Unobtanium Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Maybe Kip knows? He alluded to the collapsible stock restored the balance of the weapon when combined with his Ti tube. I'd be shocked if the collapsible stock shaved a quarter pound really. No more than 6 ounces max. The added metal hardware to engage the lockup will make up the difference. If it does cut off 6 ounces or more, I may have to get one. A standard stock may reduce more weight than either due to the lack of a pistol grip. I'd weigh my overall weapon, but that would be pointless since it is a quasimodo mix between a 11703 and a 11707. I know this is a crappy way to do it, but I held the collapsible in my hand and stood on my scale, and then held the regular PG in my hand. THe scale was consistantly .5-.70# difference in weight. Keep in mind, that metal detent and pin in the collapsible is a lot smaller than the screws and large scew/sling loop in the regular PG stock. More metal in the regular one. *note, the PG itself on the collapsible was not included in this weight comparison. SO true difference I estimate at 7-9oz. That is my bet. I wonder what Kip says? I know he knows, lol. People like Kip know those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I kind of hope not, that upgrade will cost me a grand to loose half a pound or so since I need a replacement recoil tube for my 11703. I bet that's about what Christy Alley spends. Did you notice much difference in balance when you swapped stocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks! I figured I needed to return and get this lighting issue sorted out finally. I had some run ins with a snake and the weapon without a light wasn't a very good snake charmer at night. Plus as a home defense weapon, a light is mandatory. I'm not too concerned about how evil the weapon is perceived to be. I'll gladly go to jail knowing my family is safe. That's the price you pay in Communist America. The medical care in prison is great. Good dental plan too. My big hang-up is the availability of Surefire X400's. I want to put my X300 on the Benelli with a LaRue mount. On a side note, Sidearmor started ignoring my emails and would not comment on allocating a proper spec Picatinny rail. I've written them off as a viable platform. They seem to have no interest in correcting this flawed design. When I have a chance, I will weigh my factory handguards and then the Surefire setup to see how much weight I am adding. I hope to break even with the addition of Kip's magazine tube. This isn't a cheap project. With the mag tube, I have about 900 - 950 dollars invested in just the weapon light project. 230 - Surefire M80 205 - Surefire X300 75 - LaRue Mount 165 - XT07 picatinny rail mounted switch 75 - 16" tape switch wire 25 - Three packs of Magpul XTM rail covers 200 - Titanium magazine tube This doesn't account for other modifications I've performed like the gg&g oversized bolt release or the titanium bolt handle from Design Concepts (I recently saw that Brownells was back in stock). I'll reiterate that if you are going to run an optic, you must buy Kip's top rail if you want to maintain the longevity of your weapon. Your mount may seem like it fits, but you will damage your mount if you actually shoot the weapon. I beat an EOTech 552 on this shotgun to death. Had to send it back to EOTech because the reticle was so blurry. The bottom of the EOTech showed the signs of a poorly designed rail. Parts of the rail were cutting into the rail channel. This was with the GG&G accucam mount also, which is considered one of the better designs to deal with this ***** rail. Luckily I was able to sell this scope and mount for 360 and 60 dollars respectively on Gunbroker with full disclosure of where it had been. Even after the scope returned from EOTech, it was still more blurry than I was willing to accept or use. I'm really glad Duggan has been championing this issue and providing documentation about the deficiencies. The only way I'd ever mount an Aimpoint T-1 is if this rail is replaced (and the old one promptly sold on gunbroker If you're crying that there is no "side saddle" (nomenclature from Tacstar) option, I highly recommend a buttstock pouch. You shift the weight to the rear too. I'm looking at trying the buttstock mount that Mesa makes. I'm not sure if it fits the M4 or not yet. The nylon ones are okay, but they're a ***** to put the shells back into. So you find yourself avoiding them when practicing. They take two hands to insert a new round. Mesa used to be like this, did they get better? Duggan, you mentioned that you 86'ed the sling. Any reason why? I HATED the factory front sling mount. The Daniel Defense picatinny mount I stole from my SBR is great. It keeps the sling away from the handguard. Before I was always tangling the sling between my hand and the forearm. -Steve Pretty much that. I found it just got in the way and was unnecessary for a HD gun. I honestly haven't even shot my m4 much in the past year, I've been busy with my new rifles and handguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I kind of hope not, that upgrade will cost me a grand to loose half a pound or so since I need a replacement recoil tube for my 11703. I bet that's about what Christy Alley spends. Did you notice much difference in balance when you swapped stocks? There is a slight difference IMO, the fixed PG stock feels slightly less front heavy, but the difference is minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 There is a slight difference IMO, the fixed PG stock feels slightly less front heavy, but the difference is minimal. I would say the difference is 1/2#, but Kip will let us know for sure I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I was in the same boat you're in for a while. I've also been building up my new favorite handgun. It's the cheapest handgun I've ever bought, and so far it's been the bestest. Springfield Armory XDm, in 9mm. I also picked up and learned reloading. I want to start loading Benelli food. Particularly high brass buckshot. I'm going to coat the entire pistol FDE pretty soon. I'm waiting on my damn X400 to be coated with it. X300 and X400's are the best. I sold two procyon's last week. They're crap compared to the Surefire. I sold off an Ed Brown 1911 Kobra Carry. It was nice, but it wasn't really practical. I figure when Kip's Ti tube comes, I'll sell off the factory Benelli extension I have and the factory magazine tube on gunbroker. Some guy bought the factory limiter tube for like 25 - 30 bucks from me. There are a couple of guys on there who will buy anything with the name Benelli M4 in the title. I considered selling my stock handguards, but since the weapon light package I'm assembling is one single unit, I can swap the factory handguards for the M80 and run the shotty stock. I'd only loose out on the sling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Cool. I'd get an XD-M for sure if I could legally carry mags for it ... but good old NY screws me over and forces me to use a glock 19 if I want 15 round mags. No matter, the glock 19 is a great weapon and I'm getting pretty damn good at shooting it. I got some XS night sights for it a few weeks back and I am really liking them. I would buy your handguards if you ever decide to sell them, I've been meaning to try out some crazy mods. I'll take a second look at the sling. Edited June 1, 2009 by Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Arggg I want to know. I know the stock M4's weight b/c it's on Benelli's site. I know that I lose about 1/2# from the full-length Ti tube, and I want to know how much I shaved by getting a collapsible stock. Curious what my leaned up M4 weighs, lol The collapsible stock saves .7 oz. Not a typo. It's just a smidge lighter than the one piece PG stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgunNoob Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't claim that yet man, look at the chin/neck. The face was cut out of this picture...Ahh...good point. I meant, how did he find a picture of my sister. Umm..wait a minute, thats even more creepy. I mean..how did he find a pic of...aww h*ll with it. Guns + well...you know, tends to become the equivalent of "beer goggles" for me. What can I say? Edited June 2, 2009 by shotgunNoob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Ahh...good point. I meant, how did he find a picture of my sister. Umm..wait a minute, thats even more creepy. I mean..how did he find a pic of...aww h*ll with it. Guns + well...you know, tends to become the equivalent of "beer goggles" for me. What can I say? Put down the Jergins and step away from the computer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgunNoob Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) I ran out of Jergens a few hours ago...all I have left is Hoppes #9...will that work? If someone breaks in your house or in your dwelling and you feel threatened for your life you are not going to give a rats butt cheek what the law says, but thankful you have a gun to protect yourself! i am going for the dome Well, maybe...but you darn sure will once you find yourself in court and all potential consequences/fees associated with such an event. If you are exonerated due to a clear cut case of self-defense, well...then you have a potential civil suit looming over your head. Defending your life isnt as cut and dry as it should be...not by any means, IMHO. Words from a famous 1900's poet " Rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"I agree..But, its also wise to make as few assumptions as possible, lest one intends on becoming a potential/repetitive rape victim while a resident of the local penitentiary. Plus as a home defense weapon, a light is mandatory.I once thought this as well (particularly for shotguns). But, given the additional weight (on top of using a heavy walled barrel) I opted to keep the light off of the SG and just use tritium sights. Sure, target acquisition isnt as available, but at least I know where the muzzle is pointed. Besides, I make sure that there is plenty of illumination (via various lights) throughout the house at night. If it comes down to it, I will grab the pistol (also sporting tritium sights) in one hand and a flashlight in another. Yes, not as convenient as a weapon mounted light, but actually it does provide more options. If nothing else, keeping a light off the weapon (shotgun or handgun) will a). minimize the possibility of unintended fire should something "unexpected" fall within direct illumination as "aiming" a weapon mounted light requires the muzzle to be trained on an object/person as well and b). minimize the possibility of becoming a "target" due to the inability of separating the weapon from the light (thus, creating an origin of illumination which..guess what...you are right behind). Now, Im all for weapon mounted light systems and can see their uses. But, and I truly had to retrain my initial impulses on this, I am beginning to believe that such systems are primarily of benefit in a "search, secure and possibly destroy" type situation (LE, for instance) rather than a "stand and defend" type situation (HD, for instance). Edited June 2, 2009 by shotgunNoob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I agree..But, its also wise to make as few assumptions as possible, lest one intends on becoming a potential/repetitive rape victim while a resident of the local penitentiary. Who Knows you might like it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgunNoob Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Who Knows you might like it ! I guess this is possible. Sick...but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I guess this is possible. Sick...but possible. It was only a yolk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 I agree..But, its also wise to make as few assumptions as possible, lest one intends on becoming a potential/repetitive rape victim while a resident of the local penitentiary. Who Knows you might like it ! You have a victim mentality. Maybe he wants to BE the rapist? Ever think of that. Think like a predator. Not a sheep. He would have unlimited victims. Almost no legal repercussions. Perfect predator environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 You have a victim mentality. Maybe he wants to BE the rapist? Ever think of that. Think like a predator. Not a sheep. He would have unlimited victims. Almost no legal repercussions. Perfect predator environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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