Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Benelli M4 -- Weapon light mounting Options Suck!


Recommended Posts

Correct, a completely flush QD socket would hit that raised shelf above the socket. I could get away with about 1/8" of more depth before the swivel would start making contact with the shelf.

 

Correct, I started with a bit just barely larger than the grip pin hole. Then kept moving the size up to 0.500". This gives you more control. Having the steel Plate Retainer in place will prevent you from drilling too deep. Plus, most drill bits have a pilot tip that will hit the Plate Retainer first. This will leave a shelf of sorts around the edge of the bottom of the hole.

 

Expect a tight fit for the QD socket. I had to hammer mine in with a derlin punch and a 16 ounce hammer.

 

If you're going to just put the threaded QD connector on the left side, you'll still need to drill out the right side to the diameter of your fastener. I'd recommend putting a small washer between the fastener and the grip core. Try to find a fastener with a nice round head that won't grab your finger.

 

You can get a stripped grip core from Numrich Arms occasionally for like 42 bucks. I have a spare unmolested one myself just in case I yard-saled this one. They actually have a complete assembly there for like a 100 bucks.

 

I'll purchase a non-rotating QD selector when I find one that will fit correctly. The sockets are steel, so they're pretty tough. The male portion of the QD connector will wear out long before the female side.

 

There is no need for glue on the rubber grip. Once you pull one off, you'll realize that it will never come off on its own. Prepare for a lot of swearing as you pull on the rubber, rocking it front to back as you pull. To put it back on is very easy. I hit the inside of the grip with silicon lubricant, and it pushed on in one easy push. If you look at the grip core of the collapsible stock, it has serrated raised edges that grab the rubber grip. If you add glue, you'll never get the grip back off without ruining it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 236
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Yea I will only do one side. I am considering the posibilities for fastners.

 

I am wondering - what are your thoughts on using a fastner that will thread directly into the steel insert?

 

Also for the qd cup itself. Are you saying you want one that prevents the swivel from rotating freely in it or one that that does not prevent free rotation?

 

Given the QD cup ideally has a certain depth to clear the reliefs on the guard - what is that certain depth and which cup, that you are aware of, has the closest dimension to that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have the capacity to thread the plate retainer, that would probably be the best route to go. However, you'll still want the fastener to insert into the opposite side to help retain the plate retainer.

 

For the swivel, you don't want the loop to twist and hit the pistol grip raised edge. You'll end up scuffing up the plastic. I doubt you'd be able to find a QD mount that is thin enough to actually make this an issue. The cheap Uncle Mike's QD socket is 0.500". The Magpul threaded unit is 0.750". The only way to get the mount lower would be to drill the retaining plate to allow for the QD mount to seat even lower. You'd have to drill into the retaining plate about 0.180" for a maximum inset.

 

You'd need a drill press to drill out the retaining plate properly. Drilling the steel is hard to do with a hand drill.

 

I searched around today looking for a better QD socket to use, but haven't found anything. The closest thing I've found is the QD Rotation Limited Sling MOUNT-N-SLOT. You'd have to machine this mount to work for our application. You'd need mill off the oversized groove so the outside diameter was 0.500". You could use a poor man's lathe and put the QD socket in a drill chuck, and run a file on it while it spins. The bottom has those alignment posts as well. They might need to be cut off, or the retaining plate would have to be modified to accept them. That would be ideal, since it would prevent any unwanted rotation. It would just be a lot of work. It says it is aluminum, so it would be pretty easy to modify.

 

productimage-picture-rotation-limited-quick-detach-sling-236_jpg_280x280_q85.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

That item may be .688 wide if the dimensions on the impact weapons page reflect real dimensions of the unit, which means a bigger hole, but this could also be the diminsion of it including the rim. Either way, the walls do look thicker than some.

 

Good news it it also says .25 height - not sure if that helps though given the clearance issue we need some protrusion anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That height measurement might not be correct. The male portion of the swivel is like 0.350" long itself. That 0.688" figure sounds like the rim measurement. Figure the body is 0.500", that leaves 0.188" difference, or 0.094" height difference from the body.

 

Removing that much material wouldn't be that hard. Or, the hole could be enlarged to the 0.688" spec, then back-filled with epoxy. The only real problem with this is drill bits larger than 0.500" are somewhat pricey and sometimes difficult to find. Most sets only go up to 0.500".

 

Finding a 11/16" drill bit would be a PITA. At this size, the hole would be touching the raised up shelf of the grip.

 

Also, I noticed with my dual QD setup, I essentially made my VCAS padded sling a single point sling by connecting one QD connector to each side. Sadly, it'll be about six weeks before I find out if it works in the field or not since the bulk of the shotgun is off at WMD Guns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately I was thinking again tonight and I've been thinking about taking the weapon light to the next level. I have a 40" tape switch, and I'm thinking about cutting the collapsible stock's pistol grip core to accept the switch. The rubberized grip would then slip over the top of the pressure switch.

 

Then looming the wire through the grip core's interior up to the top of the receiver near the rear iron sight. The tape switch would be upside down with the wire pointing towards the bottom of the grip. This is to use up addition wiring length and to put the useful portion of the pressure pad under the middle and ring finger. As the wire gets to the bottom of the grip, it would loop inward and up the inner core back towards the top of the grip core.

 

I'd machine a notch on the bottom of the rear iron sight to allow the wire to pass beneath the rear sight and over to along the side of the top rail. The iron sight base is actually hollow, so it would only require a minor cutting operation to allow the wire beneath it.

 

I'm still weighing options of looming the wire along the side of the top rail. I'd rather not put LaRue clips along the top with the wiring looms, but it would work. I was also considering pinching metal zip ties between the receiver and the top rail. What I really need to do is buy a Bridgeport or a Grisly milling machine so I could mill a channel along the bottom of my aluminum top rail to run my wire in.

 

Then cut a hole into the rear edge of the forearm and route the wiring inside. Stow the excess wire inside the forearm and epoxy it in place. There is a lot of room between the magazine tube and the forearm on either side. The another hole near the weapon light and connect into the light.

 

This would give me momentary control over the weapon light. It would be controllable from my strong hand much like a CTC laser grip's activation. You could conduct reloading operations and still have momentary control over the light.

 

Problems:

1. With my existing weapon light mount, this would have been better if it was done on the right side of the weapon. Not a deal breaker, but not ideal.

 

2. Looming excess wiring inside the forearm may be difficult.

 

3. The pistol grip portion of the stock will not be easily removable after the install due to the wiring.

 

Here is an old install I did with a grip mounted wiring loom on a fixed pistol grip stock.

007-4.jpg

 

011-3.jpg

Here is the rubber overmold over the top of the tape switch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For the excess wire, is there a reason you wouldn't cut the wire to length?

 

This is all a very cool idea. Very inspiring. Would love to see the results.

 

I am wondering if FFT wouldn't mill you one of his rails...

 

 

One of the flashlighter modders I contacted regarding my custom setup turned down the work because he was too busy. Still looking for someone to help with the electronics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mainly it is limited experience that keeps me from cutting the wire. I also don't know what's inside the tape switch. Is it just two wires? Or is it a rat nest of smaller ones? I'd imagine it is just two... I wonder if they're color coded wires?

 

I'm sure I could find a machine shop locally that could cut the groove. I could probably cut it myself honestly.

 

I'd have to drill a half in hole through the core of the pistol grip to allow the head of the light to loom through the assembly. Unless of course I went the route in cutting the wire. Then I could feed the cut end through the existing hole.

 

I really don't want to make a right side mount. Making the one I have now was an epic PITA.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How much is a replacement tape switch assembly? If modifying the switch or cable is something you're considering, it might be worth your while to cut one open. There may be two wires depending on the design. It's also possible that they have power, ground, maybe a shield, and signal wire(s). The wires should be colored so a cut-to-length scenario should be "relatively easy". I say that with caution because the careful person will still have an unsightly bulge at some point in the cable, and would need to be comfortable with small wires, a good soldering iron, small tips, and shrink wrap. If the wires are not colored, a meter, patience, and familiarity with the flashlight functions would identify the wires.

 

About the switch portion itself, the complexity depends upon where the flashlight's functionality chip is. If it's in the tail-cap, I'd expect a circuit board with a chip and switch in the tape switch. However, if it's on the LED board or in the body, the tape switch might be just a switch mounted on something for rigidity and ease of mounting. With some planning and soldering prowess, both scenarios can be modified.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every remote switch I have ever operated on has been a simple two wire rig. Simply bridge them to close the circuit. In that case, the colors won't matter. You can determine this by looking at how it connects to the light. For each wire there must be a contact. For most you will simply have the threaded part which serves as one contact, and a spring which serves as the second contact. Either way for each wire in the cable there will be a electrical contact on the flashlight side.

 

For the slack, if you only have a few loops that can be secured easily I wouldn't necessarily cut the wire. However if it's unwieldy, I wouldn't be afraid to do so. Cut, trim, twist your wires together, tin them with solder, shrink wrap. Nothing overly involved at all. You would plan this so your trim and suture is secured and hidden under the front hand guard.

 

Edit: I am presuming your switch already has a suitable interface to the flashlight and you are not wiring it into the flashlight yourself. That's also doable, but it's a different ball game all together.

Edited by bm4sbs
Link to post
Share on other sites
The single switch closing two circuits would, as far as I know, require a relay to do it right. The relay required is called a Single Throw Double Pole, and essentially uses a single pole switch to activate the relay which then closes two circuits at the same time. They are small but you still need to find a place to hide it, I think you could hide it under the hand guards.

 

For the actual switches to use, Google Surface Mount Tactile Switch. These are the most predominantly used switches in the tape style switches we see. They are wired in groups and any single switch closes the circuit. A cluster of these wired in to each side of a handguard so it can be activated with either thumb or fingers would be awesome

 

I agree, the correct way to do this would be to use a relay. The idea is to isolate the power supplies (batteries) or switch a circuit indirectly. However, if you really wanted the functionality without a relay, you could use pairs of 2 tact switches (1 wired to each device) and connect the buttons with a bar; be it rubber, plastic, etc. You could mimic the same strip of buttons, but the strip would be 2 buttons "thick" instead of one. Just some food for thought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the wiring info guys. I believe the switch is simply a two wire arrangement. Basically it wouldn't matter which way you connected it then since you're just bridging the circuit with the pressure switch. I think it is within my skill level to do the job.

 

I'm adding some complexity though if I do the job. One of the negatives about a regular tape switch is there is no constant on capacity. I believe it is within my skill level to modify a Surefire SR07 into the grip.

SR07%20BIG.png

 

I'd cut the picatinny rail mount free, and place the constant on button on the grip core where my thumb rests. The pressure pad would then be cut into the grip below my middle and ring finger. There is also the option of adding a pressure pad to the right side of the grip core for transitioning to my left hand.

 

Using crimp connectors and shrink tubing, I believe the wires could be routed through the grip effectively building a circuit.

 

My weapon lights have a hardwired tape switch connector already. So none of that would need to be wired.

 

I haven't decided yet if I want to take on the challenge yet. A lot of it would be fun to try.

 

On a side note, all my parts finally got picked up to go to WMD Guns today. So I won't have any of those parts back until some time in April. I also packed up my optics and lights today and they're scheduled to go off to a company named Controlled Chaos Arms in Iowa. Supposedly they do their work pretty quick.

 

On the Benelli M4, The Surefire M600C will be painted in Burnt Bronze along with its Aimpoint T1. The windage and elevation knobs, the power adjustment knob, LaRue release lever and the LaRue adjustment knob will remain black. They're all being done in air cured Cerakote with as matte of a finish as I can get.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, the correct way to do this would be to use a relay. The idea is to isolate the power supplies (batteries) or switch a circuit indirectly. However, if you really wanted the functionality without a relay, you could use pairs of 2 tact switches (1 wired to each device) and connect the buttons with a bar; be it rubber, plastic, etc. You could mimic the same strip of buttons, but the strip would be 2 buttons "thick" instead of one. Just some food for thought.
Good idea. I had contacted a few guys that do custom flashlight mods on CPF. I haven't found anyone with the time to do a custom setup like this yet. :(
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what the wiring or circuit boards look like inside that surefire switch. But if it's on a board you may end up needing a separate pressure switch for your momentary setup - that's okay though, solarforce tape switches are cheap and work well, and for under the grip you can't see it, in fact you don't even have to use the rubber that comes on the tape switch.

 

Looking at that surefire permanent on switch, I would be concerned about how easy it is to manipulate with the tumb. Plus how it would looked chopped off and then mounted to the outside of the grip on the m4. I'd have to have it in my hand to evaluate, I suppose. I am not sure the value a permanent on switch would outweigh having that button mounted to the grip, but that's just me.

 

I have a question about your Blam4. I got my blam4 in the mail today, the hole that secures the rail section is 17/64. The hole I need to drill is .5. I need that .5 hole to essentially use the outer diameter of the 17/64 hole, that means, I believe I am going to need access to a drill press to do this right. I can't see how I can do this without one... is that what you did?

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the BLAM4, take a look at this picture.

048.jpg

 

Notice how there are three holes on the mount. Two tab holes that are supposed to prevent the rail from rotating, and a threaded hole to actually mount the MOE rail to the BLAM4.

 

On mine, I drilled out the inner tab hole to 0.500". You can certainly do this with a drill gun and a vice. The existing hole will act as your guide. Then just keep enlarging the hole with larger bits until you get to 0.500".

 

007-6_zps9c9cb99e.jpg

 

I then used a hacksaw and cut off the unneeded portion of the modified BLAM4. I epoxied over the threaded hole for cosmetics. I then used a b*stard file to shape the edges of the BLAM4 so no sharp edges were left. I also cut off the loop sling mount on the opposite side of the BLAM4 to minimize its size and weight.

 

In the next post, I'll outline how the actual sling mount will be installed (Need more pictures.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the back side, the stand off posts will then be threaded into the IWC mount. These posts will apply tension to the IWC mount and pull it tight against the Spirolock ring. They also will prevent the IWC mount from spinning under load if you dimple the BLAM4 where the posts are screwed into place. You can do this with a center punch and a BFH, or you can drill into the BLAM4 just enough for the posts to screw in.

 

011-5.jpg

 

Once done, you'll have an extremely low mounted QD socket on the BLAM4.

010-2.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still weighing my options with the tape switch. I'm pretty happy with the setup as is, so I'm not in a big rush to tear it apart. I figure I have a month or two to think about it. I saw some pressure pad that had a constant on button on the tape switch itself.

564d354132524375444a316b3565484a467577-450x450-0-0.jpg

 

These are pretty cheap. The description goes on about some strobe feature that I have no use for.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On the BLAM4, take a look at this picture.

On mine, I drilled out the inner tab hole to 0.500". You can certainly do this with a drill gun and a vice. The existing hole will act as your guide. Then just keep enlarging the hole with larger bits until you get to 0.500".

 

007-6_zps9c9cb99e.jpg

 

I then used a hacksaw and cut off the unneeded portion of the modified BLAM4. I epoxied over the threaded hole for cosmetics. I then used a b*stard file to shape the edges of the BLAM4 so no sharp edges were left. I also cut off the loop sling mount on the opposite side of the BLAM4 to minimize its size and weight.

 

In the next post, I'll outline how the actual sling mount will be installed (Need more pictures.)

 

 

 

 

AHHHHH. Okay, what i was missing was that you had epoxied over the center screw hole. Makes perfect sense now.

 

Thank YOU!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm still weighing my options with the tape switch. I'm pretty happy with the setup as is, so I'm not in a big rush to tear it apart. I figure I have a month or two to think about it. I saw some pressure pad that had a constant on button on the tape switch itself.

 

564d354132524375444a316b3565484a467577-450x450-0-0.jpg

 

These are pretty cheap. The description goes on about some strobe feature that I have no use for.

 

 

Interesting. If you can fit that entirely under the grip, that would be slick.

 

You have to get the switch and tear open the wire to see how it works. If the momentary is one mode and the button is another, you simply wire them together so pushing the button or hitting the momentary both close the circuit. Obviously the button 'locks' it on.

 

Way better option than the surefire, IMO

Link to post
Share on other sites

My concern is that pressure pad from Klarus is wired to function with the electronics in the tail cap. Hopefully it would be just a basic circuit you're making a contact with. Cutting the grip and placing it under the rubberized grip is certainly doable. On my pistol grip stock, I undercut the visible portion of the grip so I could seat the useable portion of the pressure switch higher up on the grip.

 

003-1.jpg

 

It wasn't shown in the pictures, but I had a small fence built up around the pressure switch to reduce negligent light discharges when slung. I taped two cut allen wrenches along each side of the switch to create a raised ridge. You didn't really feel it when holding the grip, but when you went to squeeze the pressure switch, it was sunk into a pocket. Initial testing showed that when carrying the weapon slung, it was easy to bump the grip and cause the discharges. The use of tape also was effective in adjusting the sensitivity of the pressure pad by setting a pre-load on the switch.

 

 

 

That locktite epoxy is awesome stuff. When it hardens, it's about as hard as glass. It's easy to file and shape. The mount along with the rest of my junk should be half way to Florida by now. The mount is being Cerakoted black to prevent any rusting.

 

You can slap some cold blue on it after you make your cuts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...