Jump to content

Tactical Shotgun Course w/M4


ColtM4
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey all , thought I would post some experiences I've had while taking this course. Its being given by a major law enforcement agency which I cant name (sorry)

 

The Tactical Shotgun Course is an Instructor level course for SWAT and Firearms Instructors.

 

Its a five day course with alot of shooting , right now I just finished day two.

 

I'm using a Benelli M4 shotgun , it has the B&T rail system , a tac star side saddle , a gg&g oversize bolt handle , an aimpoint comp M and a spector 3 pt. sling and a forward vertical grip

 

Day 1- classroom topics such as types of sg's , ammo selection , applications , zeroing , sights , slings etc...

 

We also shot 125 rounds mix of #8 , OO and slug . The Benelli handled everything well but I did have a couple of malfunctions with the #8 which I attributed to an improper grip on my part ( I was getting tired as it was like 100 degrees) Once I figured it out I held the gun a little tighter and it ran smooth.

 

My shot groups were insanely tight ;) Everyone wanted to finger**** it after the range session.

 

Recoil on this gun is the lightest I have ever felt on any shotgun , my recovery times were tight and many times I was the first done on the strings.

 

 

Day 2 - the heat index was 111 degrees :eek:

 

classroom topics include manual of arms , tac and combat reloads , terminal ballistics ,, shooting positions , transitions , tactics etc...

 

We then hit the range for 4 HOURS ! :mad: I thought I was gonna pass out , we fired 150 rds again mixed and 250 rds pistol.

 

50 yards using standard 1 oz slugs was cake and I shot a nice group . Had only one malfunction again my fault due to exhuastion. Shot a 100% on the qual course (we qual every day )

 

So far I must say that the only concern is the weight of the M4 with all the **** I have hanging on it. I know it helps absorb recoil but I'm begining to feel that for prolonged use it can be a burden , additionally the side saddle gets hung up sometimes on my sling under stress shooting. It may have to go... The B&T rail system , gg&g bolt handle , the aimpoint and forward vertical grip all rock !

 

If you guys are interested I'll keep you all updated. Tomorrow is night fire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to hear you like it.

 

It's 115 here with the heat index, insanely warm for ny.

 

I'm sweating just reading what you did.

 

Is this a new gun? My m4 jammed with everything for the first like 50 rounds, then after that it has not had a single jam ... and I've put about 2k through it.

 

It is a heavy mofo, especially with all that stuff you have. Imagine the weight with a flashlight, laser, forward side saddle, muzzle brake and more. That's why you need a good sling to save your triceps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heck yes we're interested! See if you could take some pictures too if the Man will let you. ;) I've got a Mesa tactical shell holder, Surefire M3, Sidearmor rail, and a Docter sight on mine, and it is a tad heavy. However, like Duggan said, a nice sling makes things much better. However, if I do happen to pick up another M4, I think I'll leave it pretty much stock except for a light optic like maybe another Docter or something, just so I'll have a lighter shotty if I ever have to haul it around for a while (like for pheasant hunting--I can already see the look on my dad's face when I whip it out! :D ).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I forgot to mention I also have a surefire 952P flashlight mounted on the right side of the rail system.

 

The gun is not new I've had it for a year and have put around 500 rounds through it . before the course I also zeroed it. The malfunctions were def my fault and like I said once I tightened up my grip it worked fine.

 

The sling helps a bit with the weight but my shoulders are freaking killing me , I mean we were running , kneeling , in the prone up and down like yo-yo's

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey fellas , finally recovered enough to put this down. As everyone knows we had a serious heat wave here in NY .

 

Day 3 - Temp around 102 degrees and 95% humidity we spent a total of 6 hours on the range.

 

First part was three hours shooting from a variety of cover positions and shooting on the move. Shot around 150 rounds mostly oo Buck.

 

The M4 was flawless and was the envy of the course as it doubletapped targets much faster than anything else.

 

Once again the weight problem is on my mind and is seriously fatiuging me.

 

Second part was night fire shooting on the moving cover and barricade positions comm drills , transition drills all in the dark. The 952P really lit things up well however the muzzle flash was blinding , after the first shot my vision was maybe 50% something to think about.

 

I'm dripping wet from sweat , have gone through a dozen or so bottles of water however the Benelli is showing no problems.

 

Qualed again with a 100%

 

 

Day 4 - 100 degrees 98% humidity spent 4 hours on the range today doing covering fire , bounding overwatch , vehicle ops etc..

 

Benelli running smooth as a babys bottom however the 18" barrel is too big to manuever in a car.

 

The bolt release has been on my mind all week , I even posted here to find out how to replace it however I didnt have the time or energy I will def be replaceing it as the bolt release from the factory is NOT good for combat conditions. Its way too small , under stress its hard to find and to hard to actuate , everyone who had M1's also said the same thing.

 

The safety after alot of use can really wear on your hands and wrists , I'm gonna put an oversize and see if it helps.

 

We shot around 170 rounds today , no malfunctions

Qualed 100%

 

 

Day 5 - 98 degrees 95% humidity we only fired around 50 rds speed shooting , no malfunctions all is good qualed 100%

 

 

Summary - Very glad to know I have probably the best combat shotgun in the world. Perfect ? No but close. 650 rds or so and it ate up the course

 

I'll go into some partrs and accesories I can comment on :

 

1. Aimpoint - very fast , very easy and built like a tank . love it.

 

2. Side-saddle - hmmm still not sure about this. Its a convienient way to have reloads on your gun ready to go however in can get in the way and adds weight for prolonged use.... jury still out on it

 

3. B&T Rail System - I read here and other places about problems with this system. Well I;m glad I didnt listen because it performed perfectly solid as a rock. I read some people had gas leakage?? Well I never saw any of that and would recommend it highly however keep in mind it will add some weight to the gun so.....

 

4. Surefire 952P - solid , reliable , bright

 

5. Specter 3 pt. sling - excellent , well made and if you like 3 pt slings you can't go wrong. That said I will in the future get one with a quick release for vehicle ops.

 

GG&G Bolt Handle - man I'm soooo glad I got this. It ruled and was so easy to install. I highly recommend it. It really sped up my ammo change drills.

 

Knights vertical grip - light , sturdy and really helps controlling the recoil.

 

Thats about it ,if you have any questions fire away . for know I think I need another nap ;)

 

 

PS : The bolt release must GO ! :mad:

 

[ 08-05-2006, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: ColtM4 ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by ColtM4:

Hey all , thought I would post some experiences I've had while taking this course. Its being given by a major law enforcement agency which I cant name (sorry)

 

The Tactical Shotgun Course is an Instructor level course for SWAT and Firearms Instructors.

 

Its a five day course with alot of shooting , right now I just finished day two.

 

I'm using a Benelli M4 shotgun , it has the B&T rail system , a tac star side saddle , a gg&g oversize bolt handle , an aimpoint comp M and a spector 3 pt. sling and a forward vertical grip

 

Day 1- classroom topics such as types of sg's , ammo selection , applications , zeroing , sights , slings etc...

 

We also shot 125 rounds mix of #8 , OO and slug . The Benelli handled everything well but I did have a couple of malfunctions with the #8 which I attributed to an improper grip on my part ( I was getting tired as it was like 100 degrees) Once I figured it out I held the gun a little tighter and it ran smooth.

 

My shot groups were insanely tight ;) Everyone wanted to finger**** it after the range session.

 

Recoil on this gun is the lightest I have ever felt on any shotgun , my recovery times were tight and many times I was the first done on the strings.

 

 

Day 2 - the heat index was 111 degrees :eek:

 

classroom topics include manual of arms , tac and combat reloads , terminal ballistics ,, shooting positions , transitions , tactics etc...

 

We then hit the range for 4 HOURS ! :mad: I thought I was gonna pass out , we fired 150 rds again mixed and 250 rds pistol.

 

50 yards using standard 1 oz slugs was cake and I shot a nice group . Had only one malfunction again my fault due to exhuastion. Shot a 100% on the qual course (we qual every day )

 

So far I must say that the only concern is the weight of the M4 with all the **** I have hanging on it. I know it helps absorb recoil but I'm begining to feel that for prolonged use it can be a burden , additionally the side saddle gets hung up sometimes on my sling under stress shooting. It may have to go... The B&T rail system , gg&g bolt handle , the aimpoint and forward vertical grip all rock !

 

If you guys are interested I'll keep you all updated. Tomorrow is night fire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My arms are not quite that big , but they are longer and much older :(

 

That said no matter what condition your in prolonged shooting and moving etc... under very hot conditions will were anyone out. We had SWAT guys in the class that were 28-30 and in phenominal shape and they were worn out also.

 

I'd also like to add that I've been wondering if something like a dr optic may be useful w/o the weight.

 

jak hows yours working out for you?

 

[ 08-06-2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: ColtM4 ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the weight issue will not be a problem. in at tact engagement you wont even feel the recoil. and if in a prolonged ingagement, with shots fired, it will get lighter as you go through rounds. as for the side saddle ammo is all was a good thing. I would not think you would be stuck in a 160rd shootout that is for training purpose and to get you fimilar with you wepon

Rock on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...