stevenb

I've been looking at that system, and this one from Brugger & Thomet. http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT21353&storeid=1&image=btbenhg.gif Both aren't exactly what I want though. I'd like for a portion of the rail system to extend past where the handguards normally fit too. That way I can add the Surefire 9 volt light up ahead of my grip area, then route a tape switch to some rail covers. This system would be better if it linked the top rail to the rear receiver mounts like on the Sidearmor unit. This would give you a better zero holding unit, but it would have to be redesigned to make taking the weapon down easily. Technically, you could use both. At least the Sidearmor unit without the extended upper rail, and the DSA thing. I keep hearing rumors of Surefire developing one for it. Maybe by the time Benelli gets around to fixing my M4, it'll be out? I'd think it would be a high priority due to military contracts. Maybe I'll get ahold of Larue and drop them a tip. They're pretty responsive to what consumers want. The truth is, both systems above leave a lot to be desired. If you guys want to hammer out some things you'd like to see or don't want, it might help. Personally, I'd like to see a full length upper picatinny rail mounted to the receiver. This rail then is apart of or capsulated by a replacement handguard with addresses on all 4 sides, the top being the picatinny running from the receiver forward. Thus giving you an uninterupted mount. A bonus would be taking a design similar to the GG&G rail system from the M16 family which has addresses on the diagonals as well as the 90 degree hard mounts. I'd opt for free floating system, but this being a shotgun, the benefit is minimal. I'd prefer to strengthen the barrel support with the rail system. Free floating all the way from the receiver would make an unstable platform, or it would be ungodly heavy. A rail system would offer better ways to mount a sling. Do you feel the military would like a way to mount a bayonet on this shotgun? Being a close quarter medium, it would seem to have some draw. Would you like a light weight heat shield along the remainder of the barrel? I think it could be built to be compatible with the 14" version as well very easily. I'd pay up to 500 dollars for a quality rail system. - -Steve [ 10-21-2004, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: stevenb ]

I'll post them for you bry72, Looks great! -Steve

I hear you on the M4. I'm still waiting on Benelli to finish the time consuming task of look at the shattered gas piston I sent them, then stick a new one in an envelope and mail it back to me. Supposidly mine is a fluke. If it does it again, I'm demanding a new weapon from them. If that one breaks, I'm demanding a full refund, and taking my money elsewhere. In theory, you should only need to clean and oil your shotgun. It is possible your M1 will short stroke on light loads since it is enertia driven. Another reason I went for the M4. The Benelli M121 old school I have has ate 10's of thousands of rounds with no major problems except one time the seal brazing on the barrel broke loose. Other then that, has ran like a champ. -Steve

Nice, from what I've seen, the stock unit only has two positions, closed and fully open. Do you know if you could add additional engagement points so you could have a truely adjustable stock? This would be great for adjusting different pulls. What did your 'smith use to refinish the tube? Looking forward to pictures. -Steve

I've seen it on Ebay. It looks like a more thourough manual concerning the Benelli M4. Those of you familiar with the M16 field would be right at home with it. Is there a online version of this anywhere? Frankly, the manual that the Benelli M4 comes with that is given to civilians sucks. I still don't fully understand how the ARGO system work, and what the function of a lot of the parts inside of the gas system do. I have my own theories, but I would prefer written facts. I understand it's a impingment piston driven system, but I don't fully understand how the system bleeds off the apropriate amount of gas to cycle the weapon, and where the excess gas is directed -- back into the barrel? What does the spring inside of the piston plug do? Is that what bleeds the right amount of preasure to cycle the weapon? None of this is really explained in the manual. I find it interesting that the pistons are free floating. If you lock the bolt back, and shake the weapon, you can hear and see them sliding back and forth. When in battery, they are pushed forward and locked into position. Seems like undue strain is put on the piston when the bolt slams back into the pistons during every cycle. Maybe that's why mine broke. -Steve

Hope yours doesn't break like mine did within the first 50 rounds. I'm STILL waiting for Benelli to send me a new gas piston. -Steve

I would bet money that Benelli was forced to use a different recoil spring tube by the BATF to make the stock not easily convertable. I'm not sure how difficult it is to remove the recoil spring tube from the receiver. It appears to be a threaded tube by the looks of it in the parts diagram. Call John Edwards after Nov. 2nd, he should be free to accept your class action lawsuit. Bring grease. -Steve

The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. Expecially after the news that the model I have cannot accept the collapsible stock without milling the **** out of the recoil spring tube. I'm also worried some damage may have occured to the channel that the piston actually sits in. This weapon isn't for going to the range, this was ment to be my home defense gun. If they want to treat me right, they'll straight across replace the weapon. Preferably with a 11707 model, since I feel cheated as it is. -Steve

ipguy, Yes, Benelli could probably talk me into purchasing their 180 dollar collaspible stock and install it for me with the new recoil buffer tube. -Steve

M1014, Will GG&G's oversized bolt release fit the M4? -Steve

Yesterday, I picked up my Benelli M4, model number 11703. I lubed it up and assembled it out of the box. I went shooting within a few hours of getting it home. I began shooting some 2 3/4 birdshot. Perhaps 40 rounds of it. I shot a few 2 3/4 buck shot loads and a few slugs as well. So a total of about 50 rounds or so. That last 20 rounds seemed to be firing slugishly. I inspected the chamber but witnessed nothing wrong. Then, a massive failure happened. Something was binding the bolt up from loading a fresh round. It looked like a small metal rod. It turned out to be part of the gas piston. I had to disassemble the weapon to clear the jam. Here is a picture of the shattered gas piston. Looks expensive doesn't it? I inspected how the gas system was installed, and consulted the manual and determined that it was assembled properly from the factory. The steel looks extremely brittle where it busted. Notice the rings around the smaller portion of the pin that broke off. So now I have to mail this piston to Benelli, and perhaps they might give me a new one after I just spent 1300+ dollars. I get to pay for some more shipping. The customer service wanted me to send the entire gun. I explained to him the possibility that it is a metal failure of the piston only, since the other piston looks fine and it was installed the exact same way, and ****, it was holding double the load. Didn't really like the idea of having to spend another 50 bucks or so for shipping back to benelli. I guess I'm a miser like that. This was to be used as a home defense gun, but I won't trust it until it can put a 1000 shells down range without a failure. I bought a Benelli so I wouldn't have to deal with BS like this. Definately not a happy buyer, expecially after I found out that the 11703 model will not properly accept a collapsible stock without some major gunsmithing. Very embarrassing to have a gun in this price range have a major failure in under a 100 rounds. -Steve [ 10-27-2004, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: stevenb ]