joshua1240

The most pure and unending form of Love

LOL look at the minimum opening bid, minus the title of the auction the seller obviously knows what they have.

True, but I think more along the lines of people irritated that the combat shotgun they all really wanted, finally in its true configuration, was limited in quantity and too expensive for most. My guess is quite a few sour grapes were spilled by miffed M4 enthusiasts to the ATF about how this gun could be legal

I contacted Benelli back in May and then a week ago. Initially orders from the beginning of February were estimated to be available between June and July. The deadline was pushed to the right three months to September and October. When I paid for mine in February I was hearing about people from last year still waiting on fulfilment of their regular M4s so 7-8 months for one of these doesn't seem too terrible.

This is a WARNING to everyone interested in Kip's Merchandise!!!!!! Unless you want friendly personalized shipping notifications, fast processing and outstanding shipping times....LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE!!! The nerve of this guy selling me two products I needed and could not find anywhere else is astounding. Not only did he sell me two products I needed, they were exactly what he described them to be and they were perfect...in fact too perfect. If Kip expects his business to thrive on exceptional workmanship and quality he is SORELY MISTAKEN!!! And then the shipping box, which had a little sticker that said "Thank you for your Purchase." REALLY!?!? THANK ME?? How f'ing dare you make me thank myself for buying your inexpensive, useful, perfectly machined and painted products for my preferred shotgun. You're a massive jerk. Oh, and one last thing, I was on the email and his wife said 3-4 days shipping and it made it here in two not counting Sunday. Got a little problem with your tracking system Kip? cause I don't think this box getting here a day before your estimate is very f'n professional. You're lucky I am too dumb to spell out what BBB means or I would write them so fast and report your butt. Oh and one more last thing. I am a SFC but really I am a Master Gunny but really I am a Full Colonel and I expect to bash you from here on out until you fill out my hurt feelings report correctly.

Both of you shhh......don't you realize Kip is a liar and a dishonorable cheat who never gets his "products" off the design board and into eager consumers hands? Shame on you for misleading all these newb fanboy wannabe jokers. Shame! Oh, and order placed several hours ago...

Whatever chip you have on your shoulder with Kip, BigNose, whatever awful crime he committed against you in the past that you can't get over...can you please take it up in a PM with him? This thread isn't about your beef with his process, it's about the products that he has developed. When products are available he sells them, and the people who like what he has developed wait. He is under no contract to provide ANYONE here with dates/quantities/rates of production. Are you trying to convince others to take their business elsewhere? Why? If people have found their way into this thread it is because of word of mouth or because they have followed the truly competent posters on this forum such as KB, Unobtanium and the like....NOT posters like you! You tell me what you have created and sold to the benefit of your fellow Benelli enthusiasts? Crickets..... Take your disrespectful and snide comments and shove them where the sun doesn't shine you ignorant little cretin.

See Below:

I'm saying how do you get that his son is in the Army from the sentence H&K wrote? You don't, unless H&K made a previous post about it elsewhere on the forum. That's an assumption you made. There are plenty of things other people buy that you would not, if you're not offering to help save the lecture.

Christ you're thick...

Or he just wants to get a present for his son who is probably not in the Army or he would have gone to clothing and sales himself (where are you getting any of your reply from?). I will look tomorrow and see if my store sells them and get back with you.

How are those LTL rounds working out in your M4? Don't be a clown.

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No, what you were saying to benelliwerks was that there is some magical kinetic energy that makes the bolt retract, extract and then feed the next round when placed against a properly stanced individual...all while firing rounds less powerful than the weapon was designed to cycle. There is no "malfunction" from firing weak ammo. A malfunction means something is wrong with the weapon. There is a failure to fire, failure to feed or failure to extract due to the firer using low pressure ammunition. And I'm not making you out to say anything, I'm telling you what the gun was designed for. What you use it for is your business, the OP asked what ammunition to avoid and you bring up stuff that is good to know and experiment with but not when you are familiarizing yourself with the weapon right off the bat. It clouds the waters when this should be a fairly straight forward answer to the question "What will not work reliably in my M4?" If it's designed for a specific pressure, use rounds with that pressure or higher. Simple.

Which particular ass clown would that be? Because reading through the posts everyone in here wrote to support you and help you figure out what might be best starting out with this weapon. Calling any of us "ass clowns" makes you come off as an ingrate.

Sure it's absurd, buy the right ammo and the gun works fine, buy the cheap low FPSs stuff and now you have to stand a certain way to make it work reliably...maybe....hopefully. I've got all the newest military manuals on this weapon and I can't find a single diagram or photo of a certain stance to take when firing it. Nothing besides zeroing the weapon and pulling the trigger, now why is that? Could it be that it's really just that simple? That the last thing a Soldier/Marine needs to be worried about with his weapon is if his stance is correct? They're using the green hulled Winchester and Federal buck which is plenty cheap, but it's got the right amount of pressure to cycle the mechanism. If you're new to the weapon, why risk feeling like it might let you down in a crunch? Break it in with the right stuff and familiarize yourself with the operation using rounds it is sure to cycle. You're paying the high price for the M4 because of reliability and ease of use. I am not discounting using cheap stuff if you can make it work, good on ya, but not when you're starting out.

There, you said it yourself. I am sorry that you want to make this weapon perform consistently with ammunition it was not designed to shoot effectively. It is a COMBAT shotgun, not an all purpose shotgun. It was designed to cycle high power rounds reliably. Telling benelliwerkes he is wrong because you want the weapon to do something reliably that it was never designed to do is absurd. The OP asked for information about which rounds to avoid with his new shotgun, not a lecture about how if it fails to fire less powerful rounds it is because they are standing incorrectly. COMBAT SHOTGUN, 2 3/4-3" ammunition, 3 Dram Equivalent or Higher for RELIABLE operation of the weapon. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me that identifies the conversion of Dram to the current FPS notation on ammunition, but I believe if the FPS on the box says 1200+ you're good to go.

3 dram equivalent loads, anything that registers in the mid to high teens on the FPS scale. The only thing the gun needs you for is loading and pulling the trigger. If the weapon doesn't cycle it is because you are using weak loads or a maintenance issue, not because you didn't assume "John P. Foggybottom's patented M4 Combat Stance." What a load, it's a gas-operated weapon....will my AK fail to fire because I don't stand behind it? What about my AR-15....can't tell you how many times that thing has failed to fire when I didn't have time to pull it to my shoulder. The mechanism does not need your body weight to function, just stop shooting garbage rounds through it.

The XRAIL doesn't work on the M4 regardless.

You're not using a color to defeat night vision. If you're going up against n.v the least of your worries is if they can see your gun.

The only thing I've come up with while searching are issues with pressure involving steel cased ammo, but in those situations the issue is the pressure behind the cartridge instead of in front of it. When you take off the forward assembly there is actually a lip of plastic flush above where you are holding it, and for very hot gas to push through that instead of it's inclination to go the path of least resistance (up and out through the vents) makes me think it's being vented directly down. I think you'll want to write/call Benelli customer service and tell them what you're experiencing. There might be a simple explanation and fix involving the ARGO or there may be a deeper problem here.

I don't know what to call that. The two ports on either side on top of the forward stock are gas vents. What you are describing sounds like an over pressurization...as if there was a blockage or just too much hot gas for the port system to handle. The ARGO system only uses as much gas as is required to cycle the action and then vents the remainder out of the weapon. I'd like to know what kind of ammunition you are using. I'm wondering if you are using rounds that generate more pressure than the system was designed to deal with. Either that or your ports are somehow blocked forcing the venting to occur at the weakest seam...that being near the magazine.

Where are you gripping the stock? Near the magazine well or forward of the gas ports? The two vents at the top of the forward stock are hot gas vents for the ARGO system, but they should not be heating the surrounding plastic to such an extent to burn your hands. I don't own one but I have researched to buy, there should be a heat shield where the stock meets the barrel. Are you talking about the stock steadily getting warmer during firing?

Noticed over the last week and a half the H2O was no longer displayed on the main page: http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli-m4.php For the veteran folks what does this usually mean? That the initial and secondary production are spoken for?

There's nothing to understand. I mean I appreciate your stance but you don't have a vested interest in these weapon parts, KB has no interest, and the rest of us are just eating popcorn and watching this conversation unfold. My only suggestion here, and take it or leave it, is to let the whole matter go the way of the dodo. Ya know, with a statement like that you're a guilty party to this thing limping along as well. You're just as capable of not caring what he has to say as he is to not caring what you have to say on the topic. Not trying to make anyone out to be a child, but the best corollary for this is the "nu-uhh" "uh-huh" debates me and my sister used to have.