M1014 & 922r

[barometric]

1) yeah-newbie to here. My son is a Marine and thats what we're getting me (its a consumer M1014- not a Marine issue!)

2) It has the upgrade collapsible tube in the stock, so not just fixed.

3) I asked him about a light, and while we were at a show, he picked up a ITAC-TDL1- which is American-made and has grip,light,laser. He said it was very hard to get one.

So, I will end up getting a US-made rail (KZ) to replace the front grip and mount the ITAC.

 

With all this- since I am putting on 2 USA parts, where am I in compliance? Do I have to swap out anything else?

 

If Im not in 922r range, do I have to swap out the chamber & follower , and of course , with some of the USA-made ones mentioned in the forums?

 

Would using the Benelli +2 extender instead be totally out?

 

sorry for the questions- yes, I do know how to search and have been attempting to do so (also read 922r online)-but someome knowledgeable probably knows this right of the top of their head. Im not trying to be lazy.

 

Anything else I am missing in this?

[Steve1968LS2]

My understanding is that you need three USA parts.. like the foregrip, mag tube and follower.

 

Two is not enough..

[barometric]

from threads I read on here, it looks like people were using USA handguard rails to count as one, thats why the KZ brand. But are rails in the list of parts that count? It looks like users on this forum think so because thats why they are sticking with the USA rails.

Can any of those folks chime in?

[Hookster]

1) yeah-newbie to here. My son is a Marine and thats what we're getting me (its a consumer M1014- not a Marine issue!)

2) It has the upgrade collapsible tube in the stock, so not just fixed.

3) I asked him about a light, and while we were at a show, he picked up a ITAC-TDL1- which is American-made and has grip,light,laser. He said it was very hard to get one.

So, I will end up getting a US-made rail (KZ) to replace the front grip and mount the ITAC.

 

With all this- since I am putting on 2 USA parts, where am I in compliance? Do I have to swap out anything else?

 

If Im not in 922r range, do I have to swap out the chamber & follower , and of course , with some of the USA-made ones mentioned in the forums?

 

Would using the Benelli +2 extender instead be totally out?

 

sorry for the questions- yes, I do know how to search and have been attempting to do so (also read 922r online)-but someome knowledgeable probably knows this right of the top of their head. Im not trying to be lazy.

 

Anything else I am missing in this?

 

Hey Barometric, You don't need to worry about 922r unless you are increasing the magazine capacity of the weapon. Did you mean that it has a collapsable stock or just a solid pistol grip stock with a recoil tube that can accept a collapsable stock. There is a difference in the number of parts that need to be replaced if you wanted to have a collapsable stock AND increase mag capacity. Actually I don't think there are currently enough US made parts to make that combination happen. Here's a thread that covers this subject fairly well

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19539&highlight=922r

 

If you have a standard (non collapsable) stock and wish to increase mag capacity. You can add

 

1 a US made mag tube (like a Carriercomp)

2 a US made mag follower (like a Brownells)

3 a US made forearm (KZ or Surefire)

 

and you will be in compliance

 

Later,

Hookster

[agm65ccip]

1) yeah-newbie to here. My son is a Marine and thats what we're getting me (its a consumer M1014- not a Marine issue!)

2) It has the upgrade collapsible tube in the stock, so not just fixed.

3) I asked him about a light, and while we were at a show, he picked up a ITAC-TDL1- which is American-made and has grip,light,laser. He said it was very hard to get one.

So, I will end up getting a US-made rail (KZ) to replace the front grip and mount the ITAC.

 

With all this- since I am putting on 2 USA parts, where am I in compliance? Do I have to swap out anything else?

 

If Im not in 922r range, do I have to swap out the chamber & follower , and of course , with some of the USA-made ones mentioned in the forums?

 

Would using the Benelli +2 extender instead be totally out?

 

sorry for the questions- yes, I do know how to search and have been attempting to do so (also read 922r online)-but someome knowledgeable probably knows this right of the top of their head. Im not trying to be lazy.

 

Anything else I am missing in this?

 

Much reading you have:

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20825&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20338&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19539&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19579&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19415&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18772&highlight=M4+922r

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17999&highlight=M4+922r

 

In the end it comes down to your level of comfort with interpreting the law/full compliance or "getting caught"...

[barometric]

it has a collapsable stock using all Benelli parts- not a machined tube or replacement .

 

So as long as I keep it at 4+1, the code doesnt matter for the rest of the firearm?

Edited December 27, 2009 by barometric

[Hookster]

Correct

[barometric]

(double post)

[barometric]

I read on the top of page 2 of a letter a forum member got back from ATF the line , "when equipped with the standard buttstock, or the non-telescoping pistol grip buttstock assembly..."

 

Does the collapsable (telescoping) stock make it fall under the 920r (like more than 5 rounds does),

or does the collapsable stock just add more parts (to the 13 that ATF recognizes in the M4)- and still wont matter if just a 5-round gun?

[Hookster]

the collapsable stock just add more parts (to the 13 that ATF recognizes in the M4)- and still wont matter if just a 5-round gun?

 

The quote section above is the correct interpretation. The collapsable stock would be considered two seperate parts.

But as long as you don't increase capacity, your fine

 

Hookster

[barometric]

I'm reading in ATF (Title 27) 478.11 (terminology) that a SAW can be a semiauto shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

 

"(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine"

 

So for this pistol grip definition (#2), does the one on the buttstock fit this description of "beneath the action"- or only if you added one onto a rail that replaced the stock forestock?

Edited December 27, 2009 by barometric

[Hookster]

I'm reading in ATF (Title 27) 478.11 (terminology) that a SAW can be a semiauto shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

 

"(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine"

 

So for this pistol grip definition (#2), does the one on the buttstock fit this description of "beneath the action"- or only if you added one onto a rail that replaced the stock forestock?

 

You are looking at things that pertain to the federal assault weapon laws which expired in 2004

 

Check here:

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/saws-and-lcafds.html

 

And check out #2

 

Later,

Hookster

[barometric]

You are looking at things that pertain to the federal assault weapon laws which expired in 2004

 

Check here:

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/saws-and-lcafds.html

 

And check out #2

 

Later,

Hookster

 

I kinda wondered what of this still mattered- but the pdf I took this out of had "Gun Control Act" and is dated 2005?

Edited December 27, 2009 by barometric

[Hookster]

I kinda wondered what of this still mattered- but the pdf I took this out of had "Gun Control Act" and is dated 2005?

 

As far as I know (I'm not a lawyer) You're fine with your M4 in it's current collapsable stock configuration. If you want to modify it to increase your mag capacity, You might want to consider putting a fixed stock on to help make 922r compliance easier. Here's my 922r compliant beast.

 

 

Later,

Hookster

[barometric]

be-a-u-tiful

[barometric]

I wish I was a lawyer-as I read that list, and look at your gun, you only have 1 thing on that list, the hicap mag itself. So, thats not 2 items from the list, and you wouldnt need to change anything else as far as compliance. So if someone with a stock M4/1014 added an extender, they would only have 1 of the 4 items, and wouldnt need to change anything else. But who knows. One guy asked atf about just adding an extended mag, and they said he has to have only 10 foreign parts.

 

But line 4, "The ability..." Does that mean if they find that a detachable mag IS AVAILABLE SOMEWHERE (store,internet,etc) for the M4, that it would count as 1 of the 2 stikes? :confused:

Or, if you have whatever mounting hardware from a detachable mag unit assembled to the gun? (more likely the latter.)

 

Plus, its funny where they have the "and" at the end of line 3 about the hicap mag. Why have it there at all if its just a list?

Edited December 27, 2009 by barometric

[Hookster]

As far as 922r, If you install a Benelli +2 extender. You're increasing the capacity without adding a US made part, So you would still need to add 3 US made parts. This will probably be possible in a few months when Mesa comes out with their Urbino stock. It's talked about in this thread (pics are in post #34)

 

http://www.mesatactical.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=722

 

But you should probably take a look at the US made full length titanium tubes from Kip at Carriercomp. They are better than any OEM tube

 

http://www.shop.carriercomp.com/

 

 

Later,

 

Hookster

[barometric]

what brand of rails are you using?

 

do the rails count as replacing the forearm (thus , using 1 USA part?)

[Hookster]

what brand of rails are you using?

 

do the rails count as replacing the forearm (thus , using 1 USA part?)

 

The rail system I use is Sidearmor. Since the top rail is not one of the 13 parts that the ATF considers the M4 to be comprised of, it does nothing towards reducing your parts count to 10. I have it to mount light /switch/ optics to. I also have the Surefire M80 forend (which has rails on it) Since it's a US made part and forend is one of the 13 parts it reduces my count to 12. When I add the US made tube and follower, I am at 10 parts. The Magic Number!

 

 

Later,

Hookster

[barometric]

sounds good. thanks!