Should I buy this PS90?

[BigHat]

is it used in any criteria or by any leo,military,cia,spec ops in the U.S. consistantly? i believe the answer is no. and since the U.S. is the status quoe for training tactics, thus its a POS!!

 

The answer would be YES. The Secret Service uses it to protect the President and others. Again, you're entitled to think it a POS. Personally couldn't care less what you think about anything, but you don't know what you're talking about and others might think you do.

 

By 2003, 17,000 P90s were in use by military and police forces[6] in over 25 countries worldwide.[6][7] By 2009, the P90 and variants were in use with over 200 agencies in the United States.[8]

 

Go to Wiki to read the citations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

[krzysiuCRNA]

i do have to say, this gun is the most stupid, worthless, ugly waste of money one can buy!!! but to each their own!! i truely cant believe people spend their hard earned money on useless obsurd designed weapons!!! they're good for the movie business and thats it!!

 

It's a pretty well thought out weapon. See-thru magazine that stays right in your line of site. Rounded edges so it doesn't get caught up on clothing/gear. Spent shells come out of the bottom for ambidextrous use, so lefties don't get smacked in the face with hot shells. Bull-pup design for a full barrel. I dunno, seems pretty good to me. I have no use for it though. Not to mention, at the very least, it's fun to look at. I say grab it!

[texas skeeter]

The answer would be YES. The Secret Service uses it to protect the President and others. Again, you're entitled to think it a POS. Personally couldn't care less what you think about anything, but you don't know what you're talking about and others might think you do.

 

By 2003, 17,000 P90s were in use by military and police forces[6] in over 25 countries worldwide.[6][7] By 2009, the P90 and variants were in use with over 200 agencies in the United States.[8]

 

Go to Wiki to read the citations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

no need to get OFFENDED there mr BIG!! and it looks like i may be wrong about U.S. agencies using this POS!! i had just not seen nor heard about it probably cause the weapon IS a POS. not to mention ive been wrong before and probably will be again. oh and HAPPY TURKEY WEEKEND!!

[BigHat]

Steve,

I resisted this comment when I first saw your post, but am going to say it now. Why the heck did you come here to ask about the FN when probably less than 1 in 100 members have even touched one? Of course, as you can read, that hasn't stopped them from rendering their "valued" opinions.

 

http://www.fivesevenforum.com

 

http://ps90forum.com/

 

On these two sites that FOCUS on this caliber you can read criticism of the: factory ammo, ballistics of the round in general, the design, the sight, etc. But the vast majority of the people discussing it will know what they're talking about instead of making rather stupid remarks.

[Unobtanium]

Steve,

I resisted this comment when I first saw your post, but am going to say it now. Why the heck did you come here to ask about the FN when probably less than 1 in 100 members have even touched one? Of course, as you can read, that hasn't stopped them from rendering their "valued" opinions.

 

http://www.fivesevenforum.com

 

http://ps90forum.com/

 

On these two sites that FOCUS on this caliber you can read criticism of the: factory ammo, ballistics of the round in general, the design, the sight, etc. But the vast majority of the people discussing it will know what they're talking about instead of making rather stupid remarks.

 

Been a member of one of those forums for a while. Basically what they are saying is that in ideal situations, the PS90 does okay. Plenty of police departments bought into that and then ended up dropping the PS90 after it proved ineffective.

[BigHat]

Used by the Navy SEALs group of the United States Navy.[149] Also used by several federal agencies including the United States Secret Service since the late 1990s,[7][40][57][125][127][154][155][156][157][158][159][160] the former Immigration and Naturalization Service,[57] and the Federal Protective Service branch of the ICE since 2001.[50][125][161][162] On the local level it is also used by a large number of law enforcement agencies in the United States,[7] mostly for SWAT or similar groups. The first local law enforcement agency in the country to adopt the weapon was the Houston Police Department in Texas in 1999,[14][127] followed shortly by the Richland County Sheriff's Department in South Carolina.[163] In Texas the P90 is also used by the Bryan police department,[164] the Zapata County sheriff's department,[165] and the PS90 variant has been issued by the Addison police department to officers in patrol cars since 2007, making it the first police department in the country to use it in this role.[155][156] In California it is used by the San Francisco Police Department.[166] In New Jersey it has been used by the Passaic County Sheriff's Department since 2002.[17] In Kansas it has been used by the Olathe police department since 2001.[167] In South Dakota it is used by the Sioux Falls Police Department.[168] In Alabama it is used by the Birmingham Police Department.[169][170] In Alaska it is used by the Alaska State Troopers.[171] In Missouri it is used by the Creve Coeur police department.[172]

 

 

Based on a quick review of the citations, most of these are still in use. Again, no one is forcing anyone to buy it.

[Unobtanium]

Used by the Navy SEALs group of the United States Navy.[149] Also used by several federal agencies including the United States Secret Service since the late 1990s,[7][40][57][125][127][154][155][156][157][158][159][160] the former Immigration and Naturalization Service,[57] and the Federal Protective Service branch of the ICE since 2001.[50][125][161][162] On the local level it is also used by a large number of law enforcement agencies in the United States,[7] mostly for SWAT or similar groups. The first local law enforcement agency in the country to adopt the weapon was the Houston Police Department in Texas in 1999,[14][127] followed shortly by the Richland County Sheriff's Department in South Carolina.[163] In Texas the P90 is also used by the Bryan police department,[164] the Zapata County sheriff's department,[165] and the PS90 variant has been issued by the Addison police department to officers in patrol cars since 2007, making it the first police department in the country to use it in this role.[155][156] In California it is used by the San Francisco Police Department.[166] In New Jersey it has been used by the Passaic County Sheriff's Department since 2002.[17] In Kansas it has been used by the Olathe police department since 2001.[167] In South Dakota it is used by the Sioux Falls Police Department.[168] In Alabama it is used by the Birmingham Police Department.[169][170] In Alaska it is used by the Alaska State Troopers.[171] In Missouri it is used by the Creve Coeur police department.[172]

 

 

Based on a quick review of the citations, most of these are still in use. Again, no one is forcing anyone to buy it.

 

The list of those who DON'T use it is slightly longer...

 

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

[BigHat]

Most don't carry 1911s either, that doesn't make them bad or discredited. Most don't use M4s...

 

And your "conclusion" of the consensus opinion of the 57 on those sites is let's just say warped a bit

[texas skeeter]

OK then, the consensus is in, ITS A POS!!!!

[Unobtanium]

Most don't carry 1911s either, that doesn't make them bad or discredited. Most don't use M4s...

 

And your "conclusion" of the consensus opinion of the 57 on those sites is let's just say warped a bit

 

Okay, why would you use a 5.7 when you can use a 5.56? Any particular reason?

 

I have tried the 1911 and know why police departments don't use them. I don't either. Spotty reliability turns me off.

[Steve1968LS2]

The list of those who DON'T use it is slightly longer...

 

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

 

That's an odd logic train to ride...

[Unobtanium]

That's an odd logic train to ride...

 

An odd logic train to ride is trying to say that a round that does less damage than a 9mm FMJ is somehow going to be a reliable man stopper.

[Steve1968LS2]

Okay, why would you use a 5.7 when you can use a 5.56? Any particular reason?

 

I have tried the 1911 and know why police departments don't use them. I don't either. Spotty reliability turns me off.

 

Well in the civilian market there's no real reason.. the round does get the job done and low weight and recoil. I suppose if you can kill a bear with it you can kill a person with it. :shrug:

 

In the military the 5.7 round was superior and designed to defeat soft body armor better than other personal defense weapons.

 

But again, this just makes it different and not a POS as stated.

 

Is the H&K USP a "pos" because more agencies don't use it than do?

[Steve1968LS2]

An odd logic train to ride is trying to say that a round that does less damage than a 9mm FMJ is somehow going to be a reliable man stopper.

 

So, your saying that the .223 has superior stopping power?

 

And are you speaking of P90 ammo we can buy or the P90 ammo the military can get?

 

If was just about stopping power then we should scrap all the M4s in service and replace them with AKs.

[cody6.0]

Pro: The 5.7 FMJ round will defeat body armor at close range

Con: So will any other decent FMJ rifle round at close range

Pro: Most 5.7 guns pistol or rifle have a very high capacity

Con: You will need all those bullets

Just a quick fact here too, most agencies use the 5.7 round because it reduces the threat of collateral damage. The rounds that are still available are basically varmit rounds that more so built to mame a rabbit.

[Unobtanium]

Well in the civilian market there's no real reason.. the round does get the job done and low weight and recoil. I suppose if you can kill a bear with it you can kill a person with it. :shrug:

 

In the military the 5.7 round was superior and designed to defeat soft body armor better than other personal defense weapons.

 

But again, this just makes it different and not a POS as stated.

 

Is the H&K USP a "pos" because more agencies don't use it than do?

 

The 5.7 was designed to be used in a full-auto short-barreled weapon with little recoil so that LOTS of rounds could be put on target to make up for the anemic terminal ballistics. Further, it was to be a rear-echelon weapon never meant to see combat. In this roll it does okay. Semi-auto and with a 10-round magazine and a crappy trigger pull, used as a primary defense weapon, I would say it is a POS--for that use. Now if you want to hunt vermin or paper or plink, I think it's awesome.

 

Yep, bears have been killed by .22's also. Makes it good for self defense? I think not.

 

Also, PLEASE quantify what you mean by "In the military the 5.7 round was superior". Superior to what? What testing backed this?

[Unobtanium]

Pro: The 5.7 FMJ round will defeat body armor at close range

Con: So will any other decent FMJ rifle round at close range

 

Pro: Most 5.7 guns pistol or rifle have a very high capacity

Con: You will need all those bullets

 

 

Just a quick fact here too, most agencies use the 5.7 round because it reduces the threat of collateral damage. The rounds that are still available are basically varmit rounds that more so built to mame a rabbit.

We already know the OP is limited to 10 rounds. Fail.

[Unobtanium]

So, your saying that the .223 has superior stopping power?

 

And are you speaking of P90 ammo we can buy or the P90 ammo the military can get?

 

If was just about stopping power then we should scrap all the M4s in service and replace them with AKs.

 

I am talking about any 5.7 ammo. The SS190 is nothing more than a FMJ round that wont fragment or expand. It goes through kevlar? So does my 5.56.

 

Yes, I am saying that the 5.56 T2 round has TONNES more stopping power than the 5.7. Most other 5.56 rounds do too.

[cody6.0]

We already know the OP is limited to 10 rounds. Fail.

I was speaking of 5.7 caliber weapons in general.

[Steve1968LS2]

An odd logic train to ride is trying to say that a round that does less damage than a 9mm FMJ is somehow going to be a reliable man stopper.

 

And I'm far from an expert on this stuff.. but I found this interesting..

 

Ammunition

Particularly significant to the design of the P90 is the 5.7x28mm cartridge created by FN specifically for use in it. This cartridge weighs roughly half as much as a typical 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge,[5][11][12][13] allowing extra ammunition to be carried more easily. It also exhibits a flatter trajectory[12][14] and produces roughly 30% less recoil,[12][13][15] improving controllability.

One of the design intents of the SS190 variant of this cartridge (not sporting variants) was that it has the ability to penetrate Kevlar protective vests such as the NATO CRISAT vest.[15] In testing in 1999 by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), the SS190 fired from the P90 at a distance of 25 meters averaged 9.85 inches of ballistic gelatin penetration after passing through a Level II vest.[16] In testing done by Houston Police Department SWAT, the SS190 fired from the P90 typically exhibited between 11 and 13.5 inches of penetration in bare ballistic gelatin.[14] The SS190 and similar 5.7x28mm projectiles have been shown to yaw ("tumble") in testing in ballistic gelatin and other mediums,[11][12][14][15][17][18] using the .850 inch projectile length[19] to create a larger wound cavity. However, some are skeptical of the bullet's performance, questioning whether this behavior is sufficient to overcome the bullet's small diameter.[15]

Since the SS190 projectile does not rely on fragmentation or the expansion of a hollow point, the cartridge and gun are considered suitable for military use under the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, which prohibit use of expanding or fragmenting bullets in warfare

 

So it weighs half as much as 9mm.. has less recoil and in the case of the military version can penetrate soft body armor.

 

Keep in mind that the round was designed to compete against all the pistol-caliber sub machine guns in use. It wasn't designed to be a mainline battle rifle, but instead more of a CQB deal.

 

So yea, it's better than a 9mm.. Can a 9mm do this?

 

[cody6.0]

I am talking about any 5.7 ammo. The SS190 is nothing more than a FMJ round that wont fragment or expand. It goes through kevlar? So does my 5.56.

Yes, I am saying that the 5.56 T2 round has TONNES more stopping power than the 5.7. Most other 5.56 rounds do too.

After puting a few FN 5.7 with V-Max bullets down range I would consider them about as potent as a varmit grenade in .223.

[Steve1968LS2]

We already know the OP is limited to 10 rounds. Fail.

 

Which is the only reason I might not get it..

 

That however doesn't make the weapon a POS (can't blame it for stupid CA gun laws)

 

I doubt agencies would use it for entry and CQB work if it wasn't a good weapon and the round is superior to say 9mm rounds used in many sub-machine guns (like the MP5).

 

Of course that's just my opinion.

[Steve1968LS2]

I am talking about any 5.7 ammo. The SS190 is nothing more than a FMJ round that wont fragment or expand. It goes through kevlar? So does my 5.56.

 

Yes, I am saying that the 5.56 T2 round has TONNES more stopping power than the 5.7. Most other 5.56 rounds do too.

 

Again, you're missing the point that the 5.7 round wasn't designed to competed with the 5.56, but instead with the 9mm used in other sub-machine guns.

 

Good luck hunting bear or even dear with a semi-auto MP5.. lol

 

Does that make the civilian MP5 a POS? hmmmm

[texas skeeter]

 

Is the H&K USP a "pos" because more agencies don't use it than do?

NOPE, the H&K USP is a fine weapon!!! the P90 is the POS!!:Dand you're right!!! as to why this question was asked here!! do you go to a chinese food restaurant for mexican food, UM NOPE!! i believe benelli is a shotgun manufacturer, thus we talk about and know about shotguns. so of course you'll get a bunch a stupid comments regarding the POS PS90!!

Edited November 29, 2009 by texas skeeter

[cody6.0]

Again, you're missing the point that the 5.7 round wasn't designed to competed with the 5.56, but instead with the 9mm used in other sub-machine guns.

 

Good luck hunting bear or even dear with a semi-auto MP5.. lol

 

Does that make the civilian MP5 a POS? hmmmm

 

 

Due to the blood I assume the bear in that picture was shot in the throat which by no means dropped it dead in its tracks, a 9mm round out of a 16" barrel could do the same thing.