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Infrared Light


Super33
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I'm pretty much a Noob when it comes to weapon attachments and I'd like to ask you guys a question or two. Most of you guys seem like you know what you're talking about so I figured I'd ask the wise.

I've been researching Lights to put on my M4 and I came across the RAID series from Surefire. After some reading time and listening to the complaints from the wife about my "wasted time" I read about the invisible infrared light the M720V has to offer. This sounds very interesting to me. I love the idea of having a beam of light that I can see but they can't. So my question to you is this, what will I need to do to see this light? Will I have to go bankrupt by attaching night vision to my M4? Is there another way? I found the Eotech X P S 3-0 and it says something about night vision, is this saying it's night vision or night vision compatible or what? I have no problem putting some money into my M4 to beef it up a bit but not thousands on nightvision. Also, if I did have night vision on there why would I need an infrared flashlight? Won't the night vision work fine on its own?

Please forgive the Noobness here, but I'm trying to learn this and I figured I could start this thread and learn more this way.

Edited by Super33
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I've been eating 10 carrots a day. I was hoping that would be enough but it's not working. I've even attached a carrot to my M4 hoping that'll work but it hasn't. I've been waking up in the middle of the night doing practice house sweeps and throwing carrots down the stairs like a grenade hoping that'll light things up a bit but that doesn't work either. Am I doing something wrong with the carrots? Am I using the wrong kind of carrots? I'm using the big ones. I've even tried rubbing carrot on my eyeballs but it hurt like ****. I did my left eye first and didn't do my right because of the pain. Should I have rubbed my right eye first because that's my shooting eye?

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Soak them in Everclear overnight...viola! Flammable Carrots!

 

Seriously, the NV setting on the Eotech just makes the reticule very dim so that it does not flare in your NV scope or goggles. NV equipment is not necessarily sensitive to IR illumination, older units just multiplied existing light, newer units will probably work OK. IR Illumination will give away your position if the bad guys are using IR sensitive NV equipment.

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Of course, the concept is light emitted outside the unaided visible spectrum (IR) that's visual through the use of a night vision device.

 

A light intensifying device like the ANPVS line would let you "see" that IR laser, but when you start talking good quality tubes (Gen 3 and 4) that don't bloom excessively in the presence of traditional light, the price is crazy for someone without a real tactical need. Most good IR lasers (Insight) aren't even available to John Q Public. Even then available, much of the NVD stuff you can buy may meet MilSpec, but has a slight flaw in the tube etc and the manufacturer opted not to ship it to the military or LE customer.

 

 

Go to one of the big weapons sites like AR-15.com or just do a search on night vision devices and you'll learn much more about it.

 

To your last question. In a environment with zero or very little light an light amplifying NVD won't help at well. In fact, up until 10 years ago we "chased the moon"because unless ambient light levels were .0022 lux or better the visual acuity wasn't good enough to fly and sometimes the moon rises at in the middle of the night, etc. Ambient light has to excite the focal plane that is then amplified. You don't see THROUGH a night vision goggle, your watch the "TV screens" that show what's in front of it in an amplified state. Thus the benefits of IR chem lights and illuminators.

 

Of course, Ohio is right. You can "see in the dark" via two technologies. 1) A FLIR: reads infrared signatures- heat not light. 2) Light amplifying devices as noted above. In early generations of devices, a segment of the green/blue light spectrum wouldn't shut down googles. In fact, aircraft cockpit lighting while on googles is in this range. Flying at night (unaided) uses lot of red light as it does harm adapted night vision but you go to greens for goggles.

Edited by BigHat
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Great posts. Even the ones not involving carrots. That pretty much answers my questions, I'm still probably gonna get the M720 by Surefire which was released in "March" cough cough. I wonder how much it was. Just the basic one without the infrared because I'm not rich and I can't afford the Night vision. Thanks for the input.

By the way, I was also considering the X300 or even the X400 with the lazer sight. I can definately see the advantages of having a lazer sight being that I can have both eyes on the target with piece of mind knowing my gun is pointed at the target. I can hold the weapon at shoulder height and talk my smack to the perp with a serious look on my face while caressing his temples with my lazer beam. Without the lazer will involve me holding the shotgun a little higher, squinting an eye and putting forth the extra effort lining him up in my meprolights. I might still be able to lower the weapon a bit and still hit him but there goes my piece of mind. I was thinking of the actual beam from the light acting as a sight but I'm not sure how accurate that would be, and not so effective in the daylight.

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I fondled the Raid series 720's at SHOT this year. There are three models to be released. Honestly, I wouldn't expect to see them for quite some time. Quoted price was around 650+. Not cheap at all.

 

If you're going to spend big money on night vision equipment, go FLIR. We use them at work. A guy can have his trucks high beams pointed at you, and all you see is the hot spot of the lamps. No image bloom. Shadowing isn't an issue with FLIR either. We use them in vast desert environments. You can overlook a quarter mile of terrain and it looks like a plain as day image. Vehicles, people and warm blooded animals glow. No IR or visible lasers needed. No IR or even visible light devices needed.

 

The units see through dust and fog great. They emit nothing. They work during the day as well. Oh how I wish I had one on my MRP personal rifle.

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That sounds great and I wish I had one but $450 is enough for me to dish up for a light. I'll do what I can to manage getting an X400 and dishing up an excuse of some sort. I have a sickness. I get into a phase and I buy stuff and I spare no expenses. I have a goal and I achieve it. So HOLD ME BACK and talk me out of night vision because I don't need it. I don't even really need a light/lazer combo but I can justify that a bit more and I'd be happy with it. I could get a surefire x300 and that'll be great for my M4. But I can see advantages of having a lazer at close range. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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The X400 is a great package. I have two of them. How do you envision mounting it to your M4?

 

The only drawback of the X400 is the design of the selector switch. The switch rocks in a 180 degree semi circle along the bottom of the unit. From Off - Light Only - Light & Laser - Laser Only - Off

the best setting to use is for both.

The trouble is, that switch can be bumped. I've had it happen on my pistol several times. You end up with light or laser only. Not good. So I'm looking to modify the switch to be much harder to switch.

 

If this unit was mounted on the side of a shotgun, that little switch will be easy to bump.

 

The only 720 I'd consider is the 350 lumen death ray. You don't need night vision on a home defense weapon. It'll likely hang you in court if you shot someone in the dark with it. Mounting a night vision device on a Benelli M4 would be troublesome. I wouldn't trust the top rail to mount such a heavy device on it.

Then you run into eye relief issues and firing off a 12 gauge.

 

The light output of the x300/x400 is now 170 lumens. A m600 Scout Light is 200 lumens. Base your choice off of how you intend to mount and activate the unit.

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.... You don't need night vision on a home defense weapon. It'll likely hang you in court if you shot someone in the dark with it. ....

 

I should probably re-think that trail of twenty dollar bills that leads into my bedroom window and ends just short of the pile of flaming carrots (alcohol burns with a near invisible blue flame...a perfect IR light source...and carrot flambé makes a great midnight snack!).;)

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