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waveone

Correct M4 Tube Extension

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Is there such a thing? If so what is it and where do I find one ?

 

I know this question has to have been asked before however I would also like to know, aside from waiting period, if anyone has had any negative experiences.

 

I have also seen some from Magpul but wanted to get input from the folks on htis site first.

 

Reasonable cost?

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There are legality issues when placing an extension on your M4. Unless you are LE Officer and the weapon is used on duty, BATF will have a canary.

 

The way around this is to use a US made full length tube, follower and spring. The only experience I have is with the titanium model made by CarrierComp which is Cleefurd on this sight. His workmanship and customer service is outstanding. You can't go wrong with his products. I tried very hard to get them authorized.

 

Mg

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THank you Mike. However here in Texas we have no such legal issues so long as the extension is not imported from Benelli.

 

A third party entity part is totally aceptable

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THank you Mike. However here in Texas we have no such legal issues so long as the extension is not imported from Benelli.

 

A third party entity part is totally aceptable

 

 

Sorry, has nothing to do with Texas, it's a Federal Importation Law 922®, that's why I said BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms). The law states how many imported parts can be on the weapon, so by going with the ones I listed it becomes legal.

 

State law can not "ease" Federal law, just make it more stringent, like here in California!!!!!!!

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Perhaps we are saying the same thing or we just aren't communicating.

 

Mag extensions are legal, just not by importation from Benelli which I stated. Or any foreign manufacturer for that matter.

 

I've got one on my M3 which was purchased through a huge FFL here in Texas. So when I asked this question it was with the understanding the extension from a foreign source was illegal.

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I have a full length mag tube from Daves Metal Works. I think it's around 80 bucks. I haven't put it on my M4 yet. I have been using his other tubes for over 10 years with no problems and they do get beat on a bit.

 

As far as 922r I don't believe the spring is on the list of parts that count for you to change. The full length tube and follower are called out for sure but the spring isn't. It also calls a muzzle device as one of the parts. I wonder if your gun uses screw in chokes if you got a Briley choke you'd be ok.

 

If the gun is a pistol grip stock that cold add another part to the list. I'm not sure on that.

 

This is indeed a federal problem not a California issue.

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There are legality issues when placing an extension on your M4. Unless you are LE Officer and the weapon is used on duty, BATF will have a canary.

 

The way around this is to use a US made full length tube, follower and spring. The only experience I have is with the titanium model made by CarrierComp which is Cleefurd on this sight. His workmanship and customer service is outstanding. You can't go wrong with his products. I tried very hard to get them authorized.

 

Mg

 

 

Hmm, so then I am missing someting then. Fine, I will look into these sources.

 

I appareciate the time and information. Although I must ask what type of extension tube is illegal beside imported ones?

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Thank you Mike. However here in Texas we have no such legal issues so long as the extension is not imported from Benelli.

 

A third party entity part is totally acceptable

 

I believe we are on the same track. The confusion is over "imported from Benelli" anything imported was my point.

 

Also that it can not be an add-on extension, no matter who makes it... It needs to be a total tube replacement.

 

Further clarification can come from Cleefurd or SocomGuy on which series of parts need to be switched out, Tube/spring/follower or tube/spring.

 

Mike

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I'd go with a full length tube over a +2 extension. If you don't you'll just want a full length tube later on and end up spending more money unneccesarily.

 

You have 4 options for full length tubes pretty much, Dave's Metal Works, a factory 7 round tube if you can find one, a Cleeford/Carriercomp tube, and a SOCOMguy tube.

 

I'd reccomend a SOCOMGUY or Carriercomp tube, they are both top quality (and thus cost more than the DMW tube, which is a nice cheap alternative).

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You could call the DMW a cheap alternative, I'd call it a wise buy.

 

You can call it whatever you like, the fact is that the DMW tube isn't (and doesn't claim to be) made nearly as well as the more expensive competitors.

 

If you just want a cheap tube that will function, DMW is obviously the best option, as it's half the price.

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Guest cleefurd

The spring is not elligible for parts count. ANY portion of a magazine body that raises the capacity above the "sporting" limit of five is scrutinized without regard to origin. Full length tubes (like mine) offer no legal advantage over extensions. Rather they are typically prefered for their streamlined function and similarity to the parent figure... the M1014. The drawback to one piece is the slight chore of removing the "glued" in OEM stubby tube.

 

General concensus on 922R is that it is frought with ominous ambiguity, having not a sane gist at all, since domestic equivalents are immune from such encumberances. But it (922R) exists none the less. Read http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/search.php?searchid=527054 for my take on this related issue

 

It does appear to be tolerable as well as "sporting" for 3 gun matches, etc, and on par with domestic offerings that are legal. Perhaps this is why it is overlooked, or simply not considered an act of disdain for the law of the land. Now cross the SBS (short barreled shotgun) thresh-hold and you WILL be viewed as arrogant and/or defiant, for scoffing NFA restrictions. The transition from 5 to 7 rounds while discretionary, has from all that I have observed, and by every count I can find, been universally held and viewed as an acceptable prerrogative in spite of PETTY legislation.

Edited by cleefurd

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Duggan I guess I'd have to agree with you. On cost and functionality. It's a tube how trick does it have to be? I've run his tubes on my Benellis for at least 10 years pretty good service life wouldn't you agree?

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There are legality issues when placing an extension on your M4. Unless you are LE Officer and the weapon is used on duty, BATF will have a canary.

 

Forgive my ignorance but where were you getting this? I was looking at the federal firearms regulations from the BATF and the most relavent part I could find (Section 478.39) says that you cant have a semiautomatic shotgun with more than 10 imported parts if it was listed as not being readily adapted for sporting purposes.

 

I cant say I have heard of these rules before, I believe you, I just was wondering where you saw it.

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Guest cleefurd

You can have an imported shotgun w/ more than 10 imported parts providing it "submits and conforms" to our legislator's expert interpreatation of "what is sporting"

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Forgive my ignorance but where were you getting this? I was looking at the federal firearms regulations from the BATF and the most relavent part I could find (Section 478.39) says that you cant have a semiautomatic shotgun with more than 10 imported parts if it was listed as not being readily adapted for sporting purposes.

 

I cant say I have heard of these rules before, I believe you, I just was wondering where you saw it.

 

Interpretation is the key.

 

My statement of "There are legality issues when placing an extension on your M4. Unless you are LE Officer and the weapon is used on duty, BATF will have a canary." only comes from a recent sit down with BATF on this exact subject and this exact weapon when the Los Angeles Police Department instituted a private purchase program for it's Officers. The Section in question is 922®.

 

Just as Cleefurd gave the informative rundown, I felt that being new here and a LE Officer, it was my obligation to warn someone that "ignorance of the law, is no excuse for it's violation". Something that was repeated over and over by my BATF Brethren

 

Mike

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Guest cleefurd

Going backwards by removing the pistolgrip, will still allow the intriduction of added capacity. Just replace with a hunting stock.... that's what I did. The problem materializes when you add the capacity to a gun already AT the "sporting" limit, without any offsetting regressions. Gaining capacity in lieu of the pistol grip keeps you below the threshold, adding the capacity WITH the PG in place exceeds the "legislated thresh-hold" thus requiring parts count compliance PRIOR to any such additive augmentation. More expensive than conversion to SBS/NFA status, yet preferable to those who abhor invasive permissions.

 

The other recourse is SBS paperwork, rendering it a blank canvas within NFA jurisdiction.

Edited by cleefurd

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Great information guys thank you.

 

THis is actually my second Benelli. THe first was the M3 that I still have. Unfortunately it is too difficult to find accessoties like saddles and so forth. THe m4 is much more common- or was.

 

Anyway that said what type of sling and sight is recommended for this weapon?

 

Obviously this might fall within persoanl prefernce but it is nice to hear what works for other folks.

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sling ... basically any 3point sling you find that suits you. The gun is too heavy for a one point sling IMO. I have used slings from blackhawk and spectre with my m4 ... but my m4 hasn't had a sling on it in years. Keep in mind you have to choose a sling with the flat web gear 1 inch adapter, not sure what the technical term is but lots of slings use HK hooks, QD points etc, you want one that will just loop the sling material through. Also, keep in the mind that the front sling point will turn to either side, just take some snap ring pliers and remove the retaining clip thing and you should be free to rotate it to the right/left side.

 

As far as optics, that's personal preference as well. The irons work well for me, replacement night sights are also nice, if you want a red dot the aimpoint t1 is cream of the crop, the older smaller 511/512 eotech models also work, as do the mini red dots like the larue irondot, docter optic, jpoint, pridefowler etc ... I feel like I say this a lot. Your optic is up to you though, try as many as you can out and see what you like.

 

That being said, I would 100% recommend shooting a whole bunch of rounds through your weapon with irons before you go adding accessories ... not only will you get proficient with the basic gun, but you will have a better idea of what you want to do with your weapon after getting familiar with the ins and outs of it.

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Sorry, has nothing to do with Texas, it's a Federal Importation Law 922®, that's why I said BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms). The law states how many imported parts can be on the weapon, so by going with the ones I listed it becomes legal.

 

State law can not "ease" Federal law, just make it more stringent, like here in California!!!!!!!

 

That's right, It's AN IMPORT LAW. You can't IMPORT a Benelli with the evil features. 922r was an Executive Order from 41 to keep the endless waves of cheap Chinese Semi AK's out of the Country.

 

This is the same kind of bad info that people used to get if they wanted a transferable Machine gun, silencer, or any other NFA item. The so called gun guru's would tell you that the ATF could come in to your home at any time without a warrant and search the premises. The internet is full of bad info.

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That's right, It's AN IMPORT LAW. You can't IMPORT a Benelli with the evil features. 922r was an Executive Order from 41 to keep the endless waves of cheap Chinese Semi AK's out of the Country.

 

This is the same kind of bad info that people used to get if they wanted a transferable Machine gun, silencer, or any other NFA item. The so called gun guru's would tell you that the ATF could come in to your home at any time without a warrant and search the premises. The internet is full of bad info.

 

 

Johnny, Am I reading this right? Are you saying that you can put anything on this weapon after it enters the country? If so, Then you may be the one giving the bad info......

 

Mike

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Great information guys thank you.

 

THis is actually my second Benelli. THe first was the M3 that I still have. Unfortunately it is too difficult to find accessoties like saddles and so forth. THe m4 is much more common- or was.

 

Anyway that said what type of sling and sight is recommended for this weapon?

 

Obviously this might fall within persoanl prefernce but it is nice to hear what works for other folks.

 

 

One thing to take into consideraration is no one right now makes an optical sight low enough to cowitness ( see your iron sight thru also) So if you buy something make sure it has a mount that's easily removed so you can access your iron if need be.

 

Slings I easily agree with Duggan, total personal preference but single points put a lot of stress on a heavy weapon. I like the Giles sling, they make it for the M4 with the correct size loops forward and aft. I also add the pad since we have a tendency to carry the weapon for hours.

 

http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_9_16&products_id=47

 

 

 

Mike

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Johnny, Am I reading this right? Are you saying that you can put anything on this weapon after it enters the country? If so, Then you may be the one giving the bad info......

 

Mike

 

OK, here we go. Yes, I say 922r is an import law. Reference the FN shotgun that they import AND THEN add an ext. mag to, then sell to civilians.

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF005&gid=FNG002&mid=FNM0131

 

If you take bits of it out of context, you get the typical internet opinion that you can only put non imported extended mags, collasable stocks, ect on your gun. If you talk to 10 different ATF Agents you will get some that say yea and some that say nea. Some of them don't even know what the OAL on a rifle/shotgun has to be before it's a SBS/SBR. Or whether that measurement is taken with stock folded or open.

But let's play devil's advocate here. You think that by putting an Americam Made ext mag on your imported shotgun then that's ok? What happened to the whole parts count thing. If your going to adhere to 922r as commonly interpreted by internet lawyers, then you are going to have to change quite a few parts.

Btw, I wouldn't dream of putting ANYTHING on my M4. I sure as heck wouldn't put a barrel shorter than 18", or make my weapon shorter than 26" OAL (MEASURED WITH THE STOCK COLLAPSED/FLODED/TELESCOPED, ect. because that will get you 10yrs in Club Fed and a 250,000.00 Dollar fine.

And Mike, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck with nthe whole firearms thing. I've been messing with NFA stuff for quite awhile.

I am not a lawyer, so proceed at you own risk. Remember, this is the Agency that just convicted a guy for having a malfuctioning AR (the law specifically exempts from prosecution any weapon that is malfunctioning) and charged him with owning a MG. He's in prison right now. I've even seen target pistols double on occasion- not common, but it does happen. When it happens, the cyclic rate can be high enough that Joe Blow doesn't even really notice for awhile if its an intermittent type malfunction.

So Mike, I see your an L.A. Ploice Officer: what was the story on the guy that they arrested at LAX with what looked to be legal firearms? I know that the Airport Police made the arrest, but figured you might know. I was Domiciled in LA till summer before last and I was afraid to take ANY of my guns into the People's Republic (I commuted to work from Texas and sometimes Utah, so no biggie). Place is waaaay changed from the place of my childhood and teenage years. Still a beautiful place though- just not for Gun Nuts like me.

Edited by johnnywitt

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Guest cleefurd

Johnny until recently I subscribed to the theory that FN had set the bar. I was wrong. I never could get an in person explanation as to how they (FN)circumvent the 922R provision until I asked them while at the Annual Shot Show in Orlando this year. They import their FNH Tactical without a mag tube, stock, fore-end, pistolgrip, follower, or gas system. All those items are made and installed Stateside.

 

Benelli also answered a few questions. In 2003 they were INSTRUCTED to stop importing collapsible stocks and extension tubes, since they won't (imported parts) render a compliant end product. Many (including me) had speculated they did so in an attempt to be "PC"... not so. Parts count should be met BEFORE adding evil features, unless you subtract before you add, never to exceed the thresh-hold prior to meeting 922R's part's count compliance or being granted SBS approval PRIOR to ADDITIONS. Example, install hunting stock on an M4 (losing pistol grip) you may then exceed 5 round capacity OR add recoil reducer (muzzle extension) OR add bayonet lug, etc. People do it and are typically excused by KNOWLEDGABLE personnel by compassionate virtue when considering that Remington and Mossberg are exempt from such petty and arbitrary legislation, hence it is viewed as paridy rather than contempt. Yes you are correct, NFA transgressions are a nuther ball of wax.

Edited by cleefurd

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