Which R1? .270 WSM or .300 WSM?

[bobby juice]

I am in the process of getting my first R1. I was wondering if any of you who have one could recommend either the .270WSM or .300WSM? I will mostly be deer hunting and possibly doing some Elk hunting. ny suggestions on which one would be better? Thanks for any and all help.

[tucker301]

I'd go with the .300 if elk are a possibility.

The .270 will kill elk, but the .300 will a bit more efficient at it.

[HOGWILD]

Depends on your shooting ability! if you know your ballistics and can find the vitals it's a wash! I have seen a .270 Remington non Mag drop a Cow Elk at 550 yds with the first shot. Just need to be familiar with your drop,yardage and vitals! If you will be doing mule deer and elk the .300 WSM would serve you better! If i were to purchase a new rifle it would be hands down this one cause i already have a 300 WSM BAR Semi but would like to try a bolt! http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=VMM300NSR4O tack driver, these have patterned better than a bunch of really expensive Customs and for the price would be really hard to find one more accurate! even the 399.00 ones are super accurate!

Edited November 18, 2008 by HOGWILD

[bobcat]

i have my r1 in a 306

[johnnywitt]

Get a .308. That way you have a military/NATO caliber that was designed from the ground up to shoot in semi auto/full auto weapons. You don't need a magnum, unless you just want one.

[tucker301]

While it's nearly impossible to know the exact circumstances of your hunts, if I were in your position, I'd go with the .270WSM.

Given the accuracy limitations of the R1, it's unlikely that you'll be shooting deer or elk over 300 yards or so.

At that kind of range, the .270 will be more than ample to do the job.

Just remember to make a high shoulder shot for optimum drop 'em in their tracks effect.

 

The notion of using an antique like the .308, when the WSM's are there for the taking, is boderline absurd.

Unless you're into making rainbow arching shots at 200 yards or more, the .308 is best left to die-hard stuck in their ways military and police shooters.

 

The following two posts will show the three calibers compared, using the same bullet in each.

The .270 WSM delivers in all categories.

The .308 is a rock past a couple of hundred yards.

[tucker301]

 

[tucker301]

[johnnywitt]

Do I sense some Hostility Tucker???

Man, all I was trying to do was help a guy make a choice that asked for advice, Jeez.

So a cartridge designed in the 1950's to replace the 30-06 is an ancient cartridge. The .270 is just a necked down 30-06.

.270 was introduced to the public in 1925. .308 was introduced in 1952.

.270 has the same case limitation for feeding as the 30-06 because it doesn't have enough of a case rim for good puchase of an extractor especially in a semi auto rifle. Which is why the .308 case was designed with more of a case rim and more taper and also a thicker case at the rim, so it doesn't get ripped apart, like 30-06's did in hot M1's and in MG's. Also, the 30-06 and the .270 are long action cases. Why, because way back at the turn of the century- the one before last, the powders available were extruded and needed more case capacity to achieve the same velocity. Winchester/Olin invented ball powder for the .308 and it daoesnt need near the case capacity of a 30-06 or a .270 to achieve virtually the same velocity with 150gr'ish projectiles. It used to be that you needed 180-220gr bullets to kill larger game because the bullet technology wasn't so hot and the bullets would break up. Now, the bullet technology is so good that a 150'ish grain bullet will penetrate and stay together even in the largest North American game.I like short action actions, and like I said for a semi auto the .308 is going to be far more reliable than a 30-06/.270 for when your out in the cold, or in dusty crappy conditions. Also, if your worried about trajectory in an R1 that's not going to be used past about 300yards, what the ****. It's reliability and accuracy out to about 250yards that will serve the average hunter best. This is all opinion and I don't think that the .270 is a bad cartridge. I actually like the cartridge and who can knock an '06. It is one of the all time favorite cartridges.

I know that your talking about the new WSM, but I believe that the case rim is the same, but I could be wrong.

For someone to say that the .308 is an antiquated cartridge "is borderline absurd". There's a reason most Police snipers use the .308. It's supremely accurate and uber reliable. In addition, the .308 is far more inherently accurate than a .270. Lastly, the .308 cartridge is one of the most popular cartridges in the world by hunters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester

 

I'm sure some Policia Sharpshotters, or Military snipers will be along shortly to opine about the relative antiquity and ineffectiveness of the .308/7.62X51.

Be careful kid, you'll shoot your eye out.

Edited January 29, 2009 by johnnywitt

[Mike Grasso]

Let me see if this will help answer your question without adding opinion.

 

My test-

 

"Can it to the job consistently and accurately"

 

What is the largest game = Elk

 

.300 Winchester Short Magnum (also known as .300 WSM, commonly pronounced as "Whizzum") is a .308 caliber short magnum cartridge that was introduced in 2001 by Winchester.[1] The cartridge overall length is 72.64mm, cartridge case is 53.34mm in length and the bullet diameter is 7.62 mm (common to all U.S. .30 calibre cartridges). The principle at work in the short magnum cartridge is the advantage of fitting larger volumes of powder in closer proximity to the primer's flash hole, resulting in more uniform, consistent ignition. In field use, this round mirrors the performance of its older counterpart, the .300 winchester magnum, which is based on a modified .375 holland and holland belted magnum casing.

The advantages of the newer, shorter round are limited, but worth considering. Most notably, the felt recoil of these rifles is less sharp than the longer, narrower magnums. The wide chamber allows gasses re-entering the bore after the departure of the projectile to decompress slightly before slamming into the inner base of the casing, softening the felt impact. Less important to most rifle shooters is the increase in efficiency of shorter casings, which results in greater inherent accuracy.

When addressing this topic, it is useful to consider the true degree of accuracy involved. This degree is fairly minute for most uses, and is primarily important to target shooters, and hunters who rely on a rifle to be capable of extreme long range accuracy. Very few rifle shooters are able to shoot better than their rifles, and as such, this aspect is largely academic. The basic issue at hand is that this cartridge is in a class that is already filled with numerous choices in similarly performing rounds, and has little to distinguish it but nominal increase in accuracy, and lighter felt recoil. The .300 WSM is, however, the most modern .30 caliber cartridge in the magnum class, utilizing the best available knowledge in cartridge design. As such it represents the best combination of ballistic performance, round-to-round consistency, and reduced recoil and muzzle blast.

 

.300 WSM is used in the Western United States for elk, mule deer, and whitetail and on the plains, where long range shooting is a must. Also, although relatively new, the 300 WSM has already had some success in benchrest shooting. As with all high speed large game rounds, bullet construction plays a major role in terminal ballistic performance, and is far too complex to enter in this space.

 

 

 

The .270 Winchester Short Magnum or .270 WSM is a short, unbelted, magnum Cartridge (firearms) created by necking down the .300 Winchester Short Magnum and fitting it with a .270 caliber bullet. When it was introduced, the .300 WSM sported a new case that showed a lot of promise for uses in other calibers. In 2002 Winchester introduced new cartridges in its Winchester Short Magnum family, including the 7 mm WSM and .270 WSM. This new .270 cartridge was the third commercial .270 ever produced, and the first one in 60 years. The .270 WSM is an improvement over the older .270 Winchester providing higher velocity with bullets of the same weight, and thus a flatter trajectory and more energy. Velocities tend to be about 250 ft/s (76 m/s) faster, in a cartridge that is shorter and can therefore be used in a shorter action for a more compact rifle if desired.

 

 

 

All that said.

 

The two cartridges are identical except for the bullet diameter. So now a choice is made...

 

Choose the caliber that will most likely do the job consistently and accurately. What is the largest game you will take? What caliber fits that consistently.

 

When I took my own test for a Black Bear hunt in the Alaskan wilderness, the possibility of running into other predators was high, my choice ended up being a Steyr Scout in 376 Steyr, that choice turned out very appropriate, but that's another story.

 

Mike

[tucker301]

Do I sense some Hostility Tucker???

 

Nope.

I didn't read the rest. I hope it was interesting and informative.

See above charts.

[johnnywitt]

Nope.

I didn't read the rest. I hope it was interesting and informative.

See above charts.

 

Does this mean were not friends anymore.

[tucker301]

Does this mean were not friends anymore.

 

Not at all.

I have lots of wrong friends.

[johnnywitt]

Let me see if this will help answer your question without adding opinion.

 

My test-

 

"Can it to the job consistently and accurately"

 

What is the largest game = Elk

 

.300 Winchester Short Magnum (also known as .300 WSM, commonly pronounced as "Whizzum") is a .308 caliber short magnum cartridge that was introduced in 2001 by Winchester.[1] The cartridge overall length is 72.64mm, cartridge case is 53.34mm in length and the bullet diameter is 7.62 mm (common to all U.S. .30 calibre cartridges). The principle at work in the short magnum cartridge is the advantage of fitting larger volumes of powder in closer proximity to the primer's flash hole, resulting in more uniform, consistent ignition. In field use, this round mirrors the performance of its older counterpart, the .300 winchester magnum, which is based on a modified .375 holland and holland belted magnum casing.

The advantages of the newer, shorter round are limited, but worth considering. Most notably, the felt recoil of these rifles is less sharp than the longer, narrower magnums. The wide chamber allows gasses re-entering the bore after the departure of the projectile to decompress slightly before slamming into the inner base of the casing, softening the felt impact. Less important to most rifle shooters is the increase in efficiency of shorter casings, which results in greater inherent accuracy.

When addressing this topic, it is useful to consider the true degree of accuracy involved. This degree is fairly minute for most uses, and is primarily important to target shooters, and hunters who rely on a rifle to be capable of extreme long range accuracy. Very few rifle shooters are able to shoot better than their rifles, and as such, this aspect is largely academic. The basic issue at hand is that this cartridge is in a class that is already filled with numerous choices in similarly performing rounds, and has little to distinguish it but nominal increase in accuracy, and lighter felt recoil. The .300 WSM is, however, the most modern .30 caliber cartridge in the magnum class, utilizing the best available knowledge in cartridge design. As such it represents the best combination of ballistic performance, round-to-round consistency, and reduced recoil and muzzle blast.

 

.300 WSM is used in the Western United States for elk, mule deer, and whitetail and on the plains, where long range shooting is a must. Also, although relatively new, the 300 WSM has already had some success in benchrest shooting. As with all high speed large game rounds, bullet construction plays a major role in terminal ballistic performance, and is far too complex to enter in this space.

 

 

 

The .270 Winchester Short Magnum or .270 WSM is a short, unbelted, magnum Cartridge (firearms) created by necking down the .300 Winchester Short Magnum and fitting it with a .270 caliber bullet. When it was introduced, the .300 WSM sported a new case that showed a lot of promise for uses in other calibers. In 2002 Winchester introduced new cartridges in its Winchester Short Magnum family, including the 7 mm WSM and .270 WSM. This new .270 cartridge was the third commercial .270 ever produced, and the first one in 60 years. The .270 WSM is an improvement over the older .270 Winchester providing higher velocity with bullets of the same weight, and thus a flatter trajectory and more energy. Velocities tend to be about 250 ft/s (76 m/s) faster, in a cartridge that is shorter and can therefore be used in a shorter action for a more compact rifle if desired.

 

 

 

All that said.

 

The two cartridges are identical except for the bullet diameter. So now a choice is made...

 

Choose the caliber that will most likely do the job consistently and accurately. What is the largest game you will take? What caliber fits that consistently.

 

When I took my own test for a Black Bear hunt in the Alaskan wilderness, the possibility of running into other predators was high, my choice ended up being a Steyr Scout in 376 Steyr, that choice turned out very appropriate, but that's another story.

 

Mike

 

 

Steyr Scout in 376 Steyr. Now that's a cool rifle. I've always liked the Scout rifle concept that the late Col. Jeff Cooper touted. Pretty much have reload for that one though.

 

Hey Tucker, no hard feelings, Huh. Have a good one. I might not always agree but I enjoy reading your posts.

[Mike Grasso]

Jeff, talked me into it when I was playing adjunct instructor for him many moons ago, I bought about 200 rds of ammo when I bought the rifle, still have at least 160 left. It's not a rifle you go out and shoot alot! (As he winces!)

 

Mg