. I was going to buy it. Can you remember any more of the negatives about it? I can fix the venting issue probably. Does it hold a zero? I intend to mount a OTAL on it. I searched arfcom but it is too old I guess. Is Surefire going to release one or is it just a rumor? I agree their ar-15 one sucks compared to the competitions. I need something in the near future. Not a few years. -Steve

Mine is a Y0072**. Mine is a model 11703. And my gas piston busted which has been documented on this forum. Tomarrow I hope to have some time to run through 200 rounds. If it is going to break, I hope it does it sooner rather than later. I seriously hope our troops aren't getting these weapons with these problems. When mine jammed up, it made the weapon inoperable as well. -Steve

You don't know how far you are from the truth! I tried to dish out the abuse in which he spoke, but it busted on me! Maybe I should shoot it with a pair of welding gloves on? -Steve

I believe M4Madness and I discussed a possible way to get the mods we want done on the M4 for those of us who live in Class III states. M4Madness mentioned that if it was registered as a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS) then it would be exempt from the '89 import ban restrictions. Is it mandatory to actually put the 14" entry barrel on the M4 if registered as a SBS? If not, you could simply classify it as the shorty, leave the 18.5 on it, and add all the evil you want. Yes, you will get dinged for a 200 dollar tax stamp and wait around for 4 - 8 months for them to give you the green light. This is likely the route I will go if I can confirm it will exempt this weapon from the import ban. Plus, I want to know if I can leave the 18.5 on it after it is registered as the SBS. Also, does Benelli even sell the entry barrel to civilians? -Steve

I've been thinking about this problem while at work today. There may be something wrong with the ARGO system. Tap an unloaded Benelli M4 with the bolt closed on the deck on the butt stock, you will see the bolt retract. The action is very smooth and requires very little to cycle the weapon. The ARGO system was ment to bleed the proper amount of energy (gas) to reliably cycle the weapon reguardless of the power or size of the load. This adds up to make the weapon reliable at cycling low recoil rounds. Have you inspected the area where the piston stop is on the barrel? This over travel stop keeps the piston from entering the receiver too far. Any undue wear in this area? The ARGO system could be dumping way too much gas into the piston and causing undue stress on the system. Just a theory. Any damage to the pistons themselves that you can see? Those of you whom have the Benelli M4 with higher round counts, is your carrier face wearing like Miami_M4's is? The left hand piston is the one in which shattered on my rifle. I really hope these issues are flukes and not a design flaw. I would suggest sending them the entire shotgun to inspect the ARGO system. Or you can take your chances with a replacement carrier and see if that solves your problems. I took that route since shipping overnight from AZ to MD is VERY expensive. I'd ask them to replace the pistons as well, since they have now been impacting on an uneven surface. If you have other pictures you'd like to post, I'd gladly host them for you if you want. Just e-mail them to me. -Steve [ 10-29-2004, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: stevenb ]

Yours got further then mine did. I only got thru 50 rounds before it took a dump on me and the gas piston broke in half. Good luck with customer service. It took them a month to simply mail me a replacement gas piston. Your right about it being embarassing. Expecially after the kind of money we've laid out for a shotgun that is supposed to be uber reliable. -Steve

All I'm asking for is a weapon that works. I know that is a lot to ask. If it is fixed, and it prooves itself, I'm happy. If not, they owe me a replacement. This gun isn't for shooting birds or blasting paper circles. This firearm is ment to defend my home. -Steve

Well, I finally got my replacement gas piston from Benelli today. Nearly a month after I sent the busted one in to them. There was nothing in the package to explain what had happened, or even an apology. It's raining cats and dogs today and tomarrow, so I doubt I'll make it out to put it through another exhausting test of 50 rounds of ball busting 2 and 3/4 birdshot, at 3 drams. If it doesn't break, I'll push it even further for maybe 150 - 200 rounds -- yeah, I'm a saddist like that. Any more problems, and the whole gun is going back to them and I'm demanding a replacement. This BS with the batf and the collapsible stock is bugging me too. I don't care that much about the stock, but having the extended feed tube on it is importaint to me. If they keep it up, and give us all the finger, I may try to SBR it and get the 14" barrel entry variant. That way I'll be getting something back for the reduced capacity. My luck Benelli doesn't even sell that barrel to us pesants. I'd really rather not deal with the SBR nightmare though. I'm starting to have regrets about buying Benelli due to these issues. Unless someone steps up to the plate and starts offering American made parts to get the foreign part count down bellow 10 -- I don't see that a happening though. If we could get companies like Vang comp to support this format, it might be doable and you might get some benefit too. Anyone sit down and count out how many foreign parts are in the M4 as it is? I'm not certain which parts count. -Steve