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Someone made $100 off of a ProMag c-stock on feebay


Sukhoi_fan
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lol

 

And the listing states "Made in the USA" while the truth is no one knows for sure where it's made* (except for the people at ProMag, and if it were indeed 'made in the US' it would be marked as such, don't ya think?) I certainly wouldn't rely on a part for 922® compliance which wasn't clearly marked 'made in the US'.

 

*I bet dollars to donuts it's made in China, given the way the Chinese take great pride in their ability to counterfeit whatever they can see turning a profit on and especially considering the price point ProMag has on the c-stock/forend package.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benelli-M4-Tactical-Collapsable-Stock-Pistol-Grip-M1014-12-Gauge-Shotgun-/330870792791?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d096fa257&nma=true&si=Gqe9QeXxiVAbGYTTPA5EYCajEFo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

 

Edited by Sukhoi_fan
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lol

 

And the listing states "Made in the USA" while the truth is no one knows for sure where it's made* (except for the people at ProMag, and if it were indeed 'made in the US' it would be marked as such, don't ya think?) I certainly wouldn't rely on a part for 922® compliance which wasn't clearly marked 'made in the US'.

 

*I bet dollars to donuts it's made in China, given the way the Chinese take great pride in their ability to counterfeit whatever they can see turning a profit on and especially considering the price point ProMag has on the c-stock/forend package.

Gotta go with ProMag's website listing for the collapsible stock where it says "U.S.A made and sec. 922.R compliant." Print the webpage, staple it to your receipt and you should be just fine.

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Gotta go with ProMag's website listing for the collapsible stock where it says "U.S.A made and sec. 922.R compliant." Print the webpage, staple it to your receipt and you should be just fine.

 

Frankly that would be the least of my concerns with the ProMag c-stock. The OEM Benelli c-stock is bona fide mil spec, the Chinese knock-off isn't, and after discovering how little pressure/impact it takes for a c-stock to fully collapse when it shouldn't* I'd shy away from anything that would undermine the effectiveness of a combat shotgun.

 

*I'm referring to the loss/failure of that retaining pin in the c-stock which runs perpendicular to the receiver extension - I *know* how good the steel is in the M4 where it's crucial, I have zero confidence in a product obviously (at least to me) hecho en Chino.

 

ETA: And FWIW everybody else CLEARLY marks their 922® compliance parts 'made in the US', why doesn't ProMag in this instance??? I submit because they can't import them that way.

Edited by Sukhoi_fan
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A website can say anything...there is a reason all of the 922 parts are clearly and indelibly marked US, Made in USA, etc. That is the standard that has to be met. ProMag product is not marked as such. They know it would be to their advantage to mark it that way to eliminate ambiguity, yet they don't. Why? because the Chinese manufactured, US assembled parts do not clearly meet the legal requirement. Period.

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A website can say anything...there is a reason all of the 922 parts are clearly and indelibly marked US, Made in USA, etc. That is the standard that has to be met. ProMag product is not marked as such. They know it would be to their advantage to mark it that way to eliminate ambiguity, yet they don't. Why? because the Chinese manufactured, US assembled parts do not clearly meet the legal requirement. Period.
I don't necessarily disagree with you here but it is not really your responsibility as the end product consumer to back check every single supplier that any particular manufacturer uses back to raw materials. Does Kip only use titanium that was mined and refined in the US? Are you sure? Do you have documentation from each of his suppliers? Does he only use coatings that are manufactured in the US or are some of them shipped from Canada or elsewhere? Are you sure he isn't outsourcing the manufacturing to the Caymans? Did you watch him make your mag tube? Etc. How about Surefire or Freedom Fighter Tactical? (Not trying to pick on Kip or any other company or to insinuate that their products do not meet the requirements at all... particularly with Kip, I believe it is quite the opposite actually and they meet 922r requirements without question). At some point you have to trust that the manufacturer is responsible for what they advertise. Consumer protection laws are in place to protect end product purchasers from misrepresentations by US companies.

 

922r does not mandate that any replaced parts be stamped "made in USA". That just makes it easier to prove, should BATF agent Smith show up at your door or your side, that your weapon has met the requirements, assuming that you are the person who put the weapon together, not just the current owner. You can do that as well, perhaps not quite as easily, by providing documentation, if you are the assembler of the weapon not just the current owner, of the required parts' "made in the USA" status... receipts, manufacturer documentation, etc. If you are not the assembler of the weapon, it does not matter as it is not illegal to own... just to assemble.

 

I just ordered one of these sets for my M4. I see there is alot of speculation here that these are not made in the USA, but does anyone actually know for a absolute fact that this is not made in the USA or not stamped "made in USA"? If so, let me know so I can cancel my order!

At least the last run were not stamped "made in USA" but based on ProMag's advertisement of it being made in the US it will not matter (being stamped "made in USA" is again not a 922r requirement). You would have made your purchase of this item based on the manufacturer's advertisement of "made in the USA" in good faith and ProMag would be on the hook for their misrepresentation should it be determined that it does not fit the requirements, not you. That's why, at least in the US, we have consumer protection laws. Hassle? Perhaps. Are you liable should someone at the ATF determine ineligibility with 922r? No. Can you be refunded your money by ProMag Industries should someone at the ATF determine ineligibility with 922r? Absolutely. Is ProMag responsible for any loss you suffer should someone at the ATF determine ineligibility with 922r? Absolutely (although this may vary from state to state most that vary do so on the side of being more harsh for the company).

 

Is it easier to deal with potential issues if the the part is stamped "made in USA"? Absolutely. Are any of the posters wrong who have stated that the ProMag parts are made in China? Only ProMag really knows...

 

If you are worried about it that much, and still want a c-stock, replace another 922r compliant inexpensive part...

 

DISCLAIMER: YMMV. Check with your own attorney and the BATF yourself. This is not construed as legal advise... You are responsible for anything you do... I like Butter Pecan Ice Cream even if you don't.... etc... etc... etc...

Edited by RoadDad
speeling airor
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And what are the other currently available C-stock options for non-leo/non-military? ATI Raven for 300 bones... buying a Benelli C-stock for 800 bones or whatever you can find one for and still having, without a doubt, to change out two other parts (as the Benelli version now ADDS a non-compliant part - counts as two - stock AND pistol grip)... Or?

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Personally, after having some experience with the c-stock I'm not seeing what the draw is short of being tacticool (well, maybe with respect to wearing body armor, etc.). Fully collapsed only saves about five inches OAL. I've got two atm, gonna sell one* (since I'd have to sink even more money into acquiring a 3 position receiver extension for the M1014) and may part with the other if I find I can quickly get target acquisition with my T-1 (over an ARMS #31 mount) using the standard PG stock (plus I want to utilize the KZ sling plate which cannot be used on the c-stock configuration).

 

*already have a tentative deal with another forum member so it's not available

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Personally, after having some experience with the c-stock I'm not seeing what the draw is short of being tacticool (well, maybe with respect to wearing body armor, etc.)
Fixed stock is too long for my wife yet perfect for me. I'd rather have a c-stock for the ability to adjust without having to buy her her own M4...
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I bought a Promag stock so I can compare it to the real deal ones today. I'll take some decent pictures comparing them when it arrives.

 

My collapsible stock lives in the middle position since that's the ideal cheek weld height for using the Aimpoint. Using the iron sights and the middle position is a little uncomfortable to me. Not a fan of the Urbino attachment method, but it offers a good cheek weld with a similar LOP as the middle collapsible stock position.

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I bought a Promag stock so I can compare it to the real deal ones today. I'll take some decent pictures comparing them when it arrives.

 

My collapsible stock lives in the middle position since that's the ideal cheek weld height for using the Aimpoint. Using the iron sights and the middle position is a little uncomfortable to me. Not a fan of the Urbino attachment method, but it offers a good cheek weld with a similar LOP as the middle collapsible stock position.

 

Please advise on the interchangeability of the small parts (retaining pins, plunger, springs) when you get a chance. If the small parts can be swapped out with genuine Benelli parts I can see it as a viable alternative (so long as the small parts are swapped out for reliability purposes).

 

TIA

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(many good points snipped)

Is it easier to deal with potential issues if the the part is stamped "made in USA"? Absolutely. Are any of the posters wrong who have stated that the ProMag parts are made in China? Only ProMag really knows...

 

Agreed, but a manufacturer could stamp "Made in the USA" and it can be just as inaccurate too so I don't know if that is really any better than if you kept a print out of the website that states "Made in the USA".

 

Personally, although 922r is an important legal requirement I wouldn't want to get caught violating, I believe it is targeted far more at manufacturers than end users. But again, I wouldn't want to get caught violating it as an end user, but I think the likelihood of getting caught is incredibly low as I have never even heard of an end user being charged with failing to comply with 922r.

Edited by RDA1
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"Is it easier to deal with potential issues if the the part is stamped "made in USA"? Absolutely. Are any of the posters wrong who have stated that the ProMag parts are made in China? Only ProMag really knows...

 

If you are worried about it that much, and still want a c-stock, replace another 922r compliant inexpensive part...

 

DISCLAIMER: YMMV. Check with your own attorney and the BATF yourself. This is not construed as legal advise... You are responsible for anything you do... I like Butter Pecan Ice Cream even if you don't.... etc... etc... etc...

 

Waiting to see what the company has to say themselves about backing up the claim that it is USA made. Part is on back order so I have time to decide to cancel or not.... interesting to note, is that ATI is coming out with a similar type package but it's more than double the price- however, it has some additional parts such as a heat shield and a mag tube shroud that has P rails.

Edited by AlphaOmega
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