Major difference between a M4S90 and a regular Super90?

[ItsAllCreated]

Im still wonder if I can build a M4-Style Benelli without paying for one LOL!!!

 

I've never had a Benelli Shotgun, and want one for Home Defense to take the place of my Mossberg 590. I absolutely love the M4 but with the Mod$ needed to make a full fledged M4 price is gonna be upwards to $2k and damn thats pricy for a shotgun that still has a mag-tube.

 

So what are the major differences between a M4-Super90 and a regular Super90 (and even the M1 from H&K I see on GB, or the M2's)? Is it that the M4 has a double action gas system for extra reliability, and the regular S90's just have a single action system?

 

The one thing I with I could get on a M4 is at least a 8+1 capacity & a 20" barrel.

 

Would a M4 Collapsible Stock & adjustable Buffer tube fit on any Super90 (or maybe the M1S90)?

 

Since Im such a newb to Benelli Shotguns Im just searching as hard as I can for option here.

 

I'll probably just settle on the M4 but if I can put something together that fits my desires (and my bank account better) then Im certainly open different options

Edited November 28, 2011 by ItsAllCreated

[Sukhoi_fan]

The Super 90 series of Benelli shotguns are inertia operated (i.e. they operate strictly off of recoil) with the sole exception of the M4 which is a gas gun. M4 parts will NOT fit on any other Super 90 shotguns. The reliability of inertia operated semi-auto shotguns can be affected by adding extra weight to them, such as extra rounds of ammo, flashlights, etc.

 

The one thing I with I could get on a M4 is at least a 8+1 capacity & a 20" barrel.

 

The M4 with a full length mag tube is a 7+1+1 capacity (one round is 'ghost loaded' on the elevator).

 

If money is big consideration for you, then I would suggest you take a look at the gas operated FN SLP with the 22" barrel. It is made in the USA and therefore is already 922® compliant with an 8 round magazine. The SLP will also 'ghost load' a round on the elevator giving a capacity of 8+1+1. You can find a 22" SLP in the $900 range. It's true you cannot make the FN SLP full blown tacticool complete with pistol grip like the M4, however it's a fine semi-auto tactical shotgun nonetheless.

 

And fwiw, don't fall for the misguided thinking that the Saiga with the detachable magazine is in any way superior to a tube magazine shotgun for tactical purposes. You cannot change up rounds or top off the magazine on the fly with a detachable magazine like you can with a tube magazine. No military or police outfit in the world uses tactical shotguns with detachable magazines with the possible one exception of the Russians since the Saiga is homegrown.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Sukhoi_fan

[Bello]

M4 is just a status symbol

[ItsAllCreated]

Does a M4 Stock have trouble fitting a regular Super90 because of buffer tube length or something like that? I found a picture of one installed on a S90 after I started this thread so it must be possible, but maybe reliability went down (idk).

 

I do like FN products (My SCAR17 is my main HD Rifle), but I'd really rather have a Benelli shotgun.

 

The price factor is more about how much time it will take to get it into my hands. If I truly decide the M4 is the only way to go then thats what I'll get. It may take me longer to get it, but i'll get it. I just want to make sure the M4 is worth it, and I REALLY love that M4 Telescoping Buttstock! Whichever Benelli I choose will have to have it no matter if its a bolt-on Mod or I have to do some modifying (which I have no problem doing if it won't effect reliability)

[ItsAllCreated]

I'm actually a big fan of Saiga Shotguns because of the magazines. Magazine fed shotguns definitely have the advantage over tube fed. If Tube feeding was better than Mags than all types of military firearms would be tube fed. I've just had my fill of Saiga's for now, plus they are a big shotgun. This is my latest S12 Build, and as you can see the Mag does make it rather large

 

 

A Benelli Shotgun just seems like it maybe the next fun platform to build on, and I'd like to get better at loading tube mags, so thats the direction Im going I just wish I could find more info about them as far as tactical uses and modification's go

 

I don't quite understand how adding more weight to a inertia action shotgun could make it unreliable. I see lots of 3-gun guys using m1's & m2's and they have very long magazine tubes (with shells loaded that would add alot if weight). Are these guys doing something to their shotguns to make them reliable with the weight they've added, or is the extra weight really not that much of an issue? Reliability is certainly a Top Priority in my book!

 

Thank You to everyone whos helping teach me the ways of the Benelli! They seem to be great shotguns and I think I'll have alot of fun with them. I really appreciate all the help!

[Sukhoi_fan]

Here are the disadvantages to the Saiga 12 from my perspective:

 

-A Saiga 12 magazine hangs off the bottom, in the way, a HUGE magazine if you want capacity matching other hi-cap shotguns - this severely interferes with fire and maneuver operation under various circumstances one is subject to finding one's self in; I don't care what people imagining themselves playing cowboys and Indians envision themselves doing, such a large protuberance does NOT lend itself to serious tactical use - IT'S A HINDRANCE.

-BCG does not lock open on last shot fired on a Saiga, adding precious seconds to reload time in a *real world* tactical scenario; since BCG locks open upon last shot fired with most (if not all other) semi-auto shotguns in the middle of a storm one can still *immediately* drop a round in the ejection port and be back to a ready to fire condition *immediately* - can't do this with a Saiga.

-A tube magazine (including on pump shotguns) can be reloaded on the fly, keeping the mag topped off or close to topped off while doing the shoot and scoot; with a Saiga one is very limited in their tactical approach because everything revolves around "How many rounds do I have left in this magazine, and where do I need to be to make the mag change?". Being caught exposed while doing a mag change could be fatal.

-If one wants to change up type of ammo on the fly, that's easy to do with a Benelli, without even having to fire the round presently chambered - no way can one change ammo type on the fly with a Saiga, the magazine must be replaced.

-How many Saiga magazines can you carry for a total of how many rounds?? A 12 ga. bandoleer holds 50-55 rounds, so conceivably one could easily dozens (fifty to hundreds) of rounds of 12 ammo *of various types*; think of it this way: two bandoleers = 100 rounds, to get to 100 extra rounds for a Saiga 12 one would need to have five REALLY huge 20 round drums, ten huge 10 round magazines, or some combination thereof - how and where would one carry all those magazines??

 

IMO, Saiga 12s (once having had the appropriate mods to remedy reliability issues) are perfect for ambushes and fixed location defenses with the 20 round drum when utilized as part of a fire team, but as a serious standalone tactical weapon they suck for the reasons listed above.

 

 

I'm actually a big fan of Saiga Shotguns because of the magazines. Magazine fed shotguns definitely have the advantage over tube fed. If Tube feeding was better than Mags than all types of military firearms would be tube fed. I've just had my fill of Saiga's for now, plus they are a big shotgun. This is my latest S12 Build, and as you can see the Mag does make it rather large

 

 

A Benelli Shotgun just seems like it maybe the next fun platform to build on, and I'd like to get better at loading tube mags, so thats the direction Im going I just wish I could find more info about them as far as tactical uses and modification's go

 

I don't quite understand how adding more weight to a inertia action shotgun could make it unreliable. I see lots of 3-gun guys using m1's & m2's and they have very long magazine tubes (with shells loaded that would add alot if weight). Are these guys doing something to their shotguns to make them reliable with the weight they've added, or is the extra weight really not that much of an issue? Reliability is certainly a Top Priority in my book!

 

Thank You to everyone whos helping teach me the ways of the Benelli! They seem to be great shotguns and I think I'll have alot of fun with them. I really appreciate all the help!

Edited January 7, 2012 by Sukhoi_fan

[benelliwerkes]

I don't quite understand how adding more weight to a inertia action shotgun could make it unreliable.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1226[/ATTACH]

Empirically, Benelli has determined the minimum threshold of kinetic energy required to cycle the bolt; the rest of the understanding is simple mathematics / physics.

 

The attached may assist in understanding how adding weight / mass to the inertia platform may interfere with reliable cycling operation. The 20 gauge M1 bolt weighs 385 grams; a 2 shot magazine tube extension weighs 300 grams Plus 65 grams for the 2 cartridges and you have 365 grams of extra weight; almost the weight of the bolt. Third parties cite Benelli sources as stating that ~ 500 grams of added weight (1.1 pounds) begins to reduce reliable function. A 12 gauge 2 shot extenson and two 3" cartridges is just about 500 grams......again, just about the mass of the 12 gauge inertia bolt.

 

So, the addition of the 2-shot extensions plus the cartridges do not exceed the bolt weight, but add a picatinny rail and a light etc......therein the problems of operation may begin to be experienced.

Edited January 8, 2012 by benelliwerkes