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2.75" OOO Buckshot Testing


Unobtanium

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this is no joke. my buddy is a deputy with the local SO and a master of arms in the navy.

 

he's done 2 tours in kuwait, working at a us prison guarding our soldiers that have comitted crimes while deployed. he's also been fbi & army trained to be a weapons instructor and a range master.

 

for normal in house short range birdshot does just fine and it won't go through the walls to kill your kids while they're sleeping.

 

or in unobtanium's case his appartment complex's neighbors. :)

 

So, you are telling me something that can't penetrate 3/4" of sheetrock will knock a 240# man in a leather jacket down for the count?

 

That is like me saying "My car is awesome! It isn't capable of going over 70, so I can't get tickets. But I bet it would DESTROY your Supra from a highway punch!"

 

It is a complete contradiction.

 

Yes, birdshot HAS worked before, but more often than not, it doesn't. ESPECIALLY when clothing with some "give" is involved, such as a thick winter jacket worn loosely.

 

In fact, I am going to do some testing to this effect if I can find a heavy coat that doesn't fit me anymore. I will use a heavy coat and soaked phone-books. We just got new phone books today.

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i didn't say down for the count but if will knock him on his butt. I have no problem using buckshot, people just need to be cautious when using it in closely populated areas.

 

People need to be cautious when shooting, period, but I am not going to hamstring myself that bad. The smallest I would use is #4 Buck across the room.

 

PS. Could not find #1 Buck, probably won't be testing it.

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I was cutting shells apart (I like to know what's what) when I made a discovery. The OO Remington buckshot has a full shot-cup with an integrated "buffer" setup and white granules of buffer. It can be viewed here:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/am_ss_std.htm

 

The rest of the remington buck has a cardboard buffer with white granules of buffer.

 

Being a detail oriented person, I searched the boxes until I found different markings denoting the change. The ONLY thing I found as a clue was the date of the LLC trade-mark on the cardboard buffered stuff, it was 2006. The "Power Piston Wad" stuff was LLC 2009. That is the ONLY difference on the box.

 

I expect great things being as this junk has a shot-cup to keep the buck from deforming in the barrel or "shaving". I am VERY curious to see how it performs. As noted, the OO is the ONLY Buckshot load to recieve this wad from Remington. I have an idea it has to do with the way the OO "Stacks" in the shell, compared to larger or smaller pellets perhapse. Lending to the wadding being more feasible in some way.

 

The old revision can be seen here in this photo:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/buckshot/express.asp

 

PS. I have some Winchester Super X and Supreme XX Buck in OO that I will compare the remington stuff to. Let's see if the power-piston wad is the end-all, or just more marketing crap and look-good material.

 

Here are the respective wadding systems along with a picture of the buckshot sizes to be tested. Each shell in 2.75" holds the amount of shot shown. Obvious exceptions are the 12-pellet OO loads from Winchester and Remington and other non-standard items (8-pellet red. recoil, etc).

 

sdmumo.jpg

Edited by Unobtanium
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i hope you can locate some #1 buck. check this quote.

 

Peter Capstick said this about buckshot selection in Death in the Dark Continent

 

Quote:

"I would like to mention one very important factor in choosing a buckshot load for dangerous game, and that concerns shot size selection. Most people would automatically pick 00 buck simply becuause it's so well know through TV westerns. In fact, the 12-pellet 12-gauge "baby magnum" load of 00 is considerably inferior to the same maximum powder loading of small NO. 1 buckshot in the same shell. The difference lies in the simple and astonishingly obvious fact that at .33 caliber, 00 buck is so large in the shell that there is much wasted space that could otherwise be filled with lead if the bearing surfaces of the big, round pellets didn't have to come into contact with each other. But they must. No. 1 buck is .30 caliber, only ten percent less in diameter than 00 buck and but thirteen grains per pellet lighter. However, because of the way the pellet mass fits into the shotshell, the same shell can fire an incredible seventy-five percent more pellets than the Magnum 00 load! What this means is that when you need help in a big way, you're launching eight hundred grains of lead at better than three thousand foot-pounds at the muzzle with No. 1 buck compared with a bit over six hundred grains and not quite twenty-four hundred foot-pounds with the 00 buck. If you don't reckon that can make a significant difference, you've never had something try to eat you.

 

One might also bear in mind that eight hundred grains of lead in a swarm has the individual pellet impact area of an umbrella, for even though still in a solid mass at more or less ten yards, it covers a circular saturation point of about a 7-inch circle. Eight hundred grains, remember, equals a .458 PLUS a .375 at point blank, and you've got two barrels of the stuff, minimum.":)

 

i wonder if #1 is cheaper than 00? probably

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i hope you can locate some #1 buck. check this quote.

 

Peter Capstick said this about buckshot selection in Death in the Dark Continent

 

Quote:

"I would like to mention one very important factor in choosing a buckshot load for dangerous game, and that concerns shot size selection. Most people would automatically pick 00 buck simply becuause it's so well know through TV westerns. In fact, the 12-pellet 12-gauge "baby magnum" load of 00 is considerably inferior to the same maximum powder loading of small NO. 1 buckshot in the same shell. The difference lies in the simple and astonishingly obvious fact that at .33 caliber, 00 buck is so large in the shell that there is much wasted space that could otherwise be filled with lead if the bearing surfaces of the big, round pellets didn't have to come into contact with each other. But they must. No. 1 buck is .30 caliber, only ten percent less in diameter than 00 buck and but thirteen grains per pellet lighter. However, because of the way the pellet mass fits into the shotshell, the same shell can fire an incredible seventy-five percent more pellets than the Magnum 00 load! What this means is that when you need help in a big way, you're launching eight hundred grains of lead at better than three thousand foot-pounds at the muzzle with No. 1 buck compared with a bit over six hundred grains and not quite twenty-four hundred foot-pounds with the 00 buck. If you don't reckon that can make a significant difference, you've never had something try to eat you.

 

 

One might also bear in mind that eight hundred grains of lead in a swarm has the individual pellet impact area of an umbrella, for even though still in a solid mass at more or less ten yards, it covers a circular saturation point of about a 7-inch circle. Eight hundred grains, remember, equals a .458 PLUS a .375 at point blank, and you've got two barrels of the stuff, minimum.":)

 

i wonder if #1 is cheaper than 00? probably

 

 

 

I agree that #1 is a GREAT load, but I question it's ability to meet the 12" penetration criteria that the FBI (and I) feel is important, when the range gets out to 50 yards (The range at which I feel that effective patterns can be achieved with correct choke/shell combinations.

 

The last setup I had would put no fewer than 7 pellets of OO into a 14x16" target at 50 yards. Ergo, penetration at 50y is important to me even though buck is not meant for 50 yards.

 

Nonetheless! I think #1 buck is GREAT! stuff and wish I could locate some. I will try.

 

Here is the muzzle-energy of the buckshot I have based on the box's listed MV and commonly accepted weights for the pellets.

 

OOO=2184

OO=1899 w/9 pellets and 2400 w/12

O=2076

#4=2106

 

I also found on remington's website the pellet-count and velocity of their #1Buck. The energy from this round is: 2224

 

Yes, at the muzzle it has more energy than OO, and a HAIR more than OOO, but how much more (or less?) energy will it have at 10 yards, or 20? Remember, a sphere bleeds energy FAST.

 

For shits and grins, the 3" stuff (the #1 is winchester, as remington does not load these in 3"):

 

OOO: 2330

OO: 2700

#1: 2304

#4: 2747

 

In retrospect, I don't know what load they are talking about in the work you cited. Nothing in 2.75" came closer than 600# away from 3,000# energy.

 

Also, anyone using buckshot in Africa is an idiot unless it's a back-up gun for use at close quarters against thin-skinned cats. Then OOOO was a popular load, with OOO being slightly less preferred. It worked OK from what I understand. Still. In Africa, I would take that .458 in a heartbeat over buckshot. Hands down.

Edited by Unobtanium
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i just did a quick google search and it's either sold out or listed as a seasonal item. yea 50 yards is pushing it. i usually have 00 for my 1st 3 shells and the rest in the tube are slugs. i figure i'll get them in the door way and blast them as they run away but i'm out in the boonies on farm land.

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There was somebody in my town that had a thief break in and he shot him with 1 1/2oz of 6 shot it didnt kill him but it blinded him instantly and made a mess of his face stopping him untill the police came and the extra pellets didnt go through the wall keeping his family safe. If you see an animal in your back yard worth killing thats what the rifles in your collection are for.

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Edited by Trapshooter1
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There was somebody in my town that had a thief break in and he shot him with 1 1/2oz of 6 shot it didnt kill him but it blinded him instantly and made a mess of his face stopping him untill the police came and the extra pellets didnt go through the wall keeping his family safe. If you see an animal in your back yard worth killing thats what the rifles in your collection are for.

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a-s-sume makes an a-s-s out of u and me

 

 

Why shouldn't I use the shotgun? Is there a logical reason why the shotgun should not be employed? Using my 20ga years ago and that horrid #3 buckshot load that they make for it, I dropped a coyote no problem from a pretty good distance (30-40y?) in my front yard. It seemed to work just fine.

 

Also, as to the instance where the BG was stopped with #6. There are plenty more instances where they were not. I remember one such story where an officer was practicing with birdshot at the range. Anyways, he forgot to reload is shotgun with buck for duty. That night he encountered and shot multiple times an armed suspect in the line of duty. That officer is now dead.

 

Also, now that blind theif can sue, claiming that the home-owner loaded #6 as "an attept to cause the most suffering possible" with the specific goal of blinding and mangling someone. He will claim that the home-owner is sadistic and had planned to shoot someone in the face, otherwise, he would have just fired at COM. THe home-owner clearly is a sadist who wanted to disfigure, maim, and emotionally destroy someone. The jury will then be asked to close their eyes, and imagine that just because they were hard up for some money to fix their radiator, and made a bad call, that now they will ahve to live just like they are now...unable to see. The man will become unemployable in any menaingful way, and his family will now suffer. He has 3 kids? Did you know that? Yep. Their only hope is that that sadist of a home-owner now pay reparations to the family.

 

I would rather just kill the BG. Castle Doctrine. Open/shut case. Buckshot all the way.

Edited by Unobtanium
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i just did a quick google search and it's either sold out or listed as a seasonal item. yea 50 yards is pushing it. i usually have 00 for my 1st 3 shells and the rest in the tube are slugs. i figure i'll get them in the door way and blast them as they run away but i'm out in the boonies on farm land.

 

 

I have heard time and time again from people who know better than I that candy-caning is not a good thing. I am just passing this along.

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I have heard time and time again from people who know better than I that candy-caning is not a good thing. I am just passing this along.

 

Fair enough. candy caning slugs and 00 is the best ticket for my situation. That's what's so great about shotguns. the versatility of using different ammo. I can start with a #7, then 4-00 buck and then 2-slugs. gotta love it!

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Fair enough. candy caning slugs and 00 is the best ticket for my situation. That's what's so great about shotguns. the versatility of using different ammo. I can start with a #7, then 4-00 buck and then 2-slugs. gotta love it!

 

I think the reason they recommend against it is this:

 

Someone kicks your door in, you "set up" in your hall-way protecting your family in the bedroom. You see the guy in the hall, your adrenaline is pumping and you ID him as an unknown, he charges at you and you begin dumping lead. Was it 3 shots or 4? 5 or 6? Is the next round OO or a slug? You don't know, and you don't care.

 

About that time your bedroom window blows in and some thug lunges into the room. Grabbing your wife and placing a knife against her throat.

 

What's next? Buckshot or a slug? Are you sure...how sure? Was it 3, or 4 rounds you put into the thug in the hall? Maybe 5 or 6? Can you live with yourself if you are wrong? What now? Remember, every second you FAIL to act, that thug is growing more and more secure in his thinking that you WON'T act. He grows more purposeful and bold as you grow more divided and scared.

 

Had you stuck with all OO (or the single load of your choice), and patterned your loads properly, you would know that at that distance, if you aim 3-4" to the right of the guys head, your wife will be MUCH less in danger of a stray pellet than the angry thug's knife after figuring out you killed his partner.

 

Had you stuck with slugs, you could drill him in the forehead and be done with it.

 

But you don't know WHAT is up next. Could a slug pass harmlessly 3" to the right of his head and he ram the knife into her cervical vertebra/trach/jugular? Could you try to drill him in the forehead, only to have unthinkable collateral from the buckshot?

 

I guess this is the reasoning behind not candy-caning.

 

Now, if you life alone, and would not need to take a shot like I just outlined, then maybe it isn't such an issue. Not everything works for everyone. However, just food for thought.

Edited by Unobtanium
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Why shouldn't I use the shotgun? Is there a logical reason why the shotgun should not be employed? Using my 20ga years ago and that horrid #3 buckshot load that they make for it, I dropped a coyote no problem from a pretty good distance (30-40y?) in my front yard. It seemed to work just fine.

 

Also, as to the instance where the BG was stopped with #6. There are plenty more instances where they were not. I remember one such story where an officer was practicing with birdshot at the range. Anyways, he forgot to reload is shotgun with buck for duty. That night he encountered and shot multiple times an armed suspect in the line of duty. That officer is now dead.

 

Also, now that blind theif can sue, claiming that the home-owner loaded #6 as "an attept to cause the most suffering possible" with the specific goal of blinding and mangling someone. He will claim that the home-owner is sadistic and had planned to shoot someone in the face, otherwise, he would have just fired at COM. THe home-owner clearly is a sadist who wanted to disfigure, maim, and emotionally destroy someone. The jury will then be asked to close their eyes, and imagine that just because they were hard up for some money to fix their radiator, and made a bad call, that now they will ahve to live just like they are now...unable to see. The man will become unemployable in any menaingful way, and his family will now suffer. He has 3 kids? Did you know that? Yep. Their only hope is that that sadist of a home-owner now pay reparations to the family.

 

I would rather just kill the BG. Castle Doctrine. Open/shut case. Buckshot all the way.

 

There is no reason why a shotgun should not be used but obviously I was talking about a shotgun loaded with 6. If you are in your home with a coyote in your yard you can put buckshot or a slug in without the coyote hearing you or you can use a rifle. I have shotguns for HD and shotguns for deer or coyotes or whatever. If I was a police officer not worrying about killing my kids and knowing I might have to use it for longer range I would load buckshot in my shotgun. I think I would have to see real evidence of a BG sewing someone for shooting them with bird shot on purpose not in self defense to believe it is possible. I would use buckshot if I lived by my self.

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I think the reason they recommend against it is this:

 

Someone kicks your door in, you "set up" in your hall-way protecting your family in the bedroom. You see the guy in the hall, your adrenaline is pumping and you ID him as an unknown, he charges at you and you begin dumping lead. Was it 3 shots or 4? 5 or 6? Is the next round OO or a slug? You don't know, and you don't care.

 

About that time your bedroom window blows in and some thug lunges into the room. Grabbing your wife and placing a knife against her throat.

 

What's next? Buckshot or a slug? Are you sure...how sure? Was it 3, or 4 rounds you put into the thug in the hall? Maybe 5 or 6? Can you live with yourself if you are wrong? What now? Remember, every second you FAIL to act, that thug is growing more and more secure in his thinking that you WON'T act. He grows more purposeful and bold as you grow more divided and scared.

 

Had you stuck with all OO (or the single load of your choice), and patterned your loads properly, you would know that at that distance, if you aim 3-4" to the right of the guys head, your wife will be MUCH less in danger of a stray pellet than the angry thug's knife after figuring out you killed his partner.

 

Had you stuck with slugs, you could drill him in the forehead and be done with it.

 

But you don't know WHAT is up next. Could a slug pass harmlessly 3" to the right of his head and he ram the knife into her cervical vertebra/trach/jugular? Could you try to drill him in the forehead, only to have unthinkable collateral from the buckshot?

 

I guess this is the reasoning behind not candy-caning.

 

Now, if you life alone, and would not need to take a shot like I just outlined, then maybe it isn't such an issue. Not everything works for everyone. However, just food for thought.

 

I think I use 6 instead of buck is because of this:

 

Someone kicks your door in, you "set up" in your hall-way protecting your wife in the bedroom. You see the guy in the hall, your adrenaline is pumping and you ID him as an unknown, he charges at you and you begin dumping lead. You kill him and call the police. You go to wake up your daughter and make sure she is alright and guess what a pellet went through her door and killed her.

 

I guess this is the reasoning behind not using buck shot.

 

Now, if you live alone, and would not have to worry about your children or wife, then maybe it isn't such an issue. Not everything works for everyone. However, just food for thought.

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I think I use 6 instead of buck is because of this:

 

Someone kicks your door in, you "set up" in your hall-way protecting your wife in the bedroom. You see the guy in the hall, your adrenaline is pumping and you ID him as an unknown, he charges at you and you begin dumping lead. You kill him and call the police. You go to wake up your daughter and make sure she is alright and guess what a pellet went through her door and killed her.

 

I guess this is the reasoning behind not using buck shot.

 

Now, if you live alone, and would not have to worry about your children or wife, then maybe it isn't such an issue. Not everything works for everyone. However, just food for thought.

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a-s-sume makes an a-s-s out of u and me

 

There is a point, and a counterpoint for everything. I personally don't think one should use their daughter's bedroom as their backstop. However, someone might indeed do this. Who knows.

 

How about this?

 

You hear a noise, adrenaline pumping, the BG runs into the hall, charging you, and you shoot him. At that point your daughter, who you didn't know was in the kitchen getting some milk when the BG kicked in the door hears the gunshot and comes running to investigate to see if daddy is okay/what occured. You are glancing into the bedroom to look back at your wife and assure her you are okay and are so keyed up that when she lunges around the corner and you catch a glimps of her quick-moving form charging in to hug you, you spin and fire. She catches a full load of #6 in the throat/face area.

 

You shouldn't have a gun. Pepper spray and tasers are best. They don't allow you to accidentally kill anyone.

 

See where this is going? Give me a lethal tool and the know-how to use it as safely as possible. Everyone else can have their pepper-spray, #6 birdshot, and WWJD bracelets. Different strokes, as they say.

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There is a point, and a counterpoint for everything. I personally don't think one should use their daughter's bedroom as their backstop. However, someone might indeed do this. Who knows.

 

How about this?

 

You hear a noise, adrenaline pumping, the BG runs into the hall, charging you, and you shoot him. At that point your daughter, who you didn't know was in the kitchen getting some milk when the BG kicked in the door hears the gunshot and comes running to investigate to see if daddy is okay/what occured. You are glancing into the bedroom to look back at your wife and assure her you are okay and are so keyed up that when she lunges around the corner and you catch a glimps of her quick-moving form charging in to hug you, you spin and fire. She catches a full load of #6 in the throat/face area.

 

You shouldn't have a gun. Pepper spray and tasers are best. They don't allow you to accidentally kill anyone.

 

See where this is going? Give me a lethal tool and the know-how to use it as safely as possible. Everyone else can have their pepper-spray, #6 birdshot, and WWJD bracelets. Different strokes, as they say.

 

That is a really good point and I could say something else and we could go on and on arguing but I respect your opinion and I have mine and I doubt we will change each others.

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That is a really good point and I could say something else and we could go on and on arguing but I respect your opinion and I have mine and I doubt we will change each others.

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+1

 

mustbetencharacterslong

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I think I use 6 instead of buck is because of this:

 

Someone kicks your door in, you "set up" in your hall-way protecting your wife in the bedroom. You see the guy in the hall, your adrenaline is pumping and you ID him as an unknown, he charges at you and you begin dumping lead. You kill him and call the police. You go to wake up your daughter and make sure she is alright and guess what a pellet went through her door and killed her.

 

I guess this is the reasoning behind not using buck shot.

 

Now, if you live alone, and would not have to worry about your children or wife, then maybe it isn't such an issue. Not everything works for everyone. However, just food for thought.

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a-s-sume makes an a-s-s out of u and me

 

2371224505_208c8589a1.jpg

 

Do you also use a 20 gauge because it is more controllable? :p

 

I guess I just don't understand your mentality ... the idea, as I see it, is to make yourself and your weapon MORE effective, not to intentionally gimp yourself by using sub optimal rounds for the intended purpose ... which is to destroy the threat.

 

****, may as well use rubber birdshot, that probably won't even break the guys skin, let alone your daughters wall.

Edited by Duggan
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Do you also use a 20 gauge because it is more controllable? :p

 

I guess I just don't understand your mentality ... the idea, as I see it, is to make yourself and your weapon MORE effective, not to intentionally gimp yourself by using sub optimal rounds for the intended purpose ... which is to destroy the threat.

 

****, may as well use rubber birdshot, that probably won't even break the guys skin, let alone your daughters wall.

 

I use 6 because it is the biggest I know doesn't penetrate walls and doors. You problably use 12 gauge 2.75 buckshot, why dont you use 10 gauge 3.5"s that would be more effective. I am not in to HD shotguns there is almost no crime rate so I dont really care. Some day I will test different loads to see what penetrates a door. If any body knows I wold like to know.

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I use 6 because it is the biggest I know doesn't penetrate walls and doors. You problably use 12 gauge 2.75 buckshot, why dont you use 10 gauge 3.5"s that would be more effective. I am not in to HD shotguns there is almost no crime rate so I dont really care. Some day I will test different loads to see what penetrates a door. If any body knows I wold like to know.

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Would it? What about capacity? Follow-up shots? Can you point me to a good 9-shot 10 gauge that has a proven track record or performance?

 

It would seem that you do indeed care. You have carefully selected a load and given a rationale for it.

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Would it? What about capacity? Follow-up shots? Can you point me to a good 9-shot 10 gauge that has a proven track record or performance?

 

It would seem that you do indeed care. You have carefully selected a load and given a rationale for it.

 

It would be more effective for each individual shot but I guess you got me there I was just trying to make a point. I dont care that much because there isn't much crime around here. Maybe I will start using some bigger loads. I will probably test today what will go through a 1.5" door.

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Ok I did some testing and here is what I got with a 1.5" piece of hickory

3 dram 1 oz 7.5 shot did not penetrate

3 3/4 dram 1 1/4 oz 6 shot did not penetrate

4 dram 2 oz 4 shot did not penetrate

2 3/4 inch 9 00B pellets penetrated

 

I dont have a vary good variety of shotgun shells right now its a big jump from 4 to 00B so I will buy some smaller buck shot and try it.

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Ok I did some testing and here is what I got with a 1.5" piece of hickory

3 dram 1 oz 7.5 shot did not penetrate

3 3/4 dram 1 1/4 oz 6 shot did not penetrate

4 dram 2 oz 4 shot did not penetrate

2 3/4 inch 9 00B pellets penetrated

 

I dont have a vary good variety of shotgun shells right now its a big jump from 4 to 00B so I will buy some smaller buck shot and try it.

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What are your doors made of? Most interior doors are just hollow-core and my fist would reliably penetrate them.

 

I tested on 2x4's and only OOO buck would go through the 2x4 regularly. OO would about 1/2 the time. Anything smaller did not.

 

I wouldn't feel too undergunned with #4 buckshot though, I mean yeah, it only penetrates 7-11 inches, but if they are facing you, that should be enough. Even if an arm gets in the way, the pattern and volume of #4 buck will send a few pellets into the vitals I'm sure.

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"Choosing a bullet because of relatively shallow penetration will seriously compromise weapon effectiveness, and needlessly endanger the lives of the law enforcement officers using it. No law enforcement officer has lost his life because a bullet over penetrated his adversary, and virtually none have ever been sued for hitting an innocent bystander through an adversary. On the other hand, tragically large numbers of officers have been killed because their bullets did not penetrate deeply enough.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." (Special Agent Urey W. Patrick)

Trapshooter1,

Yes 6 would penetrate a hollow bedroom door. 7 1/2 will penetrate a hollow bedroom door. It can go through 2 sheets of drywall, albeit probably with less than lethal force, but certainly enough to blind a family member on the other side and let's not forget the wad.. The wad will penetrate as well and if it hits someone in the head it could kill them. If you are going to use birdshot consider using a full choke. (The wider the pattern, the more you increase the chance of collateral damage.) However, should you need to switch out for a slug, say goodbye to your barrel. Another reason to consider not using birdshot for HD.

What I'm looking for in a HD round is the one with the largest pellet diameter that produces the deepest penetration, lowest noise, lowest recoil and tightest pattern with a IC or C choke. For that I present you Federal LE127.

LE127 is copper plated 00 buckshot with "FLITECONTROL." Copper plated pellets increase penetration and have a tighter pattern than lead alone. And with its FLITECONTROL it's unbeatable. With a Cylinder choke 9 pellets at 10 yards produces a oversized slug like hole. At 25 yards I get all 9 pellets in a 6" circle. 9 .33 copper plated pellets so close together produces significant penetration and one **** of a permanent cavity.

FYI, if you can't find Federal LE127 just get Federal PFC154; it's the exact same round in a different box. (Benelli recommends using only IC or C chokes for slugs and Federal recommends using IC or C chokes for its "FLITECONTROL." In fact, using a F or IM choke with a FLITECONTROL round will deform the shot cup and open the shot up more.)

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