Barrel length . . . it has to matter!

[splashtx556ftw]

 

Or on second thought, perhaps they are just failing to discard years of experience, in favor of hear-say, urban legend, and what Wal-Mart ammo does in a yard long O/U barrel vs K-Mart ammo out of a semi-auto entry gun.

 

if you shoot federal, remington, or winchester ammo,what difference does it make what store it came out of??

Edited December 19, 2008 by splashtx556ftw

[MontefeltroPro]

This whole "argument" reminds me of when I argue with my wife. The modus-operandi seems to always be: "Don't confuse me with facts... my head is "made up." (And SHE usually wins... life is easier that way!!!)

 

Have enjoyed the discourse from both sides of the barrel-length question, actually. I have always thought that longer guns hold a tighter pattern longer... just my "head-made-up" opinion. I've done no study on the subject so I tend to want to respect those who have.

 

Merry Christmas All.

[splashtx556ftw]

YEA what he said

[Guest cleefurd]

ok...........if it makes no diff at all, tell me why, why are they out there with a gun that looks like its got a 4ft piece of pipe on it????? why not a 20 or 22 inch barrel?? i ll be the first to admit, maybe under laboratory conditions. it makes no diff at all. but in my back yard,it does make a difference. after all, i dont hunt in thier lab. i have tryed this over and over with so many guns i cant even remember them all. and ive yet to see a short barrel deliver as "tight" a pattern as a long one.and until some one comes to my house with a gun and proves different, im gona stick to my belief.

 

Have you ever had a 22" barrel deliver the same velocities the 40" barrels do with loads optimized for 40" barrels, not GP loads that peter out beyond 26"? You did say you have a chronograph. Rather than hunt in their lab, duplicate their lab in your yard, you might start to see a trend that favors scientific proof, or perhaps better still, you may disprove their data, and re-write the exterior ballistics data, get an American Rifleman of the Year Award, and truly be a pioneer in the realm of backyard physics. Like I said, you could be right, but why thrash the guy who produces textbook excerpts to help you understand your own question? I did not write those chapters, and the manufacturers you disagree with aren't trying to fool you or question the laws of physics at your lat/long. Their accounts are just that, your accounts may differ, where the lines blur, and shades of grey appear, you certainly have the obligation to believe your own eyes. At the other extreme, they are speaking of concrete sequential, documented accounts, repeated, theorized, dissected, cross examined, backwards engineered to evaluate predicted results from emergent data, and epiphonies arrived upon by both serendipity and statistical probability alike, alas in the end, they pass it on to you, so you can cry foul. We all struggle to understand, alas I find myself struggling to explain my own understanding. Ahhh the thrill of stimulating debate, and friendly exchange.

 

I still admire your quest for the truth, and diligent march towards validation of the purported facts. Everything you do, and everything you take from it is part of YOUR experience, so long as you keep doing it the exact same way, with the same results, you WILL know what you are doing, and no one can argue with that.

[Guest cleefurd]

This whole "argument" reminds me of when I argue with my wife. The modus-operandi seems to always be: "Don't confuse me with facts... my head is "made up." (And SHE usually wins... life is easier that way!!!)

 

Have enjoyed the discourse from both sides of the barrel-length question, actually. I have always thought that longer guns hold a tighter pattern longer... just my "head-made-up" opinion. I've done no study on the subject so I tend to want to respect those who have.

 

Merry Christmas All.

 

They do (long barrels do group tighter), everyone who says that is correct. All the manufacturers contend is that it is not the barrel length that makes a pattern, it is the choke and exit velocity afforded by that barrel.

[Guest cleefurd]

if you shoot federal, remington, or winchester ammo,what difference does it make what store it came out of??

 

 

The gist was comparing bananas to oranges rather than oranges to oranges. Eliminating stores, and focusing on ammo selection, Federal with the same powder charge may pattern differently than Remington ammo of identical specs, based on the variables of velocity attributed to primer ignition characteristics, wad density and its role in initial peak chamber pressures and resultant velocity attributes, etc. Point was he stated his "control" for testing involved different shell types from different guns, in an attempt to show how divergent components cancelled out industry logic and statistical data put forth by manufacturers. I contend this way of brewing results is hap-hazard. He asked, then he slaps my answer around, yet I keep coming back for more because he SEEMS to want to be convinced. Guess I'm a nice guy, and he seems like a nice guy too, searching for opinions.

[Novaking]

if you shoot federal, remington, or winchester ammo,what difference does it make what store it came out of??

 

 

Walmart ammo is different than other stores. Walmart has contracts with them to produce cheaper ammo. Less uniform lead, "dirty powder" and less dram is some of the differances you will see.

[splashtx556ftw]

ive shot ammo from wal mart, academy,cabelas,higher than a cats a**,[ctd] as well as alpine range, a elk castle. ive never noticed any difference. i guess its a psycological thing, to pay $9.75 for a box of bird shot, vs $4.25 at w.m.

 

i wish you could go dove hunting with me. not bragging, but i enillate birds w/ wally world ammo. my friends hate to go hunting with me. i limit out in less than an hour if the birds are flying.

[Guest cleefurd]

ive shot ammo from wal mart, academy,cabelas,higher than a cats a**,[ctd] as well as alpine range, a elk castle. ive never noticed any difference. i guess its a psycological thing, to pay $9.75 for a box of bird shot, vs $4.25 at w.m.

 

i wish you could go dove hunting with me. not bragging, but i enillate birds w/ wally world ammo. my friends hate to go hunting with me. i limit out in less than an hour if the birds are flying.

 

... now I hate you. I never have time to go hunting anymore. Thought retirement would fix that problem... WRONG! No matter how you spell it, enillat'n birds would suit me right down to the ground. Last time I went I saw one bird, and he saw me. I'd go with ya just to watch you club 'em with that four foot long barrel you showed us. THAT would be a cool gadget, still can't get over how quiet they say it is. What was it... 74 db?

[Guest cleefurd]

http://www.metrogun.com here you go.

 

(Just re-read the article. Seems they DO reference improved grouping at 40 yds. I missed that the first time I viewed it. Interesting. Apparently they're onto something, outside the norm component and results wise. Pretty sure Aberdeen never tested THOSE barrels with their proprietary subsonic SG ammo. Hmmm... if those groups were with the subsonic ammo, that would account for some of the improved grouping, since trans-sonic departure does scatter projectiles quite a bit, which subsonic ammo never encounters.)

 

Transsonic

1 : being or relating to speeds near that of sound in air or about 741 miles (1185 kilometers) per hour at sea level and especially to speeds slightly below the speed of sound at which the speed of airflow varies from subsonic to supersonic at different points along the surface of a body in motion relative to the surrounding air.

 

Now my head hurts. You got me thinking.

Edited December 21, 2008 by cleefurd

[Novaking]

i wish you could go dove hunting with me. not bragging, but i enillate birds w/ wally world ammo. my friends hate to go hunting with me. i limit out in less than an hour if the birds are flying.

 

 

All I shoot is walmart ammo. I shoot 15 dove in a hour with about a box of shells. I'm not saying there bad, I'm saying there different.

 

novaking

[splashtx556ftw]

i have a 26" barrel on my franchi al-48,20ga. and a 28" barrel on the Charles Daly 12. and as far as cheap ammo goes, if it sucks , it only means i get to shoot my guns more, at the same target.