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dmast

Cycling problems M2

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I have an M2 in 20 gauge with a rifled slug barrel that is cycling inconsistently. When it "jams" the spent casing is stuck between the bolt and the front of the ejection port. If I pull the bolt back and release it, it ejects the spent shell and loads the new one.

 

Some ammo it happens more than others. Light fields hang up more often than not. Despite the name, they are not a "light load". They shoot a 7/8 oz slug at 1500fps. It's to bad because it shoots these very accurately. Brenneke 3 inch mags are better, but still hang up occasionally. I have tried many other slugs, and eventually they all hang up.

 

This has been happening since it was new. I have called several times and tried everything they recommend as well as anything I could think of. Cleaned it and used less oil. cleaned it and used almost no oil. Cleaned it and used dry lube. None of that made a difference. I replaced the recoil spring with one of the aftermarket ones that are supposed to help slam it shut, and that wouldn't cycle hardly at all.

 

They told me that sometimes there is a break in period and I need to fire one to two hundred rounds through it. This is one thing if your shooting skeet, but I only have a rifled slug barrel. still, by this point I must have over 100 rounds through it.

 

I'm getting frustrated.

Edited by dmast

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no idea who said to use no oil..that is ridiculous..you NEED oil...oil in the action..oil in the barrel throat....the gun is recoil operated..no oil means it will be dry and jam more...use synthetic oil in every moving part....

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sorry, it wasn't "no oil", I wrote "almost no oil" but I should have said very light oil. I spoke with someone at benelli that told me sometimes they jam because to much oil is used and it gums up. He suggested I clean it, and leave it with a very light coating of oil. that is what I tried.

 

What brand of synthetic oil do you recommend? how about if the gun will be used in very cold temperatures?

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Yes, too much oil can cause an issue over time. It is good to wipe everything down nicely then put a good coat over it. In general, any synthetic oil will do the trick. How cold are you talking? If you are living in them, I don't think it is cold enough to be a problem for oil, though there may be options that work better that I am unaware of.

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I wonder if the ANGLE of the recoil spring inside it's guide tube could contribute to this problem occurring with the slightest hindrance. All my auto-loading long guns have a recoil spring and tube is parallel to the bore axis. My Ruger 44 carbine uses the tube magazine as the recoil spring guide.

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Just had the exact same problem.  Darn frustrating.  I have an old 12ga SBEII that killed hundreds of deer doing the same thing for the last few years.  Two different Wolf springs, apart 3 times, cleaned immaculately, Failure to Feed after failure to feed.  The 20ga M2 has been in a box for a few years, pulled it out for this season.  Shot it perhaps 50 rounds evaluating different slugs after I bought it hoping it would produce improved accuracy over the proven 12ga.  It didn't so I didn't put it in service. Had perhaps a couple failure to feeds, but assumed it was the ridiculously stupid Benelli break in BS.   Took it out and mounted a 3-12x50mm illuminated Zeiss Duralyt last month.  Every shot zero-ing and the deer I shot resulted in … guess what, another failure to feed.  Might just as well use my cheapo Savage 220F bolt action.   Strikes me as absurd that an expensive, premium brand slug gun has this flaw in it.  Still searching for a solution.  

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Does anybody think it could be the inertia spring contained INSIDE the bolt?  Evidently it stores energy upon firing and drives the bolt assembly rearward, ejecting the spent shell, energizing the long spring in the stock to drive the fresh shell up and into battery.   

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May want to try some testing without the optics, the weight of the optics may change how the inertia is transferring energy through your gun.  In addition the 20 Gauge M2 uses slightly longer recoil spring that is found in 12 gauge models.

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I'll try the more powerful Federal 3" Trophy Copper slugs.  It's an incredible testimonial that I have $3,300.00 worth of Benelli slug guns topped with another $2,000.00 of Zeiss optics and neither gun can be trusted to cycle a slug???   Solutions?  There are none.  You have to hold the weapon a certain way?  You can't add any more than XYZ amount of weight to the weapon?  (Well what about those 10 round tube extensions?)   A slug gun should cycle rounds if I was hanging from my toes upside down, with a cement block tied to it, and I was shooting it with one hand.  For 3k I can't put a scope on a rifled weapon that theoretically can kill at 200 yards? Browning perfected the inertia system a century ago! I have an old A5 I inherited from my grandfather that still shoots perfectly and it's serial number puts it older than Browning achieves go back … and that's 1918.  He hunted so often that the checkering is literally worn off the gun.  And it works better than these $$$ things.  Lord I'll take a gas piston and clean it now and then over this travesty any time. 

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Hello Butch -M  I am currently working on a M2 Slug gun for a customer, if you would like send me a email or PM me, I think I can provide some insights.  Please take the opportunity to read some of my other posts.  I have been working on Benelli for many years, with positive results every gun.

Sounds like your more than frustrated but here are a few insights:

Benelli auto loaders do need to shoot against a firm support, shouldering your gun.

Benelli auto loaders need a certain amount of driven inertia to cycle the system, try shooting a Benelli directly overhead with a slightly weak recoil spring, cold weather. In this condition the bolt is facing the force of gravity thus your energy of inertia has changed.

Benelli bores are slightly tighter, are your shells falling all the way into the chamber area when the barrel is removed and the chamber is pointed up, if not your restricting or changing the force inertia when the system is delivering another shell to the chamber.

If so desired please PM me or email me at [email protected], I plan to have the M2 Slug gun completed and tested this week.

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Remarkable:

I certainly appreciate your effort.  But here's the reality:   #1.  Both the 2003, 12ga SBEII and the 2014, 20ga M2 were bought as slug guns.  There was nothing advertised that you had to use cannon loads to run them, nor that the firearm has to be held a certain way to shoot it.  (By the way, I initially fired the slug guns with a firm draw back into the shoulder to help control barrel rise.) Having to hold a long gun a certain way to have it function properly borders on comical, if it wasn't so ludicrous.  I've killed hundreds of deer and hogs in management programs; almost all with one shot kills.  Sometimes as many as 9 in a row on depredation permits.  Hence I'll run an extended magazine at times.  When you're stacking up animals, in the dark, with a weapon light or a spotter, it can turn into a crap storm of chaos.  Think every shot is going to be in perfect technique for a Benelli?  Sometimes I'm in a polo shirt in the jungle in the south Pacific and I can be sitting in a tree in 5 layers, including a Canada Goose Expedition coat, in January, in -7 degrees in upstate New York.   The SBEII functioned properly with 2-3/4" shells for years.  Then suddenly started Failure to Feed on occasion.  Then graduated to "often."  Went the Wolf spring route to no avail.  The 20ga M2 wouldn't cycle almost out of the box.  Worked well during initial slug tests off a bench while I searched for the slug brand and model which the gun "liked."   Then at the very end of testing started the infamous FF.  Seems to me, other than springs and cleanliness, there's really nothing else that can change the way the firearm functions. 

#2.  While the rest of the planet is moving to suppressors and reduced recoil loads, Benelli needs cannon shells to operate?   I had a case of 20ga, 3" Federal Trophy Copper around and used them in the M2 yesterday on a deer drive.  Targeted one animal and the M2 functioned with the 3" whereas it would not cycle with the same ammo in 2-3/4".  Hopefully it will continue in the future since I'd prefer to move away from the 12ga for the reduced recoil.  As for the SBEII, I've ordered a complete set of OEM replacement springs and hopefully those will return the weapon to original functionality.   

I kill quite a few deer and over the years have had 3 different guys want to shoot what I shoot.  I've told all three to buy a Browning gas gun.  Yes, highly disappointed, and pretty frustrated.  At least the M2 worked yesterday.  I may have developed a certain shot sequence over perhaps a hundred thousand rounds out of assorted shoulder fired weapons.  Yesterday?... I found myself firing the M2, then instantly rolling it to port to see if the bolt was in battery, then back vertical for a potential second target back in the brush.  I don't know if that's a testimonial to my instinctive ability to adapt, or a sad indication of lack of trust in my Benelli.  

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Hello Butch-M, glad to hear your Benelli functioned yesterday with the 3" shells.  I am near completion with the 20 Gauge slug M2.  A few observations I noticed was the OEM 20 Gauge spring, which is a different part number and is longer than the OEM 12 Gauge spring, seems pretty soft.  This is in comparison to current 20 gauge Benelli that are brand new, different models.  I will be testing three spring rates in the gun described with 2 3/4" Remington Premier Accu tip Slugs.  I would be more than happy to share with you these results after testing early next week.

Your owners manual states that 190 kilogram meter ( = 1374.27 foot pounds) is the minimum kinetic energy that a 20 gauge cartridge must generate to fully cycle the action of your inertial system (measured by manometric barrel at 1 meter from the muzzle).

To capture the kinetic energy to cycle your gun the gun needs to be shouldered in a normal fashion, if you held your gun in your hands alone and fired the gun kinetic energy forces the entire receiver  to the rear and your firearm may or may not cycle or close the breach bolt, likewise if you held the firearm against a brick wall, you may have similar results.  The M4 uses ARGO gas system to operate and control inertia, it can be shot from many different positions, which the gun developed, end user.

 

Please drop me a PM or a email, I would be glad to help.

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I used to frequent this forum years back when I was stacking up deer with a slug gun. I remember Mudhen.  I think he used to paddle his duck boat with his Benelli.  😉 Came across this old information posted by REMARKABLE back in 2009.  Found it when I was trying to find out what function the spring "inside" the recoil tube plunger assembly accomplishes.  You reported a few things I didn't consider.  One being chamber cleanliness.  Everything being immaculately clean is of course contrary to the AK47, shoots anywhere under any conditions, BS reputation Benelli has perpetrated...lol 

 

 

Edited by Butch-M

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Hello Butch M, I completed the testing on a customers M2 Slug Gun today CAT. 13081 Testing was done with Remington Accutip 260 Grain Sabot Slugs 2 3/4" 1850 velocity.  The gun performed flawlessly, 28 degree temps, this was done with a Wolff 25% increase recoil spring. I did buff out minor burring on the inside rail, charging handle, side. Several   observations were made. The 20 gauge spring OEM is very soft, different part number that the OEM 12 gauge spring. The chamber is bored very tight, I will be taking measurement of the M2 Slug Gun bore vs a field M2 20 gauge with a precision micrometer. Knowing this I made certain every shell fell into the chamber freely, this was with the barrel off the gun pointing down.  Any shell that was resistant was polished. Some Benelli "Cycling" issues can be attributed to this, such as when shooting BB's when the packing of the shot is not smooth inside of the shell case. Proper normal shouldering of the gun was precise, all optics removed from gun.

If I can assist you in any way please feel free to contact me.

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A bit off topic, but for what it's worth I've never seen so many deer need a second killing shot as I've seen with 20ga Remington Accutips.  I've seen hundreds of deer killed with slugs in Deer Management Programs. Many participants are enamored with the Savage 220F and that gun shoots those Accutips well.  Trouble is it seems like they were designed for African dangerous game and hardly expand.  Seem to just punch through.   I won't use them.  Remington just introduced a shell using the Barnes copper tipped bullet.  That bullet is what I use/used in the 12ga Benelli SBEII as a Federal.  Federal, for whatever reason, stopped loading the Barnes a few years ago and replaced it with a Trophy Copper.  The precision of the Trophy Copper performed identically in my gun; and the terminal ballistics were identical on deer.  My point being: anyone in love with Remington and using the Remington 20ga AccuTip should seriously consider the new Barnes bullet Remingtons.  Here's a 20ga Federal Trophy Copper from my M2 that I took out of a deer a few weeks ago.

 

By the way, I just ordered two chamber brushes; one 12ga and one 20ga for the Benelli chambers.  One question:  why the +25 Wolf spring?  Wouldn't the -25 be better for cycling issues?

 

Duke#1@12-5-18.jpg

Duke#2@12-5-18.jpg

Edited by Butch-M

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Couple more questions:

#1.  Is there any reason to disassemble the  Recoil Spring Plunger Assembly?  Why is there a spring inside that plunger to begin with?  Can it be causing or contributing to a cycling issue?

#2.  How hard is it to get the "Recoil Spring Assembly" off the receiver if I wanted to replace it with a "Sure Cycle" system?

#3.  Are the Sure Cycle recoil assemblies any good?  Do they solve the cycle problems? 

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Hello Butch -M, thank you for the insights about about slugs, I will be sure to pass this along to my customer.  As far as Wolff Springs.  The 25% decrease spring was developed for shooting light field load 7/8 or 1 oz in warm weather.  Benelli owners wanted a bit more flexibility in the cycling of their guns under different conditions with lighter ammunition. the 25% increase spring is used for heavier loads, cold weather which has a direct effect on the inertia system and cycling.  Your 20 gauge M2 Slug Gun and the one I just repaired was sent with a 20 gauge,  longer, softer spring.  

Could you PM me or email me about your three other questions. 

 

Thanks

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Just FYI, the older Browning A5's were NOT inertia-driven as with the Benelli.  They were long-recoil operating systems where the bolt and barrel are locked together and both move rearward upon firing.  At the end of movement to the rear, they unlock with the barrel moving forward, ejecting the spent case and, if there's one in the magazine, the bolt then goes forward, loading the following round.  French but with English subtitles:  

The newer A5's that have been recently been introduced do use a version of the inertia system.  The older Belgian versions, not.

Edited by truckcop

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I just replaced the original 2003 springs in my SBE2 with Benelli OEM replacements. The slug gun ran fine for about 7 years, then started failure to feed issues.  Replaced the recoil spring with a +25 Wolff, but that made no improvement.   Yesterday I replaced the recoil spring in the stock, inertia in the bolt, trigger and carrier springs in the trigger group, and the magazine tube spring.  With a very fine file, filed any nicks or high spots along the bolt to receiver guide rails. (surprisingly, quite a few small high spots)  Judiciously "Honed" out the shell chamber with a high quality chamber brush & solvent to be sure no residue was on the walls to hold a shell in any way.  Cleaned and lubed everything. 

For what it's worth, the action feels stronger and more robust cycling it by hand. Seems to go into battery more vigorously (violently?) upon pushing the carrier latch button.  I live in Socialist Republic of NJ, and it's a half day journey to fire a gun here, so I haven't shot the SBE2 yet, but it feels a lot better. 

A thanks to Remarkable for his advice on areas to address while looking to correct cycling issues of M2 and SBE shotguns. 

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call customer service again and talk to the manger... Paula Murdock..  301-283-6981 ext 475 and get her to take it in for service and have it looked at.

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59 minutes ago, GunCrazyD said:

call customer service again and talk to the manger... Paula Murdock..  301-283-6981 ext 475 and get her to take it in for service and have it looked at.

Thanks … I'll test the re-springed SBE2 on January 5th, and use the M2 with 3" shells on deer January 12th.  If there are any further cycling issues I'll take your advice. 

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Tested the SBE2 with new OEM springs and it functioned flawlessly using 3" Federal Barnes Expander shells.  

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