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Benelli M4 -- Weapon light mounting Options Suck!


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Greetings.

 

Saw this post and another one on mounting options for the Benelli M4 and had flash backs. This is a journey I have taken myself, more than once.

 

Anytime you have to add lights, lasers, etc to a platform, you literally are bolting them on. When you have to bolt things to the outside of your firearm, you are making a sacrifice. If each arm were designed with high quality accessories built in it could be done with much greater efficiency of use of space, protrusions, activation issues, etc. The huge downside to that is the wide variance of needs, etc, so we're not ready for that as a market. Even rail mounted items (and the rails themselves) bother me. So much wasted space in the rail system, but it is a way to mount something in a standard way you would otherwise have to engineer and custom manufacture something for each situation if it otherwise wasn't available.

 

Anyway... M4.. Wish there were better options as well. I am impressed with many of the ideas found here and the custom execution of them.

 

Below are some pictures of what I had come up with.

 

SBS:

 

FTCDtD1.jpg

 

Lsej39c.jpg

 

There are pros and cons to this. I differ in my goals a bit. I am willing to sacrifice the use of tools to make the final implementation a tighter, smaller package. I loath things sticking out from the platform as much as I can avoid.

 

This is a 500 lumen flashlight. It is single cell so it's light. Run time isn't what a dual cell has, obviously. However, it has an extension to make it dual cell if that is needed.

 

The laser is activated by the tape switch, the flashlight with a thumb on the button. It works well, you basically activate them both with one action the way it's rigged.

 

I wish I had one tape switch which was a Single Pole Double Throw switch so i could activate both units with that one switch. That would make this better IMO.

 

The tri rail requires a tool to remove. Unfortunately I can't use the third rail as the two accessories I have mounted on it prevent use of the third rail. if I could, i would through a QD sling mount on there.

 

Next up, what I had done with a standard length benelli M4 awhile back.

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If you had to suggest a barrel/mag clamp, which one would you prefer? I have had a hard time finding one.

 

Thanks StrangerDanger

 

If I could ever post here with a picture, I'd show you two options I like.

 

LaserLyte Triple Rail is a good option when combined with the right light mount.

 

The other one I like is the LaserDevices magtube mount.

 

I've used both with good success, will show you the results as soon as I can do so.

 

 

Try this for the LaserLyte Triple Rail:

i. imgur. com /Lsej39c.jpg

i. imgur. com /FTCDtD1.jpg

 

Sorry for the obfuscated links, it won't post anything I put up with pictures or links.

 

 

 

This is what can be done with LaserDevices Mag Tube Ring Mounts:

i. imgur. com /5BLDhCN.jpg

i. imgur. com /UghEiQN.jpg

 

This is a sweet setup if you are going to use a 6P, 6P clone or similarly sized Dual CR123 or 18650 size flashlight. It tucks the flashlight into the space better than any other mount I have seen, in fact there is no room left so it cannot be done better IMO if you're using this size flashlight.

Edited by bm4sbs
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Post (something worthwhile) three more times and say.. Bippity.. Boppity..Boo..

 

Solid.

 

Well, here is the text of what I was originally going to post, the pictures removed. Pictures linked above. Sorry:

 

 

 

 

Greetings.

 

Saw this post and another one on mounting options for the Benelli M4 and had flash backs. This is a journey I have taken myself, more than once.

 

Anytime you have to add lights, lasers, etc to a platform, you literally are bolting them on. When you have to bolt things to the outside of your firearm, you are making a sacrifice. If each arm were designed with high quality accessories built in it could be done with much greater efficiency of use of space, protrusions, activation issues, etc. The huge downside to that is the wide variance of needs, etc, so we're not ready for that as a market. Even rail mounted items (and the rails themselves) bother me. So much wasted space in the rail system, but it is a way to mount something in a standard way you would otherwise have to engineer and custom manufacture something for each situation if it otherwise wasn't available.

 

Anyway... M4.. Wish there were better options as well. I am impressed with many of the ideas found here and the custom execution of them.

 

Below are some pictures of what I had come up with.

 

SBS:

 

CANNOT POST PICS, SEE POST ABOVE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are pros and cons to this. I differ in my goals a bit. I am willing to sacrifice the use of tools to make the final implementation a tighter, smaller package. I loath things sticking out from the platform as much as I can avoid.

 

This is a 500 lumen flashlight. It is single cell so it's light. Run time isn't what a dual cell has, obviously. However, it has an extension to make it dual cell if that is needed.

 

The laser is activated by the tape switch, the flashlight with a thumb on the button. It works well, you basically activate them both with one action the way it's rigged.

 

I wish I had one tape switch which was a Single Pole Double Throw switch so i could activate both units with that one switch. That would make this better IMO.

 

The tri rail requires a tool to remove. Unfortunately I can't use the third rail as the two accessories I have mounted on it prevent use of the third rail. if I could, i would through a QD sling mount on there.

 

Next up, what I had done with a standard length benelli M4 awhile back.

 

PICS LINKED ABOVE, CANT POST PICS YET>

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The laserlyte unit looks ok. I haven't used it though. Expect it to scar up your magazine tube where it mounts. I'd try to source additional fasteners since they tend to get tore up from constant removal.

 

Posting pictures here is a pain. You cannot just post a link to the photo or it will send the message to the moderator, which is an abyss of despair. Once you have a URL link to a photo, you must put [ img ] URL here [ /img ]

No spaces within the brackets.

 

Now to be a bigger pain, if the URL contains a banned phrase such as, eyephone or P S 3, it will reject it.

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Yea, it's o.k. And yes any thing that clamps to the firearm that must be removed is going to leave marks over time. I had the same issue with the Laser Devices mag tube mounts. If it gets bad, will have to refinish.

 

What I was trying to post in my original message, which is trapped in review land, was that all mounting options are compromises. Even fully Pic Railed ARs are compromised due to the weight and bulk those systems add. The rail combined with the interface the device requires to attach to that rail, all pushes the device out further from the firearm, etc.

 

We are all literally bolting things on to our firearms. How to best make it look, feel and act like it was designed for that firearm while reducing weight, space, catering to ergonomics, etc. It's all a balance.

 

I am willing to sacrifice the tool-less design for a streamlined setup to keep things light and in close to the firearm. That's just me. I would regret that obviously if I lost access to my tools, so it's a mission specific or philosophical decision for most.

 

Unless we're going to build something custom with the features and the electronics in it we each want with a perfectly suited custom mount, it's a matter of pulling together the various aftermarket pieces in an attempt to see what works.

 

With the laserlyte, for example, i had tried a thorntail mount - and it won't fit so I ended up with the Gear Sector mount.

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Trying a picture here:

 

FTCDtD1.jpg

 

Lsej39c.jpg

 

What I do like about this setup for the SBS, is that I have a way to mount both a laser and a very bright (500 Lumens) light about as close in to the firearm as you can possibly get it.

 

If I could change the activation to be a single momentary switch which activated both, I would be even happier with the setup. I would love a custom switch wired into an replacement set of FFT handguards. But this is unlikey as it would require a relay to pull this off.

 

I was disappointed that with the laser and the gearsector mount there wasn't any room left to fit a QD mount on the bottom rail as well.

Edited by bm4sbs
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LaserDevices Mag Tube Mounts:

 

5BLDhCN.jpg

 

UghEiQN.jpg

 

*IF* you are using a dual CR123 or single 18650 cell light such as a SureFire 6P or similarly sized light, these mounts are awesome in that they pull the light in to the tightest possible spot.

 

Don't get the dual ring one. Even if you mount to pieces as pictured, use separate laser devices single ring mounts as this allows you to pull each one in tighter.

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Bm4sbs,

Clean install. I really like the 14" barrel. Some day I hope to go that route myself.

 

You could set a QD sling mount with a BLAM4 bracket like how I mounted mine. It appears you have sufficient clearance for the bracket. It would also protect your wiring. Min just missing the actual QD mount. It's been on order for like three weeks now.

022-1_zpsfb6a2bbc.jpg

 

Ive tried to find someone who would splice tape switches together to run a light/laser. Sadly, no one seems to have done it. I agree that having a single momentary control over both the light/laser would be ideal. I've considered cutting in to the wiring and attempting to splice the two together, but I've moved away from the need for a laser is most applications.

 

After my adventures in modifying the FFT handguard, I'd be pretty comfortable milling a recessed placement for the tape switch. Then build up around the pocket with epoxy. Using the epoxy as a filler works really well for shaping. Once it dries, you can sand it to even everything out. I'm curious to see what the actual pressure pad looks like inside. I could build a sealed unit into the side of a handguard. I'd epoxy thin rubber over the naked switch and shape a fence around the activation switch. It would be much thinner than the existing tape switches.

 

SideArmor used to make a barrel clamp that did not interfere with disassembly. I had one years ago, but foolishly sold it.

benelli03small.jpg

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I noticed the blam4 and your plans to use a QD in it and I am awaiting the results. I am luke warm on the rear Mesa QD as you are, I had one on my full length M4. It works, yes. Best commercial option there is that I know of. Would be happy to see a better custom option.

 

The single switch closing two circuits would, as far as I know, require a relay to do it right. The relay required is called a Single Throw Double Pole, and essentially uses a single pole switch to activate the relay which then closes two circuits at the same time. They are small but you still need to find a place to hide it, I think you could hide it under the hand guards.

 

For a custom switch built into a set of guards, search google for "Surface Mount Tactile Switch" - you will see what the most predominantly used switch mechanisms used in tape style switches. You wire in a bunch of these and any single one that is depressed closes the circuit. Having a row of these built into each side of the guard that can be pressed by the finger or the thumb on either side that activates the systems.... wow. Wouldn't get better than that.

 

 

 

The other light mount system I liked on my full length M4 was laser devices, pictures:

 

5BLDhCN.jpg

 

UghEiQN.jpg

 

 

I liked this for double CR123 Lights or 18650 Lights - SureFire 6P or similar size because it held them in almost touching the firearm arm. Can't get better than that. I used two separate rings rather than the double ring Laser devices sells because it allowed me to adjust each device separately.

 

I chose to go with a smaller single cell light on the SBS to save weight and bulk. Obviously this is a compromise, for run time, etc.

Edited by bm4sbs
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I noticed the blam4 and your plans to use a QD in it and I am awaiting the results. I am luke warm on the rear Mesa QD as you are, I had one on my full length M4. It works, yes. Best commercial option there is that I know of. Would be happy to see a better custom option.

 

The single switch closing two circuits would, as far as I know, require a relay to do it right. The relay required is called a Single Throw Double Pole, and essentially uses a single pole switch to activate the relay which then closes two circuits at the same time. They are small but you still need to find a place to hide it, I think you could hide it under the hand guards.

 

For the actual switches to use, Google Surface Mount Tactile Switch. These are the most predominantly used switches in the tape style switches we see. They are wired in groups and any single switch closes the circuit. A cluster of these wired in to each side of a handguard so it can be activated with either thumb or fingers would be awesome.

 

 

That sidearmor, btw, is the first I have ever seen it. I do like the tool-less design. Not sure if I would be able to use it and keep my light in as close as I have though.

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Going to try to post the pictures of a full length M4 Light / Laser Setup using Laser Devices mag tube ring mounts. Only advise using the single ring mounts, not the double one they sell since it prevents you from adjusting each device separately.

 

These are great if you are using 2xCr123 or 18650 lights which are SureFire 6P, clones or similarly sized lights. For smaller lights, which are pretty uncommon in the firearms world, I chose a different mount. If I went back to 6p lights I would use these without a doubt.

 

5BLDhCN.jpg

Edited by bm4sbs
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Second Picture:

 

UghEiQN.jpg

 

 

If you have dual Cr123 or 18650 flashlights or devices such as the Surefire 6P or similar size, the laser devices ring mounts are excellent. It pulls the light in as close as possible into the dip between the barrel and mag tube.

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Man this forum is quirky. I make a post, it shows, hours later I look and it's gone. I made a post with a second picture of the Laser Devices rings from the side. Gone.I had made some notes in the post that were relevant to the setup.

 

Hardly worth my time to post here with how the posts go to review (with nobody ever actually reviewing and releasing) more often than not and even when they do display, they randomly disappear. How frustrating.

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I've had a few posts disappear as well after a lot of work. It sucks. I think it happens when a link is posted.

 

The rear sling mount is a PITA. I scrapped my plans to flush mount a QD socket into the pistol grip. There is just too much interference between the receiver extension and how the tail section slides into the pistol grip when collapsed. I have a spare grip core, so I will revert to stock form when I come up with a solution.

 

What I'm considering now is a flush mounted QD socket through the right side of the cheek riser. That way when you bring the weapon up to fire, the sling isn't bunching up between your face and the stock. It shouldn't try to interfere with shouldering the stock into the pocket of your shoulder as much either.

 

The front sling mount is going to be a win. It's lightweight and pretty easy to make. It's a solid mounting solution with little risk of it breaking free from hard use.

 

Good thing I didn't cut into any wiring. Once relays are involved, I'm in over my head.

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which qd cup are you going to use on the blam4?

 

BTW, quite possibly the best way to add a rear QD cup to the M4 maybe an nicely machined replacement pic rail for the top of the receiver which, like the mesa sureshell carriers, has a protrusion that goes down the side of the receiver and reaches back to place a QD cup in the perfect position.

Edited by bm4sbs
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Very interested to see how that Blam4 Turns out once you have the IWC QD mounted.

 

The IWC part you pictured there, that's an interesting idea for sure. As it was made to populate a webbing loop in a buttstock, just not the B-M4 buttstock. The IWC page does not say, how wide it is... I measured the slot width in my magpul MOE/CTR and it is 1.25 like the slot on the B-M4 c-stock so it will fit without a doubt. This one is built for a ledge as on the CTR, but it would mount for sure, may grind down, drill and tap for cosmetic purposes depending on how far it sticks out but that is an easy operation if it is even required.

 

 

While I am not a fan of having my attachment point on the adjustable part of a buttstuck, we don't have many options.

Edited by bm4sbs
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