birdbrooks

I mentioned 1 oz loads-- I also like using a 20 GA for grouse. I will use a 12 w/ 1.25 oz loads for sharptails out in the open country, especially late season. I use an M2 20 GA or my trusty old M1 12 GA.

Grouse hunting...now you're talkin'! In Minnesota it's ruffed grouse that's King. I like to load up with any 1 oz load (preferred to 7/8th's, but really they're OK too). The key is to use #8 early season for a filled-in pattern- up 'til late October, especially if you like to hunt woodcock as well. You will certainly have a chance to do that in MN in October, and mixed shooting in the young aspen tulies is the rule. If the aspen stands have dogwoods mixed in with some mint or clover ground cover you're golden. The #8's really are preferable pattern-wise especially for woodcock, and I can honestly say I have shot hundreds of ruffed grouse and woodcock--over the last 38 years-- with 8's in the early season. Ruffs don't need a lot of killing, unlike a wild pheasant. SgtCathy is right on about late season birds busting out wild and a tighter choke and heavier shot really can help then, especially snow hunting. The set-up you describe, heavy #6's with a modified choke, is the right ticket for sharptails. Early season where I hunt them out west, they are in the buffalo brush and you can get up on them for those 30-35 yard shots. But after about October 1st or so, forget that, they're wild- you will be getting longer range shooting if you can get up on them in the draws adjacent to wheat fields etc. That's where your tighter (mod) choke will work real well. Don't forget too that all the Benellis, with the excellent modern ammo, and especially the cryo barrels, shoot real tight patterns. You'd be surprised how far you can clean fold a pheasant or a sharpie with even an IC choke.... Happy Hunting!

I remember when we were kids and our huntin' dogs (if we had any along) were less than totally reliable on retrieving those tough wing-tipped pheasants. I learned early that if I used 4's, and even better with copper #4's, that I made less than a perfect hard hit on a pheasant-- and that happens to all of us!-- I could still hustle over to a shot rooster that would stay anchored longer than one shot with 6's. This was my personal observation on many ocassions... that said, with the good dogs we use now, the patterns that 5's or 6's throw is better. 99% of the time I'll stick to 5's. They work no matter what the weather or conditions.

Nice! What kind of layout do you use? Like it? Thanks and good hunting!

I'm a big fan of the M2 and a bigger fan of the old M1's, which had a shell magazine retainer that allows you to manually remove shells from the magazine without cycling them through the chamber- like an old Ithaca #37, one of the best designs ever for fast loading and unloading. The M1 was right there with it. But the M2's handle so darn nice it makes up for that one deficiency, and they are simple, smooth shooting work horses that just can't be beat for reliability. The SBEII's I can't speak about with the same authority. I am leery of the real need for 3.5" shells for anything now that the 3" loads are so hard hitting, but if you want to shoot them, have at it. I will say have seen two friend's SBEII's repeatedly stove pipe (partially eject the shell and then it gets stuck in the ejection port) and yes, they know how to keep their guns cleaned, maintained and properly set up for cold weather. I think the inertia recoil has to be set up too stiff to handle the 3.5 shells and then it stove pipes on regular high vel or lower vel loads. All of this should get me in trouble with you SBEII guys-- sorry in advance, I just know what I see and experience!

What kind of grouse are you hunting? It's mostly ruffed grouse for us in MN but we hunt sharpies out west. I use a different gun for the two types- usually a 20 gauge Beretta for ruffs, but I can use the 20 gauge M2 for both, just different loads and choke.

TMAC is right on. #6's for a nice pattern, but #4 or 5's for knock-down and keep-down on wild birds. Copper plated shot all the better.

I have run a fair number of 7/8th's loads through my 20 Gauge M2 for quail and clay birds... not sure if that helps you answer the question for 12 gauge, but they do cycle through my 20 real nice. I usually run 3" mags through that same gun for pheasants.

I wonder if they got the 20 gauge BUL in there...?

Thank God for the good outcome, and thank goodness for your Gal's quick thinking (and bravery!) and last but not least, for the Second Amendment...

There's excellent advice in here from all of you. Me, I'd want to have more than one or even two shots available... you can't know how you are going to respond under stress and that can hamper your ability to perform. I like the idea of a multiple round short barreled shotgun- everyone here knows just how easy it can be for a pistol to miss even at very short range, and you will be under stress. If you have kids or other family in adjacent bedrooms, or live in an duplex or apartment building, you might want to re-think the 000, as effective as it is. It passes through walls mighty easy. If you need to defend yourself or family inside your dwelling, heavy bird shot will do the trick and minimize risk of innocents getting harmed. One more thought... if a perp hears the sound of a 12 gauge shell being jacked into a chamber, you probably won't have to do any shooting and risk the legal hassles.

CH... you are right! That ole' Ithaca iron is still ready to go... but after it had gotten cracked stock wood, bluin' worn through to the silver (steel!) a dent in the rib and the front sight knocked off, and a little balin' wire to hold it together, I went and sent it to a great gunsmith here in MN. I had saved some great walnut stock pieces-- the buttstock a AAA beauty from Fajen, and the forend an awesome piece from the old Herter's store in Waseca- I had bought the pieces and saved 'em for years. Anyhow, that gunsmith totally retooled every piece and reblued the whole gun and checkered and oiled the stock pieces... and it is one purty #37 right now. I went and gussied it up so much that I couldn't bear to take it out and abuse it all over again. I'd be embarrased to say how much I spent in 1982 dollars to git that done! I may just post a picture of it!

That's a great point, Matty, for the new buyers to remember about barrel length-- add in the length of the action (receiver) from the back of the receiver ramp, up to the muzzle to make real comparisons between shootin' irons...

It warms a Minnesota turkey hunter's heart to see a Tom taken in the snow! Congrats!

The M2 is a nice gun-- great handling, easy to maintain and clean, and soft shooting, not that "soft" recoil matters all as much as some people make it out to be. Have fun hunting whatever you get!

12 versus 20: I grew up taught not to shoot at anything from a woodcock to a goose or turkey over 40 yards regardless of load or gun. It taught us how to be good shots. We would stretch it just a hair on geese or diver ducks with heavier loads but we were using lead for everything for the first 20 years of my hunting. Now with all the great new loads, (and they do shot-string tighter) if you are a very good and confident shot, you can shoot pheasants and sharpies in particular at 45-50 yards, but that's really pushing it. I mention all this because you can do those things with a 12 gauge... but not a 20. And I know. I have shot many hundreds of rounds of 3" magnum 20's for pheasant and grouse in the last 35 years, and they are just fine out to 40 yards. After that, they can't compare to 12 ga 2 3/4 high brass w/ copper plated shot.... by the way I have a retired Ithaca 37 that was one monstrously reliable workhorse.

usmarine: you nailed it, sir. 24" is a heck of quick handling huntin' gun. I grew up getting my share of game way back with 28" pumps and autos. I graduated to short barreled side by sides for upland hunting. Then I got the M1S90 in 24" back in '94 and it is just one smooth handling duck and pheasant gun. It is so quick to shoulder. Then, I went and really spoiled myself by gettin' a 20 gauge M2 w/ the 24" barrel-- 6 pounds even! I don't even remember I'm carrying it half the time it's so light! I've been called a good shot but my style is snap shooting for the most part. Grew up on MN grouse... that'll teach you snap shooting if nuthin' else will! PS I think anything shorter than 24" is overdoin' it... I tried once a long time ago, learned my lesson.

bullelk, I've got a trusty M1S90 as well and haven't been the most diligent guy about that particular cleaning procedure, and you can get it away with not doin' it for a few seasons or so. It is worth getting in there and gittin 'er done... Continued good luck hunting! Thanks too MENeelz for the great post--- Birdbrooks

Joeb, Did they explain what the fix was on your M2? Just curious- thanks.

I have both guns and love them both. The M2 has the new technological advances and is very light feeling in the hands-- more so than the actual weight differential. In short, it handles better, but I've always thought the M1 is such a killer becasue it throws up to the shoulder so nicely. They both pattern like the blazes and just flat out hit hard and make clean kills. They are both soft reciol autos but the advances in the M2 are noticeable. The M1 has a solid milled trigger guard and a generally more "solid" feel--maybe that's the few extra ounces. Most importantly, what the M1 has that the M2 lacks is a functional carrier (release) latch for maually releasing shells from the magazine without cycling them through the chamber. M2 part # 057B. You are supposed to be able to do this with the M2's but they will not, short of a Hercluean effort. The latch was stiffened up in the M2 and the shell retainer is more aggressively formed; I reckon to keep shells from popping out of the mag prematurely during a shot (something I've never had happen with my M1; it was a bugaboo with the old Ithaca #37's). I will be contradicted about this by at least one of the Benelli techs cruising this site but my answer to that is-- go try a new M2 off the rack in any gauge. Put a shell down the mag, and try to release it and you'll see what I mean- the shell retainer latch cannot be properly operated. Result: to unload shells from the M2 magazine, they all get cycled through the breech, like it or not. But if you've developed a quick and easy unload routine like the M1 owners have, you won't like that restriction. Less safe too. Any auto Benelli is still in a league all it's own-- reliability, toughness, and hard hitting guns. I wouldn't let go of either gun.

Hello to any Benelli M1 20 owners out there-- how is your gun performing? As nice and problem free as the M1s in 12 gauge? Let me know! I have an M1 in 12 gauge and an M2 in 20 gauge-- they both have great features.... and differences. Thanks! Bill

I have just purchased one and have hunted several times with it-- you will be amazed at how that gun handles. it has the balance of a double, is light as a feather-- 5.7 lbs in 24"! In Minnesota it makes a heck of a great grouse gun-- then with 3" mag loads you are set for even windy weather pheasant or duck hunting. Prepare for your friends to get jealous if you get one. The new M2 20 ga. is great in all respects but as it appears is common to all M2's, the shells cannot be easily removed from the magazine by depressing the carrier latch-- at least on a new gun with tight tolerances.

BS or no? Well, they have registered as an assumed business name with the MN Sec of State's office, and they were indeed listed as a game fair vendor (as mwesterd said)-- Did you see any Season Shot ammo up there in Anoka at the Game Fair, mwesterd? Please elaborate! Thanks--Bill

I think there is some major leg pulling going on here--pretty clever stuff! Imagine the time to construct this web site as a prank! I'm going to check with some Game Fair vendors and see if I can get the skinny on this...

Thanks, stu-- The M2 that I own cycles shells up nicely from the magazine if I use the cartridge drop lever (on the trigger guard) regardless of brand, but will resist all but the mightiest effort to release any and all brand of shells from the mag by pressing on the carrier latch with a finger-- as is supposed to be an option for removing shells from an M2. I'm on a mission to find out how prevalent a problem this is. So far the poll is pretty even so there is no obvious conclusion thus far from that-- take care! Bill