taylaboy Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Was just wondering if any of you guys had suggestions/input for camo touch up efforts on the Reciever of my M4. I am in the process of trying to remove my Magazine Tube, and the sucker just wont start turning no matter how hot I get it. Unfortunately, the vice I put it in has stripped a good portion of the Camo finish off of it and there is exposed metal now. I am really not scared to have a weapon with imperfections, but I dont want to invite corossion. Any advice on this is certainly appreciated, as well as how to turn this damn magazine tube off. I followed everyones instructions from past threads and have all the tools needed, but it wont turn for sh*T. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Did you pad the vice in any way? Scrap wood blocks are your friend. I wouldn't recommend rags because of the high heat involved. What are you heating it with? Electric heat gun or a propane torch? I can't stress enough how easy it is to wist one of these receivers. You do not want to be applying high torque to remove the tube. Think of an AR15 upper. If you barrel it without a receiver block, you risk deforming the upper. The same applies here. However, there is no receiver block. So you have to break the loctite down completely before. If needed, heat it for 5 minutes, try. Heat for 5 more minutes, try again and so on. If it still won't let up, you're going to need a propane torch. If you're using a strap wrench, don't use it to gain additional torque. You will really cry if that receiver twists on your 1500 dollar zombie killer. When you put the receiver in the vice with the blocks, you don't have to tighten it to flatten a penny. You're holding it in place in order to prevent receiver movement and to counteract your rotational force on the magazine tube. As for the paint, get a small can of duracoat. It probably won't match perfectly, but it is better than bare aluminum. Or pay to have it professionally refinished. Post pictures of the damage if you can. Maybe get a brown color and add a new darker camo patch across the damaged area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 I mistakenly put it in a cheap table top clamp vice I bought, and didnt think I would be applying much torque so didnt pad it, and was obviously wrong. I have been using a heat gun to heat the Receiver and tube, while checking the surface areas with an infared thermometer to make sure its 250 Degrees + , and I have done this for around 10-15 mins at a time. I thought a propane torch would cause damage to the receiver??? My guess is, I am not letting the locktite melt down good enough yet and just need to keep it at the 250+ mark for a good while longer. I will take some photos this evening when I get back from the office. I will also get some wood blocks immediately, and should have started with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Here are Kip's instructions. He advises against using a torch for potentially discoloring the receiver. Were you applying the heat mostly to the receiver or the magazine tube? Tools required; > Heat gun.(Refrain from using flame devices, torches, etc., they are overkill and have the potential of discoloring the finish on the receiver) > Snap ring pliers. >Stiff nylon or brass bristled tooth-brush, Q-tips and acetone. > Rubber grip pad. (Similar to a jar lid gripper, or even a piece of tire inner tube) >Padded vise. (not required but helpful if done alone without an assistant) Before proceeding please ensure the firearm is completely unloaded, clear mag tube and chamber, firearm on safe. Lock the bolt to the rear, then remove the factory barrel nut (by hand), set the barrel, bolt group, and handguards to the side. Using snap ring pliers set to compress when gripped, carefully remove the spring retainer from the end of the factory mag tube, (keep it aimed away from your face, with your other hand over the end so that the spring can be safely contained when it is "set free"). Then tilt the gun downwards, allowing the spring and follower to fall out. Place gun in a lightly clamped padded vise, between your knees, or in the hands of a competent assistant. Using the heat gun set to a maximum 400 F, apply direct heat to the full circumference of the mag tube where it meets the receiver, allowing heat to reach the receiver as well, continue rotating the heat around the junction until the two are beyond unbearable to touch (using an infra-red thermometer if available, you will typically see results when the receiver temp nears 250F), favor application of heat to the receiver, as it retains heat more efficiently. At that temp (around 250F) you should be able to begin twisting the factory tube off [ccw](here's where the rubber grip pad does double duty as a heat shield, and provides much better grip than bare hands). Do not use a pipe wrench for a few reasons, 1st it will damage your factory tube, but foremost it will provide excessive torque that may allow you to force removal before the loc-tite is ready to let go. Once it starts to turn, the battle is won, just keep it turning until it is free. Next clean the internal threads with acetone, Q-tips, and the nylon or brass tooth brush. It will look scary at 1st since the residue from the factory loc-tite is chalky white, but once you have it all cleaned off, you should be looking at the pristine black anodized receiver threads where the old tube use to be. You are now ready to install your replacement tube. Don't forget to transfer the handguard's stamped steel rear brace onto the new tube BEFORE threading it into the receiver, it is a "captured part" that has to be in place during assembly. Most people opt to fore-go the use of loc-tite, simply torqing in their new tube as tight as can be done by hand. If you use loc-tite, make sure you check the data sheet, and select a grade that can be heated for removal with LOW HEAT like the factory used. Typically just a drop of medium strength Loc-Tite brand "blue" will be sufficient if you use any at all. Replace all the remaining components, and enjoy!! Logistically the biggest hurdle is sourcing a heat gun, and commiting to DO IT. Once it's finished, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Surprising actually how many people are afraid of loc-tite, and default to the two round (higher priced) Benelli steel extender tubes as their only recourse, many of which now huddle in our scrap bins... rusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Those are the instructions I was actually following. I was focusing the heatgun (first attempt) right on where the tube goes into the receiver. (20 mins give or take total) Second time (next day) I did the receiver and the base of the tube for about 15 mins or so, and it still wouldnt turn. Thats about the time I noticed the great job I did on the receiver, so I decided to stop for the day. I am expecting Kip's Titanium Tube in the Mail sometime this week, so I was just trying to take the tube off this weekend while I had the time. So do you think I am just not allowing the locktite to melt? I have never used it, so I am not familiar with its personality. That would be the logical assumption I am guessing, but I am not sure. I ordered some Duracoat today for the touch up,so I really appreciate the advice. Especially on twisting the receiver...I am going to approach this much more carefully from here on out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 My guess is that the outer surface might be at the target temperature. However, the heat probably isn't penetrating around the circumference of the threads. What's the max output of your heatgun? The one I got from Lowes is rated at a 1000 degrees. It was only like 35 bucks. What you can try is, remove the trigger group and bolt carrier, then direct the heat at the receiver side of the magazine tube. If you end up using a torch, I would not put it on the exterior finish. I'd focus the heat on the tube itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Sounds like we got the same Heatgun (1000) output, cheapie from home depot. I am going to take more time with it and just heat the living piss out of it. I have the Bolt release Pad coming this week too, but I want to put Kip's Tube on this sucker first. Gunsmith I am not!! I will let you know when I got it off, but I am confident your correct..just the surface has gotten hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 I got it off. Problem was the rubber grip pads wouldnt bite. I just used an old oily rifle rag and it popped right off. Thanks for taking the time to help stranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Glad to hear you got it off. I took some photographs of the removal job. Mine wasn't quite as tough as yours was. I have a theory that the 300 round torture tests I did in the past may have baked the locktite. I applied heat for about 2 or 3 minutes before I was able to unscrew the magazine tube by hand. I used balsa wood blocks for my vice. Bolt locked to the rear to add rigidity to the receiver. Here is the threads after I pulled the tube. It looks nasty, but it was very easy to clean with Brake Free Powder Blast. Here is after I cleaned up the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 A well worn receiver! That's what I like to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I am expecting Kip's Titanium Tube in the Mail sometime this week, so I was just trying to take the tube off this weekend while I had the time. So do you think I am just not allowing the locktite to melt? I have never used it, so I am not familiar with its personality. That would be the logical assumption I am guessing, but I am not sure. I ordered some Duracoat today for the touch up,so I really appreciate the advice. Especially on twisting the receiver...I am going to approach this much more carefully from here on out. If this is Jason, I hope your tube has arrived by now as it would be overdue if not. In the mean time, let's hope you got that tube off. The chalky appearance (like in Stranger's great pic) is normal for the loc-tite after removal, as it pulverizes due to the thread action against the cured compound, which is not really liquified or melted during heating, more like softenned, so when it begins to twist it feels like a shovel in thick clay. +1 on Duggan's statement... a well worn receiver is a sight to behold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Jason... Just checked tracking details. Since it shipped Monday, and USPS Priority mail is 2-3 days, I'm guessing it will arrive today or tomorrow. For some reason I thought today was Friday..... probably last Friday since I rarely have time to sleep. (I'M NOT A ZOMBIE -- DON'T SHOOT!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hey Kip, Dont sweat it brother, I would never throw a tantrum. As a former grunt, I know the "Hurry up and Wait" Mantra all too well. I got the tube off yesterday without a hitch and it looked excactly like Dangers. The culprit was the cheap rubber grip I was using, it was my fault. I have her all cleaned up and ready to go now. I definitely plan on getting your rail, and charging handle when they become available as well my friend I will keep monitoring your site, and looking forward to having a compcarrier tricked out zombie getter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 err, carriercomp, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks! I like the worn look also. It keeps you from babying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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