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Hookster

KZ U.S. made forearm review

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Hey All,

I've been looking at some options for 922r compliance and decided to order both the KZ and Surefire m80 forearms so I could check them out first hand. I don't have to twist my own arm very hard to spend $ on gun stuff so I figure I can see what works for me and sell what I don't like.

 

So some of the options I've been thinking about:

 

1-Don't worry about 922r, put my Carriercomp tube on if/when it arrives (probably o.k. option but you never know. Like Sukhoi fan said in a recent thread "It only takes one ***hole to ruin your life")

 

2-Leave my M4 like it is with the Sidearmor rail that I'm very happy with and just keep the stock tube/limiter

 

3-FL tube with Sidearmor rail and Surefire forearm used as just a grip with all accessories still mounted on the Sidearmor

 

4-FL tube with KZ rail forearm

 

Anyway, the Surefire is on backorder from Optics Planet (should be about 2 more weeks) and it's pros and cons have been covered fairly well in some previous threads but I received the KZ so I thought I'd share my thoughts on it since there isn't that much info in old threads. Sorry I'm not posting any pics but my camera is loaned out. I'll get some up later if anyone is interested.

 

Pros:

All in all it's better than I thought it was going to be. The fit/machining and finish are good. It's not very heavy but very rigid. The rail nubs seem to be the same size/shape as the Sidearmor. Out of spec? yes, but definitely beefier than the stock Benelli rail. Installation was easy (some minor fooling around to get clearance for the ridge on the barrel where it meets the receiver.

 

Cons:

The only real con is hand comfort. Although once I had it on the gun it was better than I had thought it was going to be from initially playing with it when I took it out of the box. I had been thinking it was going to be something like StrangerDanger's description of the M80 feeling like "holding a Pringles can." For some reason it feels better/less fat on the gun. With a rail cover on the 6 o'clock and ladder rail covers on the sides I'd rate the feel in the acceptable/not terrible range. I then tried a Tango Down vert grip on it and found that suprisingly comfortable and not an overly heavy setup.

 

Keep in mind I haven't put any rounds through this configuration so there could possibly be problems like those reported with the B&T forearm of gas system venting gas onto the support hand etc.

 

Anyway, I know this post is getting long. I just thought I'd share what I know so far about this option since some of us here are exploring U.S made options.

 

Take Care All,

Hookster :)

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Thanks a bunch for the review, Hookster.

 

I'm seriously considering this option also, however I've been in touch with Fred, the owner of Choate M&T, and I'm trying to persuade him to make knock-offs of the stock forend. He indicated he didn't see enough demand to warrant the investment of roughly 50k into the injection molds to produce the forends, however he agreed that it was 'a money pit' gun in that people who buy an expensive gun like the M4 are subject to spending even more money on them. However everyone on this forum is more frugal than that, right? ;) I'd love to see enough demand for Choate to be inclined to produce 922r compliance parts. He did say they had briefly considered making buttstocks including telescoping butts, but again he was unable to see it being profitable for them due to limited demand.

 

Please post photos when you can, I'm very interested in seeing some detail of the KZ piece from various perspectives.

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Maybe you should have Fred at Choate talk to Kip about demand for M4 parts ;) perhaps Choate would be better equiped to produce a trigger or disconnector which could be some problem solvers too. I'll get some pics and add them to the thread as soon as I can but it may be a week or so till I get my camera back.

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Fred said they also briefly considering making the FL tubes, but due to the right size material being readily available economically for them they decided against that as well. Telling him that DMWs is selling FL steel tubes for

 

Yes, I did mention the phantom Ti FL tubes to him.

 

Internal fire control parts were also discussed, but that's not moving forward right now. I will persist with him and some other contacts I have including Chip McCormick.

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Sounds good, persistence can pay off (squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that stuff) keep us posted.

 

Hookster

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Choate makes shell followers, but those are not marked 'Made in USA' in anyway. I suggest some of us test those to make sure they're reliable. Fred said he's going to check his shell follower for fit in the M4, once I hear back on that I will post that update.

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No, it's not marked but I printed copies of the webpage with the Made in USA logo for the item. I also e-mailed their help desk asking specifically if the item was US made and I printed the e=mail with their response. I'll keep these pages with the invoice for the item and I did the same with the KZ rail (although it is marked "USA")

 

Hookster

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No, it's not marked but I printed copies of the webpage with the Made in USA logo for the item. I also e-mailed their help desk asking specifically if the item was US made and I printed the e=mail with their response. I'll keep these pages with the invoice for the item and I did the same with the KZ rail (although it is marked "USA")

 

Hookster

 

Sounds good. According to a letter from the ATF I saw a few weeks ago addressing this issue, it looks like your pages with the invoice would be all that was needed in idenifying the origin of manufacture. I would post it, but don't know how.

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I would hope it would be enough to show "due diligence" towards the issue. If you have a link to the letter your talking about or could get it posted, that would be great.

I figure the more of their paper that backs us up the better.

 

Take Care,

Hookster

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Their response to question #3 is surprising

 

Hookster

Edited by Hookster
grammer

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Great review.

 

Would it be possible to cut the KG so it lost the top rail and fit beneath the SideArmor? Or does it need the top rail to stabilize the handguard?

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Their response to question #3 is surprising

 

Hookster

 

Bear in mind that when the IRS answers questions they often give conflicting answers to the same question, so imo it's best to cya relative to the answer to the 3rd question and leave no doubt as to the circumstances. When there's any doubt gov.org agents always act in their own favor.

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Good question! I just pulled off the top rail and it doesn't appear to affect the stability of the forearm since it is held in place just like the stock ones (between the receiver and barrel ring.) It looks to me like cutting the KZ just above the side rails might allow you to use the Sidearmor with the KZ as a grip. Although, it's possible there could be a little conflict between the siderails of the two units it's hard to say for sure until I can take some calipers to it and get some precise measurements but my initial impression is that it would work. If it did, I think it would be a great setup.

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Hookster, thanks for the great review. I also just ordered the KZ forearm. It looks good in the pictures and heard about how big the Surefire forearm felt also. I am doing the same thing as you, printing out the webpages that state Made in the USA since most parts don't say Made in the USA right on them. I got a DMW follower from brownell's but no mention of it being made in US on the website, even though I am sure Dave's stuff is all made in the US. I was thinking of just writing him a letter and asking him to tell me if its US made or not. I think this might be the only way to do it. I am also keeping all my receipts along with the printed web pages.

 

Any reasonable person (judge or jury) would have to conclude that you have made every concievable effort to ensure everything you bought was made in the U.S.A. this way.

 

Now just waiting for my FL tube from Carriercomp ordered mine a couple of days ago. I did notice the brushed titanium tubes actually did have Made in the USA stamped on them. Don't know if this is the case with all of them since some of them have the coating on them.

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Hey MeanGreen,

Let us know what you think of the KZ when you get it (mine arrived within the week. Not bad for Botach) I think it's good to have a lot of opinions about products on the site so people have more to go on when their thinking about getting something. The follower that I got from Brownells (the one StrangerDanger recommended) isn't from DMW it actually lists Brownells as the manufacturer:

 

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20384/Product/SHOTGUN_FOLLOWERS

 

Take Care,

Hookster

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Looking forward to seeing the photos.

 

I experienced logistical difficulties getting a camera today but I'll get some pics up as soon as I can.

 

Hookster

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Hey MeanGreen,

Let us know what you think of the KZ when you get it (mine arrived within the week. Not bad for Botach) I think it's good to have a lot of opinions about products on the site so people have more to go on when their thinking about getting something. The follower that I got from Brownells (the one StrangerDanger recommended) isn't from DMW it actually lists Brownells as the manufacturer:

 

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20384/Product/SHOTGUN_FOLLOWERS

 

Take Care,

Hookster

Hookster,

 

I received my KZ forearm today and tried to put it on my M4. It seems like its milimeter to long. I compared it to the the stock forearm and it looks about a milimeter longer. I could not get the barrel to sit flush against the receiver as I could with the stock forearm. I might just take a grinder to it and it will probably fit fine.

 

Aside from this, I think the forearm looks great. If it fit flush I probably wouldn't have any complaints with it at all. Its light, looks great on the M4 and does not feel like you are holding a pringles can. I am not sure what the Surefire would feel like or if the fit is better. But I am looking forward to your review of the Surefire once you get it.

 

Additional Note 9/24/09: I found out the fit issue wasn't with the KZ Forend, but with my M4. Had the same issue when putting on a Surefire forend. I ended up filing down the magazine clamp. Now it fits fine.

Edited by MeanGreen

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Hey MeanGreen,

Sorry you're having a fit issue. Mine fit no problem but it sounds like it will be an easy fix. Let us know how easy it is to resolve. The KZ does grow on you, I'm glad you're ok with the feel/weight/look of it. I'll post my thoughts on the Surefire m80 as soon as it arrives and add some pics to this thread as soon as I can. Unfortunately it sounds like I don't need to sweat 922r for awhile based on Kips latest post (I missed the order cutoff by one day!!)

 

I'm thinking of getting the U.S. made FL tube from Tactical Shotgunner it might be ok for a temporary setup til Kip can get things together

 

http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/one-piece-replacement-tube-for-benelli-m1014-m11707-shotguns-p-196.html

 

Hookster

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Sounds good. According to a letter from the ATF I saw a few weeks ago addressing this issue, it looks like your pages with the invoice would be all that was needed in idenifying the origin of manufacture. I would post it, but don't know how.

 

More than enough, I think. The "burden of proof" is on the prosecutor. It's prosecutor's responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the weapon has 10 or more imported parts listed in 922®. If they can't identify the origin of a part, they can't prove it is foreign. I'm keeping my receipts and a log of changes that I make to my firearms (with parts, dates, manufacturers, and countries of origin); but I'm not too concerned about 922® because it would be on the government to prove a violation. It's not the defendant's "burdon of proof" to show that something is US made; it just helps to have proof if there is a need to defend one's self from litigation.

Edited by LeoAtrox

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