Birdog19
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Posts posted by Birdog19
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A lot of good advice and techniques here. Figured I'd throw out a couple myself.
- Shooting skeet is usually totally different than having a friend sling clays. On a skeet range, the clay will rarely be any further away than 25 yards; depending on which station you are shooting from, they could be much closer. Depending on where the thrower is standing, hand slinging clays is more like shooting trap where the clays don't have as much cross tracking rate but do fly away from the shooter pretty quickly. So, a modified choke maybe preferred based on the average distance from clay to shooter.
- I like to stand with my supporting foot (left) slightly forward with my weight slightly forward. Feet a little more than shoulder width apart; knees slightly bent and slight bend forward at the waist. Think of it as a fighting stance. I'll flex my knees slightly (just a little bounce) just prior to the pull so I don't tighten-up.
- The techniques I see above about keeping both eyes open and tracking through the clay and pulling the trigger when you intuitively think it's right is what I try to do. Keeping the barrel swinging is important but difficult. Most of us transition from swinging the gun to pulling the trigger without keeping the barrel swinging. It's like we can only do one thing at a time! Have your buddies critique you.
- I am right handed but left eye dominant. What I try to do is keep both eyes wide open so I can acquire the clay as soon as possible and start swinging my barrel to bear. When my barrel approaches the clay I squeeze my dominant left eye down to a bit of a squint so my right eye is looking straight down the barrel. It seems to work for me and also for a buddy of mine with the same condition.
- I usually shoot clays with an O/U 12 gauge with vent rib and front bead sight. On the other hand, the M4 has the ghost ring housing and sight that to me, just clutters my view as I swing into the clay. I wonder if that's why you started to do well when you shot your buddy's pump shotgun -- less clutter. You were able to learn the technique and carry it forward with your M4 -- awesome.
- I would recommend googling-up some clay shooting websites to learn how the pros do it. In fact I need to do the same to re-calibrate myself! I would say breaking clays or wing shooting is one of those sports where the old adage, "Find what works for you and stick with it," does NOT really apply. You may adopt subtle changes based on vision, body type, aches and pains or gun type, but the overall techniques explained by those members here do not really differ from one another.
- I found that I was pretty decent while out shooting clays with my buds but never really "good" because I was not doing it right. Only after doing some reading and adopting and training to the proper techniques did I start to hit around 20 of 25 (or better.., or worse!). I did go 25/25 once in my life!
Got'a love what L/S/B said: "Sound advice - if you're making mistakes, and they go uncorrected, you'll just keep on making them and get pissed-off."
An old adage recounts: "If you carry on doing what you're doing, you're gonna carry on getting what you're getting".
Nothing better than smoking a clay and having it turn into a flak-burst!
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Check out the link below. Scalarworks' LEAP mount is more expensive than the LaRue but a bit lighter. Their website provides good detail and their quick disconnect, while not a throw lever like LaRue, looks pretty convincing.
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15 hours ago, Jolly Roger said:
Ok, my spare "pos" calipers dont fit into a small flat rate box☹️ I was just gonna mail them to you. For the cost of the next box size you might as well just go to Lowes and buy a $20 pair a cheapies.
let us know what A&S says...
Thanks Jolly! Appreciate the thought and the effort!
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5 hours ago, StrangerDanger said:
I’d contact A&S to see what they say about it. I’ve been together probably 25 of these A&S frames and have never had one with fitting issues you described.
I sent them an email via their website and mentioned that I received some feedback on this forum with others that have installed their TG. We'll see what they say. And, thanks!
4 hours ago, Jolly Roger said:Do you have a set of digital calipers? Id be happy to compare hole and pin sizes. ?
This bushing?
Comparing holes and pin sizes..., I think you're on the wrong website ? Ha! I appreciate the offer but my wife won't let me have digital calipers!! Maybe I should go get some anyway. Yes, the bushing in question is the one you have highlighted above (arrow).
Thanks for the offer and the assist. I might just go get me some of those calipers.
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27 minutes ago, Milspec said:
Mine went together pretty well. The roll pin that holds in the detent and spring for the safety was stupid tight. Really out of control stupid tight.
I also purchased the lightened safety spring. Although it could be a hair stiffer for my taste, it’s much better than the OEM. The factory safety spring is not that user friendly IMHO.
'Spec -
As I recall, you swapped to an A&S TG within the last few months, right? Agree, the safety pin was stupid tight, yet you had no problem with the trigger bushing? I wonder if their anodizing process is adding too much thickness in certain areas (holes)? I'm no expert on the subject!
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Pirate - I sanded the holes (lugs) in the TG where the Trigger Pin Bushing is inserted. There is no play in the bushing or the parts it holds. While I have not yet fired the weapon, everything functions as it should, trigger disconnect, etc. and, it doesn't fail given the example you showed above. I appreciate the feedback...time will tell after a bunch of rounds fired.
Stranger - I removed the anodizing down to bear aluminum. I inspected the bushing for any damage or irregular shape and found nothing other than the aforementioned chipped flange end of the bushing. All the hooks fully engage as they should.
Bottom line here (actually there are two), in just doing a fitment trial with no other parts involved (elevator, trigger, shell release) the bushing slides into both lugs (holes) easily in the OEM TG and with some resistance even after sanding the holes in the A&S TG ( a tight fit). I don't have a micrometer to measure the diameters.
The other bottom line? I should have called A&S when I discovered this problem!
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I bought myself the trigger guard before Christmas and when it arrived and my wife saw the price, she grabbed it from me, wrapped it and put it under the tree! Merry Christmas to.., me? From, me? Giving and receiving at the same time!
While I have not stripped the M4 TG assembly 100 times like some savants may have on this forum, I have done it quite a few times to replace OEM with aftermarket parts, cleaning, etc.
The A&S TG comes with an over sized roll pin for the for the safety detent plunger and spring assembly. You have to use that pin because the A&S trigger frame is sized for it. It is a tight fit. The TG also comes with a roll pin for the rear trigger over travel. It too was a very tight fit and I decided to use the OEM pin.
The hole for the Trigger Pin Bushing was way too tight. It required way more tapping (can you say hammering) to get it properly assembled. I know, there is a lot to line-up in this process. Once all put together, I noticed the Shell Carrier (Lift) and the Shell Release Lever were very stiff. I had pushed the bushing through the TG too far which was causing friction and binding on the parts. I backed it out and all worked properly. I never had that problem with the OEM parts as there is just enough play in the bushing for all parts to live happily together.
I did some safety checks with the TG assembling out of the gun to ensure the safety worked and the sear disconnect was functioning properly. Once back in the gun, again everything worked as it should.
The tight tolerance of the Trigger Pin Bushing really bothered me and after sleeping on it over night, I decided to take it out and fiddle with it some more. It was difficult to remove and required needle nose pliers and a screw driver to get it worked out. I didn't have the right size punch which would have made it easier (later I found one in my shop). Trying to re-insert the bushing into the TG alone without any of the other parts was impossible without a hammer. I did manage to chip a piece off of the flared end (flange) of the bushing so I acknowledged that I may have done some other damage. Just to see, I inserted the bushing back into the OEM guard and it went in easily as it always has. So, off to the shop...
I took sand paper to the bushing holes on the A&S TG and opened it up a little. It took time. I also buffed out any self-induced imperfections to the bushing pin itself. Eventually I was able to reassemble everything as I was previously accustomed by just pushing the bushing through with my fingers and the handle of a screw driver without and tapping or hammering, though not as easily as the OEM parts. I'm going to order another Trigger Pin Bushing from Mid-West to replace the original that I may have buggered-up a little.
What did I learn?
1) I was surprised at the tight tolerances of the A&S guard and I'd never read anything about it on this forum. Then again, I never did a though search for A&S.
2) I also purchased the A&S lightened safety spring ($4.95) and it is nice. Just about perfect for me.
3) If I had found the correct punch for driving out the bushing I may not have buggered it up. The right tools!
4) Did I call A&S to ask them WTF? No. Did I ask anyone on this forum for advice. No. Stubborn? Yes.
So, if you are going on the A&S Trigger Guard adventure and will be swapping out the parts yourself, I hope this missive will give you some insight and confidence as you proceed. I also hope that any good advice from the 'wise ones' on this forum will chime in.
Thanks to Benelliwerks for his M4 Anatomy Manual and the Strangerous One for his detailed Trigger Group Assembly Guide!
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Sounds like great news, though I'm sorry to hear it took so long. Hope you're happy and the repairs hold!
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RPC -
Epic story of your loving wife! I like your build but curious about the light and its operation. Looks like an end-cap switch. Have you run the gun with HD loads and manipulated the light as you might in a HD situation? Do you change your thumb position to switch the light then back to more of a standard grip? Just wondering about the ease of operation and if the bezel around the end cap digs into your thumb during recoil. Would a remote tape switch be better?
I guess this question would make for a new topic.
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35 minutes ago, Schutzhund said:
...unfortunately mine started to leak from the gas block(which i tried searching but found nothing that nobody has ever had happened to theirs) now here i am waiting again for the third month to get my beloved M4 back which is under warranty in Italy.
So sorry to hear that. I did a forum search for leaking gas cylinders as I seemed to recall that topic and low and behold I found one...unfortunatley it was your post! Best of luck with the Benelli Muther-Land.
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I first saw the M4 on the cover of a publication by USCCA. I think it was written by Mark Martin and it went into all the basics of defending yourself and others using a pistol, rifle and shotgun. I fell head-over-heals with that picture.., it was like seeing a hot blond in a red corvette convertible. Just had to have it! At the time there didn't seem to be many shotguns with pistol grips, pic rails and ghost sites on them so this thing was just all-out sexy to me. I went fishing on Gun Broker and finally landed the deal for $1,525 in January of 2014.
My buddy and I went trap shooting and I pulled out my M4 after a few rounds using my O/U. I stood at the trap house and had him launch 6 clays as fast as the machine would launch 'em. Turning clay into little black clouds of dust as fast as I could was a blast! Giggled like a school girl! Later-on with an extended tube, I did the same thing -- this time with 12+1. Try it, you'll like it!
As I got involved with some local 3-Gun shoots and started tricking out my M4 I had a little bit of "lover's remorse" as I think I would have gone with an M2 or FN purpose-built shotgun for 3-Gun. Gone is the pic rail and after market side saddle. Gone is the ghost site housing -- replaced with Scalarworks mount and an RMR. And gone is the pistol grip so I can do weak hand load 2 and 4. So, after a little bodywork, I guess I'm sticking with the hot chick in the 'Vette!
In the works is a send-off to Briley to open the loading port and maybe shaping the forcing cone. Also get an A&S trigger housing. Once I get all the parts swapped-out and Stranger Danger gets the NP3 coating thing figured out, that'll be my next step to perfecting perfection!
One thing I'd like to do is attend a tactical shotgun course. I can run the gun ok but would like some bootcamp style instruction and techniques. Any ideas?
Also, thanks to the many folks on this forum for all the help and advice. Who knew I could still learn something new everyday!! ;-{)
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Beating a dead horse with brute force. I like it!!
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Cobra -
Welcome! Sounds like you've already made some purchases that come highly recommended by this group. While I wouldn't discourage you from asking advice on any topic, I would encourage you to conduct some searches for things you are considering as enhancements, upgrades or for 922 compliance, etc. I do this because there is a lot of good discussion and even tutorials on this forum written by some smart people that will probably cover most of the things you and I are considereing for the M4.
I'm sure you'll learn a lot just as I have. And, I've found the gents on this forum to be very helpful and sage!
Let your M4 journey begin!
ATB, Birdog
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Thanks much. I also picked up a field stock from a forum member and have switched to weak hand loads. I think I like it better and I don't see the fumbling around with my left hand like I expected. Port opening by Briley is my next step. Thanks again, Birdog
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Hey Fanboy,
It's been a few months since you've posted and I'm wondering if you've had the chance to run your gun with the Briley port-opening job. Do you like it? I'm thinking about using their services as well.
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On 11/12/2019 at 2:47 PM, jimbo45 said:
you know what saying he needs to learn? its "if you run into a**holes all day then chances are you're the a**hole."
Jimbo.., you made me think with that saying and that's a good thing. I once said to someone I love, "If everyone disagrees with you then there is one common denominator in the discussion -- You!" Basically, what you said!
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I was on leave for a while and hadn't paid much attention to this forum. HOWEVER, I got caught up today and was laughing at his arrogance, kind demeanor, communication skills and overall superior intellect! Of course I noticed this when he first joined and could only say, WOW?!
It looks like the herd finally turned on him and your clever and humorous responses had me giggling. I only have one regret, I wanted to buy some butt-ugly hand painted glossy cammo stocks for my next build. I already have a leather codpiece, thank you.
Oh the sheer sorrow. Or is it shear? Or Cher? Oh, ROFL, ROFL!!
Should I really hit send...?
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7 minutes ago, BenelliFanboy said:
Thanks, I put my email on the notification list so hopefully when it comes in I'll be around to purchase one.
Can you still order it if its backordered?
I don't recall exactly what I did. I believe I put it in the shopping cart and tried to checkout. At that point I was asked if I wanted a notification when they were back in-stock. I did get the email from them and I posted it on this forum for those looking for a stock. I didn't act on it though as I had already purchased one.
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Euro Optic is back currently ordered. I ordered one some months ago and it took about 6 weeks(?) for them to notify me via email that they were back in-stock. By that time I had purchased one from a forum member on this site. Might be worth ordering one from them while you continue to search. At $122.50 I recall it being the best price I could find.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Benelli-M4-Standard-Synthetic-Stock-81041.aspx
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And if you purchase a Carrier Comp mag tube, you'll get a Wolff spring and a follower in the package which gives you 2 of the 3 922r required compliant parts. I bought both a CC and FFT tube. I set the FFT tube on the floor while unpacking and it rolled a little bit and seemed to not be perfectly straight. I set it on a flat desk top on rolled it some more. Yup, it had a little bend to it. I doubt it would make much of a difference in operation, but I was a little surprised by it. The CC tube maybe had a little bend to it given the same test but it was barely discernable. The CC tube is on my gun.
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Powerball ticket, Aye!
I thought about a poor initial installation as well but I figured I would have lost it before 80+ rounds. I'm leaning more toward twisting the handle through manual of arms to the point where it was TDC. Currently I can rotate the handle to all 3 detents and give it a tug and it is secure. Quien sabes?
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FFT Charging Handle Update:
I examined both the FFT and OEM charging handle detents and they look identical under a magnifying glass -- nothing more scientific than that. While installed, both handles will rotate through the 3 detents in similar fashion with similar force required. With a bit of playing with the charging handle, I found it possible to have the handle fail to drop into the spring loaded locked position (detents) but instead stay in what I'll call Top Dead Center, or, the removal position. I applied a little oil to the detents on the end of the handles and I was still able to attain the TDC (removal) position without it locking into a detent. I also found that the FFT handle rotated a little more freely than the OEM after oiling.
So what does this all mean? Depending on your technique for racking the gun, meaning index finger, pinky finger, back of the hand, weak hand thumb, etc., it is possible to rotate the bolt handle just slightly into the TDC or removal position. While the spring in the BCG usually snaps (rotates) the handle into a locked detent position, it may not. In my case I rolled the gun over and it just fell out.
So Danger, have you heard of anything Stranger?! Should I buy a lottery ticket?!
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17 hours ago, Milspec said:
I’d like to be first on the list. Lol
My loading port job has been completed so I’m ready.
'Spec - Who did the work on your loading port?
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There you go! Enjoy!
How to mount the Aimpoint Micro T-2 to the top rail of the Benelli M4
in Benelli
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Wild Bill -
9" Nails brings up a good point and having reviewed the different products mentioned here, I think you need to ask yourself how you want to configure your M4. I run an RMR red dot with Scalarworks mount that replaces the OEM pic rail. It's lighter and co-witnesses well with the ghost ring sight.
In choosing your mount, do you want to co-witness with your Aimpoint or have a higher mount that you can look under to use the ghost ring site? None of the LaRue T661 mounts appear to offer a co-witness or allow you to use your ghost sites at all.
NineInch -
Can you use your ghost sites with the Bobro low mount?