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Do you people come here to discuss your Benelli's or did you folk miss getting tickets to the Jerry Springer Show?

http://www.jerryspringertv.com/get_tickets.php

 

Some of you people need a therapist, a lawyer, or will soon need a parole officer. :eek:

I'm straight and I still strongly dislike 90% of the women out there
if you splayed the intruder's forehead with the butt-end of the shotgun
"Stop Abortion - kill sluts"
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Slugo,

It's all part of the silly season on Benelli USA forums.

No duck season, no turkey season, no deer season.

Nothing much to talk about except tacticool stuff and each other.

 

I can't wait for September, when we get a whole new batch of these:

 

"Hey, I paid $x,xxxx for this shotgun and it shoots high and to the left!"

 

"My safety is too noisy and it will scare away the doves"

 

"What's the best barrel length for hunting everything?"

 

"Which end of the shell goes in first, the one that looks like cousin Thelma's navel or the shiny one?"

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Duggan,

I find your sense of humor to be appalling and feel as if I have been emotionally raped. There is also lightly hidden racism in your post.

 

You took an incredible licking in my day journal today. One I'm sure you won't forget!

 

I just cried and cried at the thought of the plight those poor sluts face every day. It's hard to be apart of a three-way train seven days a week. I felt so bad, I sent them this shirt to help them choose what is right for them:

 

babiesblow_small1.jpg

 

Signed Stranger Danger. Formerly known as StevenB. ;)

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Duggan,

I find your sense of humor to be appalling and feel as if I have been emotionally raped. There is also lightly hidden racism in your post.

 

You took an incredible licking in my day journal today. One I'm sure you won't forget!

 

I just cried and cried at the thought of the plight those poor sluts face every day. It's hard to be apart of a three-way train seven days a week. I felt so bad, I sent them this shirt to help them choose what is right for them:

 

babiesblow_small1.jpg

 

Signed Stranger Danger. Formerly known as StevenB. ;)

 

 

Haha, I laugh at people when they find something racist that is not meant to be. I find it supremely funny.

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Duggan,

I find your sense of humor to be appalling and feel as if I have been emotionally raped. There is also lightly hidden racism in your post.

 

You took an incredible licking in my day journal today. One I'm sure you won't forget!

 

I just cried and cried at the thought of the plight those poor sluts face every day. It's hard to be apart of a three-way train seven days a week. I felt so bad, I sent them this shirt to help them choose what is right for them:

 

babiesblow_small1.jpg

 

Signed Stranger Danger. Formerly known as StevenB.

 

No sh%t! I had wondered who the heck you were when you came back under a new name with 10k rounds down your m4 and knowledge of issues ... turns out I knew who you were all along. You forget your password or something? :)

 

Welcome back, StevenB!

 

And I'd reply to what I initially said, but apparently some mod here deleted it, and now that I'm sober I don't remember what I said that was so offensive. Damn.

 

But yes, sluts need love too, etc.

Edited by Duggan
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How would prosecution follow justified home defense? Even if you splayed the intruder's forehead with the butt-end of the shotgun, the stock does not manifest ill will or intent, the homeowner's will to prevail would be on trial.
Depends I guess..but Im no attorney. From what I understand, certain accessories in and of themselves are not always the issue. Its when they are combined with OTHER various accessories that issues may arise. Im not saying that this stock of his falls in this category, but some lawyers, and certainly anti-gun or less knowledgeable jury members, may see setups like this as "joy killing machines," for the lack of a better phrase and therefore, question the mentality of one owning such a modified weapon. Besides, Im sure certain states do not allow certain accessories to be placed on a weapon and if they are (and used on an HD weapon), in essence, the owner would be commiting a felony...even if justifiably defending his life with deadly force. This could lead to jail time....

 

Regardless of any legalities, also keep in mind that sometimes appearances can make a difference (to a scary degree).

 

Again, Im no attorney so...Besides, I think the stock in question looks cool and should be useful. I didnt mean to branch off into a legal debate as this is certainly not my area of expertise. I was merely making an off-handed comment. ;)

 

Hopefully a good defense attorney would argue the stock was an enhancement which facilited ease of navigating in HIS OWN house.
You would hope...Then again, there are exceptional prosecutors out there who could ruin ones life if so inclined.

 

Most of us see collapsable stocks, weapon mounted lights, special optics, night sights, etc. as allowing for proper/improved sight acquisition, improved "safety," better handling...whatever. But, to others, such devices merely make an already deadly device even moreso and therefore, they may see such an accessorized weapon as existing for only one reason.. the more effecient/effective means of taking a human life.

 

This is not my belief of course, but it would be unwise to dismiss such concerns as ridiculous (particularly when dealing with an HD exclusive weapon).

 

Would I worry about such matters during or after an HD encounter? Probably not. However, I do tend to keep this stuff in mind the rest of the time. Whether justified or not (when speaking of an HD shooting), I prefer to shorten that proverbial rope rather than lengthen it by having a "tricked out" weapon. This varies, of course, but its a general habit/mindset that I am beginning to adapt to (for various reasons...not all of them having to do with legal matters).

Edited by shotgunNoob
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Hey M1014, how did you snag a pic of my wife? Dammit, I told her to stay off of "MySpace." :)

I wouldn't claim that yet man, look at the chin/neck. The face was cut out of this picture...

 

I AM FINALLY AWARE! of a man prosecuted--and convicted--with the basis of such, his use of a 10mm handgun (instead of a 9mm or "lesser caliber") as a large nail in the coffin of his trial.

 

HE warned his assailant (who approached him yelling, screaming, and moving his hands in a threatening manner while he was out hiking) verbally. Warned him he had a firearm. When the man finally closed in to a few yards, still screaming obscenities ("Im going to f*cking kill you") and waving his arms in a threatening manner, the man fired several rounds rapidly, striking the assailang in the torso region fatally.

 

THe man administered first-aid and called 911 immediately and requested medical help for his attacker--who had a prior history of violence and mental illness.

 

The shooter was prosecuted successfully for manslaughter.

 

Pure ********. But it happened. A major part of the prosecutors argument was his use of a 10mm handgun loaded with hollowpoint ammunition, "which was intended to kill the assailant". The man argued that he did what was necessary to stop the assailant--the prosecution argued his use of the 10mm and hollowpoints along with firing more than once indicated premeditation.

 

Prosecution was successful.

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I wouldn't claim that yet man, look at the chin/neck. The face was cut out of this picture...

 

I AM FINALLY AWARE! of a man prosecuted--and convicted--with the basis of such, his use of a 10mm handgun (instead of a 9mm or "lesser caliber") as a large nail in the coffin of his trial.

 

HE warned his assailant (who approached him yelling, screaming, and moving his hands in a threatening manner while he was out hiking) verbally. Warned him he had a firearm. When the man finally closed in to a few yards, still screaming obscenities ("Im going to f*cking kill you") and waving his arms in a threatening manner, the man fired several rounds rapidly, striking the assailang in the torso region fatally.

 

THe man administered first-aid and called 911 immediately and requested medical help for his attacker--who had a prior history of violence and mental illness.

 

The shooter was prosecuted successfully for manslaughter.

 

Pure ********. But it happened. A major part of the prosecutors argument was his use of a 10mm handgun loaded with hollowpoint ammunition, "which was intended to kill the assailant". The man argued that he did what was necessary to stop the assailant--the prosecution argued his use of the 10mm and hollowpoints along with firing more than once indicated premeditation.

 

Prosecution was successful.

It would be very interesting to see what happened when his conviction was appealed. Generally, the appeals court has more common sense than the jury/trial judge. IMHO.

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Guest cleefurd

  • .....but some lawyers, and certainly anti-gun or less knowledgeable jury members, may see setups like this as "joy killing machines," for the lack of a better phrase....

  • Besides, Im sure certain states do not allow certain accessories to be placed on a weapon and if they are (and used on an HD weapon), in essence, the owner would be commiting a felony...

  • You would hope...Then again, there are exceptional prosecutors out there who could ruin ones life if so inclined.

  • But, to others, such devices merely make an already deadly device even moreso and therefore, they may see such an accessorized weapon as existing for only one reason.. the more effecient/effective means of taking a human life.

  • This is not my belief of course, but it would be unwise to dismiss such concerns as ridiculous (particularly when dealing with an HD exclusive weapon).

  • I prefer to shorten that proverbial rope rather than lengthen it by having a "tricked out" weapon..

1.It would be a "joy" to prevail over an intruder

 

2.Some states do, and worst-case it would be a misdemeanor as firearms related contra-band, since it is not NFA related, nor does it alter firing mode.

 

3. Get rid of those prosecutors. (pen is mightier)

 

4. More effective home defense gooood.

 

5. Nothing dismissed. Pros outweigh cons when determining survivability prior to resultant trial.

 

6. I prefer to lengthen the intruder's rope by accessorizing.

Edited by cleefurd
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1.It would be a "joy" to prevail over an intruder

 

2.Some states do, and worst-case it would be a misdemeanor as firearms related contra-band, since it is not NFA related, nor does it alter firing mode.

 

3. Get rid of those prosecutors. (pen is mightier)

 

4. More effective home defense gooood.

 

5. Nothing dismissed. Pros outweigh cons when deterining survivability prior to resultant trial.

 

6. I prefer to lengthen the intruder's rope by accessorizing.

 

I agree with all points made, but the justice system is just a payed service. Got the cash or connection? You get the verdict, 9x out of 10.

 

Maybe I am biased, but I can back it up with landmark case after case.

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If someone breaks in your house or in your dwelling and you feel threatened for your life you are not going to give a rats butt cheek what the law says, but thankful you have a gun to protect yourself! i am going for the dome :eek:

 

Words from a famous 1900's poet " Rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"

 

Ice Cube

Edited by heckler&kochp2000
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If someone breaks in your house or in your dwelling and you feel threatened for your life you are not going to give a rats butt cheek what the law says, but thankful you have a gun to protect yourself! i am going for the dome :eek:

 

Words from a famous 1900's poet " Rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"

 

Ice Cube

 

Meh, I can do a fast mag dump. Center-mass with buckshot. Totally sick. Lots of holes, I calculated something like the equivalent of a 25"+ hole if all pellets hit and none "double-up", which I am sure they will, but still!

 

Hitting someone COM will at least hamper their movement until I am done with the mag (impact is equal to recoil if all energy is "dumped", which with buckshot it's somewhat close. SO it will be a decent shove, even if it isn't a movie-esque LAUNCH!, lol), and that's a LOT! of damage, and I am sure at least 1 pellet would hit the CNS/spine.

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Thanks!

 

I figured I needed to return and get this lighting issue sorted out finally. I had some run ins with a snake and the weapon without a light wasn't a very good snake charmer at night.

 

Plus as a home defense weapon, a light is mandatory. I'm not too concerned about how evil the weapon is perceived to be. I'll gladly go to jail knowing my family is safe. That's the price you pay in Communist America. The medical care in prison is great. Good dental plan too.

 

My big hang-up is the availability of Surefire X400's. I want to put my X300 on the Benelli with a LaRue mount.

 

On a side note, Sidearmor started ignoring my emails and would not comment on allocating a proper spec Picatinny rail.

 

I've written them off as a viable platform. They seem to have no interest in correcting this flawed design.

 

When I have a chance, I will weigh my factory handguards and then the Surefire setup to see how much weight I am adding. I hope to break even with the addition of Kip's magazine tube.

This isn't a cheap project. With the mag tube, I have about 900 - 950 dollars invested in just the weapon light project.

230 - Surefire M80

205 - Surefire X300

75 - LaRue Mount

165 - XT07 picatinny rail mounted switch

75 - 16" tape switch wire

25 - Three packs of Magpul XTM rail covers

200 - Titanium magazine tube

This doesn't account for other modifications I've performed like the gg&g oversized bolt release or the titanium bolt handle from Design Concepts (I recently saw that Brownells was back in stock).

 

I'll reiterate that if you are going to run an optic, you must buy Kip's top rail if you want to maintain the longevity of your weapon. Your mount may seem like it fits, but you will damage your mount if you actually shoot the weapon. I beat an EOTech 552 on this shotgun to death. Had to send it back to EOTech because the reticle was so blurry. The bottom of the EOTech showed the signs of a poorly designed rail. Parts of the rail were cutting into the rail channel. This was with the GG&G accucam mount also, which is considered one of the better designs to deal with this ***** rail. Luckily I was able to sell this scope and mount for 360 and 60 dollars respectively on Gunbroker with full disclosure of where it had been.

Even after the scope returned from EOTech, it was still more blurry than I was willing to accept or use.

 

I'm really glad Duggan has been championing this issue and providing documentation about the deficiencies. The only way I'd ever mount an Aimpoint T-1 is if this rail is replaced (and the old one promptly sold on gunbroker :p

 

If you're crying that there is no "side saddle" (nomenclature from Tacstar) option, I highly recommend a buttstock pouch. You shift the weight to the rear too. I'm looking at trying the buttstock mount that Mesa makes. I'm not sure if it fits the M4 or not yet. The nylon ones are okay, but they're a ***** to put the shells back into. So you find yourself avoiding them when practicing. They take two hands to insert a new round. Mesa used to be like this, did they get better?

 

Duggan, you mentioned that you 86'ed the sling. Any reason why? I HATED the factory front sling mount. The Daniel Defense picatinny mount I stole from my SBR is great. It keeps the sling away from the handguard. Before I was always tangling the sling between my hand and the forearm.

 

-Steve

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Thanks!

 

I figured I needed to return and get this lighting issue sorted out finally. I had some run ins with a snake and the weapon without a light wasn't a very good snake charmer at night.

 

Plus as a home defense weapon, a light is mandatory. I'm not too concerned about how evil the weapon is perceived to be. I'll gladly go to jail knowing my family is safe. That's the price you pay in Communist America. The medical care in prison is great. Good dental plan too.

 

I hear they also have free colon exams...

 

My big hang-up is the availability of Surefire X400's. I want to put my X300 on the Benelli with a LaRue mount.

 

I have an M600C setup I am letting go for $240. It is an upgraded M600A with the KX2C head and a Z61 tail-cap b/c I think the Z68 was a pain to access due to the guard. Been through 1-2 sets of batteries used as a hand-held. Never used on a weapon w/live ammo. Just static mounted for fondling.

 

On a side note, Sidearmor started ignoring my emails and would not comment on allocating a proper spec Picatinny rail.

 

Kip is taking care of it (for the reciever anyways).

 

I've written them off as a viable platform. They seem to have no interest in correcting this flawed design.

 

When I have a chance, I will weigh my factory handguards and then the Surefire setup to see how much weight I am adding. I hope to break even with the addition of Kip's magazine tube.

This isn't a cheap project. With the mag tube, I have about 900 - 950 dollars invested in just the weapon light project.

230 - Surefire M80

205 - Surefire X300

75 - LaRue Mount

165 - XT07 picatinny rail mounted switch

75 - 16" tape switch wire

25 - Three packs of Magpul XTM rail covers

200 - Titanium magazine tube

This doesn't account for other modifications I've performed like the gg&g oversized bolt release or the titanium bolt handle from Design Concepts (I recently saw that Brownells was back in stock).

 

WTF? I thought Brownells said "Discontined by MFR." Please verify this information for us/me?

 

I'll reiterate that if you are going to run an optic, you must buy Kip's top rail if you want to maintain the longevity of your weapon. Your mount may seem like it fits, but you will damage your mount if you actually shoot the weapon. I beat an EOTech 552 on this shotgun to death. Had to send it back to EOTech because the reticle was so blurry. The bottom of the EOTech showed the signs of a poorly designed rail. Parts of the rail were cutting into the rail channel. This was with the GG&G accucam mount also, which is considered one of the better designs to deal with this ***** rail. Luckily I was able to sell this scope and mount for 360 and 60 dollars respectively on Gunbroker with full disclosure of where it had been.

Even after the scope returned from EOTech, it was still more blurry than I was willing to accept or use.

 

I'm really glad Duggan has been championing this issue and providing documentation about the deficiencies. The only way I'd ever mount an Aimpoint T-1 is if this rail is replaced (and the old one promptly sold on gunbroker :p

 

If you're crying that there is no "side saddle" (nomenclature from Tacstar) option, I highly recommend a buttstock pouch. You shift the weight to the rear too. I'm looking at trying the buttstock mount that Mesa makes. I'm not sure if it fits the M4 or not yet. The nylon ones are okay, but they're a ***** to put the shells back into. So you find yourself avoiding them when practicing. They take two hands to insert a new round. Mesa used to be like this, did they get better?

 

I guess you saw that Kip has it handled...Yeah, we love the guy. He LISTENS to us and helps us where it's possible, unlike Mesa and others.

 

Duggan, you mentioned that you 86'ed the sling. Any reason why? I HATED the factory front sling mount. The Daniel Defense picatinny mount I stole from my SBR is great. It keeps the sling away from the handguard. Before I was always tangling the sling between my hand and the forearm.

 

-Steve

 

Can you also weigh a collapsible stock/PG and compare it to the fixed PG's weight?

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I can weigh the pistol grip stock on my postal scale at work. I don't have a collapsible one though. I'd be interested in the weight difference also.

 

Arggg :(

 

I want to know. I know the stock M4's weight b/c it's on Benelli's site. I know that I lose about 1/2# from the full-length Ti tube, and I want to know how much I shaved by getting a collapsible stock. Curious what my leaned up M4 weighs, lol

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Maybe Kip knows? He alluded to the collapsible stock restored the balance of the weapon when combined with his Ti tube.

 

I'd be shocked if the collapsible stock shaved a quarter pound really. No more than 6 ounces max. The added metal hardware to engage the lockup will make up the difference. If it does cut off 6 ounces or more, I may have to get one.

 

A standard stock may reduce more weight than either due to the lack of a pistol grip.

 

I'd weigh my overall weapon, but that would be pointless since it is a quasimodo mix between a 11703 and a 11707.

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