collapsible stock compatibility

[ohbejuan]

Looking at potentially buying an m4 entry model. Found one #11723 but it has the standard looking rifle stock (non pistol grip even).

 

Anyone know if you can put the 3 position collapsible stock on these with pistol grip? Is the stock tube cut for all 3 positions?

[heckler&kochp2000]

Yes it is , they all come with the correct recoil/adjustment tube.

[ohbejuan]

Sweet! I wasn't sure, I had never seen a model with the rifle-looking stock before. I had also seen some website saying versions several years ago did not have the proper tube cuts.

 

If I end up buying this, I'm gonna need SD for the future trigger work and H&K for the stock when I get there

[maxfan]

Be aware the firearm will be illegal due to the stock replacement. Search here for the 922r requirements, since I am too lazy to type another 500-1000 words.....

[StrangerDanger]

Anytime.

 

Look into TTI parts. There are a few nice upgrades there for the trigger pack. I currently have one for a client that is getting the tti shell elevator, tti safety, FFT hammer, FFT disconnector and FFT trigger. It's going in an H2O, so I'm having the internals and the trigger guard itself coated in np3.

 

My the weapon is being exported to Australia to pop some pigs. I've got a Trijicon RMR on a Scalarworks rail and an Ava Tactical light mount going as well. All np3 coated.

 

Even the Surefire light I built for it is being Cerakoted to match the np3 finish.

 

The collapsible stock I got from HK is being coated in np3. Including all the internal hardware for the stock and pistol grip.

 

The sling is one of those black and white kryptec vcas QD padded slings hooked to the Ava mount up front and a IWC QD mount on the collapsible stock. All np3 coated.

[ohbejuan]

The TTI Shell elevator is a huge upgrade. The original I cut my fingernail on quite badly. With the TTI it's super smooth.

 

I'll have another trigger pack for your work in about 5 months SD

[StrangerDanger]

Good deal! You'll really like the shortie. I wish my burnt bronze/nickel boron M4 was built around the shortie.

[ohbejuan]

The full length one I have is heavy as heck with the surefire foreend, foregrip, muzzle brake, asgard shell holders. I think I'll build this one super light. I'm not totally sold on the rail with the RMR cutout built in, I'm a big guy and that may be just too low for me, plus I do like the Asgard detachable rail setup.

 

Any thoughts on the RMR cutout rail?

[StrangerDanger]

An SBS setup lightweight would be a good build.

 

I haven't gotten to fire an M4 with the Scalarwork/RMR combo. I have the units here. The build quality of both is very nice. If I was building mine again, I would elect for the RMR setup over the Aimpoint T1's. Are the iron sights too low for you? With the RMR, the dot is just above the iron sights.

 

If I was building up a SBS, I'd add the following accessories;

Carriercomp 5 shot titanium magazine tube

Carriercomp magazine follower

Geissele Hammer

FFT Trigger

FFT Disconnector

TTI Shell Elevator

TTI Oversized Safety

Meprolights Night Sights

Scalarworks top rail

Trijicon RMR Optic

AVA Tactical Light Mount

Surefire Outdoorsman Light with a Surefire Scout 500 Lumen Head

I might add the GG&G bolt release, I have mixed feelings about it though.

The only aftermarket bolt handle worth owning is the carriercomp one. The rest have been, "Meh." Either poor fit, heavy or bad machining.

 

I might keep it with just the fixed stock. The collapsible stock is cool and all, but the fixed stocks can be faster. Since it is a Class III device, shipping the weapon to Robar for coating isn't exactly easy. So what I would do is a selective part refinishing in NP3+. Mostly components out of the trigger group, the recoil spring plunger and pistons.

[ohbejuan]

Carrier comp tube on order

 

Will be getting the:

 

Geissele Hammer

FFT Trigger

FFT Disconnector

TTI Shell Elevator

GG&G Bolt Release

FFT Follower

Either Asgard Top Rail for QD Saddle or possibly Scalarworks

Most Likely an RMR05-G or RMR05-C

Possibly collapsible stock, the standard LOP is just way too long for me

 

Might Pass On:

TTI Oversize Safety

Seems just a bit too big and bulky from the pictures

Carriercomp follower

Plastic seems kinda cheap, thinking of the FFT Alum

Bolt Handle

Can't get carrier comp anymore and the FFT was a horrible fit, the standard benelli isn't bad though

 

Never thought about Night Sights

 

 

I would like to get Robar to do it, but the last refinish they did for me was crap and they didn't want to respond to my emails. Had to send it twice and still got a "meh, who cares" response even though the finish on several pieces was clearly not done well. I'm really disappointed with their service on this one.

 

I asked specifically about sending them an NFA weapon and they said they do it, just send it in like normal, no paperwork required. I feel somewhat uneasy about that. ATF is somewhat unclear, they "recommend" a temporary non-tax transfer just to avoid the appearance of an illegal transfer. It would "seem" to be legal just to send it out for refinishing and have them send it back, but I more than want to "seem" out of jail

[StrangerDanger]

What did Robar skimp on? Or were there just some cosmetic defects?

 

The carriercomp follower isn't plastic. It's aluminum as well.

 

The oversized safety can only be felt on your trigger finger when the safety is engaged. When the safety is off, you can't feel it at all.

[ohbejuan]

It was all cosmetic, but some kinda ugly. It came back PERFECT the first time and I went and screwed it up by having it laser engraved after the fact. I believe the heat from the laser caused some darkening around the engraving that was impossible to remove, so I paid for the entire lower and parts to be re-done. Other than the pictures in this thread, the captured trigger pin screws and the takedown pins appear to be coated in something other than NP3+, as they have a much brighter look to them.

 

In this thread you can see a lot of the complaints (minus the pins)

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_19/444285_Does_this_look_like_a_problem_to_anyone_else_.html

[heckler&kochp2000]

I had a part coated before that had a small stain in the finish, sent it back then it all came back BLING BLING looking lol. So i sent it back a third time, it came back perfect.

[ohbejuan]

Yeah, well I would strongly consider sending this back but they don't seem to want to even have a conversation with me. After my second email:

 

"The streaking is mostly likely due to them not being cleaned prior to coming out of the NP3 tank. As for the takedown pins, we have a trail of emails where I told you we never received any in the box but just in case were willing to replace them. As for parts being uncoated, etc. I have forwarded these emails to my GM for further review."

 

Yeah, they lost the takedown pins that I had included before and they replaced and re-coated a new set (which is fine), but the ones they coated and put in look brighter than the rest of the receiver (with the exception of the captured trigger pins) which look like bright steel.

 

As I mentioned before, really really disappointed in this service and I'm not sure I would ever use them again.

 

I never heard back from the "GM", I never got as much as a "sorry about that", but as far as I'm concerned that castle nut, extended pins, and end plate are hideous and unusable, the buffer tube has a gigantic streak, the takedown pins and captured trigger pin screws look bright and uncoated, and the lower has a big stained area around the trigger guard.

 

I don't feel like I paid half-ass price, but I got half-ass work and 1/4-ass customer service.

[StrangerDanger]

Email complaints rarely go anywhere. I'd call to discuss it with the manager. I'd imagine if you complained enough, they'd offer to re-coat the parts. I know you won't find the parts useable for your builds -- But I bet you could sell the parts for a premium to people who don't care.

 

I have done coating on AR15's as well. I never did NP3 since it was rather limiting on my color options. I don't like the fact that you can't Cerakote over it. I've been building some ultra lightweight builds lately. I like to keep them with an optic and a light and find myself in the mid 5 pound range.

[Scout_21]

Hey Mr. Danger,

 

Have you considered the poly-bodied surefires? I'm finishing up my m4 SBS build and am looking at those to save a bit of weight...not much mind you. Also For the Trijicon RMR I saw that a 1 MOA dot is out now. I had my heard set on an Aimpoint T-2 2MOA but with the rail option a 3.25 or 1 MOA Trijicon seems like the top of the heap. Any thoughts on the dot size? Thanks again for all of the input you've had on these forums!!!!

 

P.S. sorry for semi-hijacking the thread

[StrangerDanger]

I like the smaller MOA dots as well, particularly through such a small view port on the RMR. I don't see much point in using the larger MOA dots in any situation really. With your cheek welded to the stock, you aren't hunting for the dot. Perhaps the larger dot would be of value on the pistol setups...

 

As for the Surefire lights, I have used the 1000 lumen Fury and the Scout light variants. I didn't like the Fury since it was more of a wide beam. It wasn't worth the weight penalty. I really like the TIR reflector on the Scout series. I don't find the 500 lumen heads to be overpowered at all. Some of the lesser model Surefire's don't have the TIR reflector glass. Some might, I'm no expert on it. I wouldn't have a problem with using the polymer bodied light. I'm not sure what kind of weight savings you'll be looking at. I'd imagine it wouldn't be much since the Scout series themselves don't weigh very much to begin with.

 

With the Ava Tactical mount, we found that it was best to piece meal the assembly. We bought most of the components from Amazon actually. We bought the Outdoorsman flash lights for the body and the tail cap. We then replaced it's 170 lumen head with the 500 Lumen Scout light head. Some could live with 170 lumens, and have themselves a rather inexpensive weapon light package.

 

These options on a SBS are going to be awesome. I'm always envious of those builds.

 

Another option for you to save some weight is to replace the magazine tube with the titanium 5 shot variant that carriercomp makes. You'll save a few ounces where it counts most. Use of the Scalarworks rail and RMR will save you some weight too.