crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 So, I'm an o/u guy. Just bought my first auto - 12ga. Churchill made by Franchi. Bought it used for $400 - just wanted something to play around with. It will not cycle target loads. I'm embarassed to admit that I do not know if its gas or recoil driven (autos are new to me). How can I tell, and where can I find some info on disassembly, cleaning, etc. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 If the receiver has a hump on the back like the 48AL, then it's recoil driven. If it looks like this one http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133395956 then it's gas operated and there may be an adjusting ring under the forearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 That's basically the same gun - so it's gas. Know anywhere where I can find a diagram of parts so I can learn exactly what's going on inside? or a video of disassembly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 That's basically the same gun - so it's gas. Know anywhere where I can find a diagram of parts so I can learn exactly what's going on inside? or a video of disassembly? I am unable to source diagrams for you right now, however, if you are mechanically inclined, call the company and ask for them to send you a user's manual, or google it, or see if you can find the diagram on their website. Then take it apart yourself. I have found that taking something apart myself garners a better understanding than any reading could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 It should be a pretty simple and straightforward process. Just note the position and direction of the various gas rings and o rings as they come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I completely agree - and I've owned enough firearms that taking them apart doesn't scare me, I just want to know what everything does and how to make adjustments. I definitely need a manual, but Churchill basically doesn't exist anymore. Are most gas autos the same configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I completely agree - and I've owned enough firearms that taking them apart doesn't scare me, I just want to know what everything does and how to make adjustments. I definitely need a manual, but Churchill basically doesn't exist anymore. Are most gas autos the same configuration? Well, most "gas" autos are piston autos. They vary a bit, but if you are mechanically savvy, you can take yours apart and understand it I bet. From what you have told me, you aren't in any danger of not putting it back togather correct again, so take it apart and see what you can learn. It might end up being self-exclamatory for all you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Most are the same basic principle. Gas vents through ports in the barrel into a piston surrounding the magazine tube. O rings insure no leakage and the piston is driven towards the receiver. Action bars straddle the bolt group and drive it rearwards. The return spring will either be on the magazine tube between the piston and the receiver or it will be in the stock. Gas adjustments vary, but one of the most common is a rotating ring that allows more or less gas into the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 It might end up being self-exclamatory for all you know. Be careful. Self-exclamation is illegal in at least three states! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Here's a question... the piston slides back and forth over the magazine tube - it isn't "held" in place by anything. So, when assembled, when you turn the gun around, end-over-end, you can hear the piston sliding back and forth. Is that normal? Or are there some parts missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Some travel is normal on some gas guns. This should be limited to maybe a 1/2" or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Can you take some pictures and post them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'll do that tonight when I get home. I also called Franchi and they're sending me a manual for a 720 so I can see if it's similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb99 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) Most often with gas guns, the issue of not cycling is one of cleanliness. Clean everything well, including making sure the ports in the barrel are not plugged (use a tiny drill bit and your fingers! not a drill motor), piston rings and cylinder surfaces are all clean, and making sure the action return spring is clean, and put it back together. On my gas guns I have found that a light coating of Break-Free CLP on all the parts that will "get gassed" keeps things operating smoothly and makes it oh so much easier to clean. Most folks who shoot Remington 1100's and 1187's competitively do this, even though Remington recommends keeping everything dry. To some degree, gas guns are gas guns. They all have similar operating systems, and if you're mechanically inclined, they're really no mystery. As Tucker said, MAKE SURE you note the way things are oriented before you take it apart! Take digital photos at each disassembly step, because sometimes, memory fails. Oh, and check the condition of the o-ring if it has one (many do, but not all.) If the o-ring is broken or even frayed, it may not be holding its seal, and that may be the problem, or part of the problem. Good luck, Tim Edited July 6, 2009 by timb99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb99 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Some travel is normal on some gas guns. This should be limited to maybe a 1/2" or so. True on many, but the 1100/1187 piston ring set will travel 2-3 inches back and forth between the end of the cylinder (barrel hanger) and the action sleeve. Not sure about this Franchi unit. I've never seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowe938 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 OK - how do I insert photos?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb99 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 OK - how do I insert photos?! You first have to post the photos on a photo hosting website like photobucket or snapfish. Then you have to use the proper code in your message. I think its: Where value is the link to the photo. For example: This used the code where the "value" was: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/timb99/Condor%20Disassembly/PICT0016.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 OK - how do I insert photos?! I think you have to have minimum number of posts before you insert links or photos. I believe it will tell you the number when you try to post one. Just run up the count on this thread and then go ahead and post one. Here's another primer on posting images http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14613 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattles Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Don't waste your time and money on it..Buy a new Vinci. I am locating some Vincis' online through gonbroker for as little(?) as $1299... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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