BamBam Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Good Grief, I have fairly long rant that I hope will be appreciated here. On other various forums, it is mind-boggling to me how people constantly inquire/compare/suggest/..if the Benelli M4 is a good shotgun for 3-gun, race competitions, hunting or for shooting sports. Immediately the universal responses (I mostly agree) are that the M2 is lighter & better suited for 3 gun & other race/speed applications, hunting & shooting sports. Then of course, all the Beretta 1301 advocates chime in, due to it’s lighter weight as well. Lighter weight & better swing/overall balance are valid reasons relative to race-competition shotguns, shooting sports, and some hunting applications. However, what gives me major eye-roll..is when so many people continually make ignorant claims comparing reliability. I hear this all the time & everywhere ..”the M4 gas system has softer recoil but it’s not as reliable as the M2 or Beretta 1301”..”the M4 is heavier than the M2”..”the M4 is way overpriced”..”the M2 has more aftermarket support”..”the Beretta 1301 is less expensive/a better value” It’s as if people are unable/don’t want to comprehend the BM4’s purpose built intention..requested openly for submission in 1998 by the US Military for manufacturers to provide a 12ga. combat-reliable semi auto shotgun platform that goes boom when it matters most in the harshest of conditions. Many Beretta 1301 owners are unaware that Beretta owns Benelli. Additionally, most 1301 owners are clueless their 1301 piston system somewhat replicates the BM4 ARGO system, however the difference is the 1301 piston system is heavier with more moving & complex parts as failure points. As a long time owner of two BM4’s both of which are fully modified with known parts, I have used them occasionally to hunt various creatures, with various loads including birdshot..very successfully. I love bringing my M4 to all sorts of shooting clays/sports..and every time other shooters I have never met come up to me puzzled and often ask to handle & shoot my M4 live with a full spread of discs..they always smile & shake their head as they pass the gun back to me. However, the BM4 cannot compete with purpose built & tricked out over/under shotguns for shooting sports..something BM4 owners know & we don’t insist otherwise. Relative to 12ga. semi auto platform reliability, battle-proven by US & other world wide militaries for near 3 decades across conflicts in extreme conditions, in firearms history there has never been a more reliable semi auto shotgun than the Benelli M4 and it’s ARGO system..always copied but never duplicated or improved upon yet! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 I think what it all boils down to is a need for validation. People make a purchase based on whatever parameters they deem important and then look around for validation from others that they made the best choice. My opinion is to enjoy the process of the purchase and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Use it for whatever you want. Become proficient with your platform. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I have never really been a shotgun guy, yes I have owned them and the very first gun I ever purchased was a Remington 870. Yet, I never really looked at them in any serious manner. I had a very flawed view of what they are and the effects it has in combat or self-defense. I just thought of them as a range toy that should never be taken seriously. I have always been a rifle and pistol guy, even building my own AR-type rifles and having a CCW, and carrying the best pistol ever created, 1911, every day with tons of practice and training with both those platforms. Until recently, I witnessed the absolutely devasting effects the shotgun has and the ability to use it for self-defense in an extremely accurate and proficient way. This is what lead me down the shotgun rabbit hole. The more I have studied and researched shotguns and the ability to use them in ways I never thought possible made me reevaluate how I look at shotguns. When going down this rabbit hole the one shotgun that kept coming up over and over was the Benelli M4. Everything about it shows it as being the most effective tool for the job. So, I thought let me get one and judge for myself, and so I just bought one and have been a proud owner of it for two days now lol. I have already put 100 rounds of various ammo through it of course with your guy's help with the proper choke as well, and I must say I am very very impressed with its abilities. I did not come into this with a biased view or a "favorite brand" when I got this shotgun. To be honest, it was between the M4 and the Mossberg 940 JM Pro, which was made by this shotgun shooting competition guy named Jerry Miculek. In the end, after doing all the comparisons and research I chose the M4 and do not regret it for one second. My 14-year-old daughter shot it as well and is now her favorite firearm in my collection. All that being said, I think people come into this with a tribalistic view. They have been shooting "x" guns for their whole lives and nothing will ever be better than it no matter what. I completely understand that as I do tend to have a bias towards certain types of firearms and rifles, yet with shotguns, I had no mind towards one brand or another or which type over another. I just wanted what has been proven reliable and has a history of continued use with positive outcomes. People also like to be contrarians and what to go against what is popular or what people say is the best, simply to be different, and that is fine to a point. When you start to overlook or deny the facts then you are only hurting yourself. The other thing that comes up is that people will follow their favorite Youtuber and take their advice or copy and mimic them to a nauseating end and ignore what everyone else says simply because "Joe Blow on Youtube said x,y,z, and I trust and believe him/her no matter what anybody else says". As I do not have experience with all the different makes and models of all the shotguns out there I can say this. The Benelli M4 so far for me has been a wonderful firearm when I have shot it and it has gone far beyond what my expectations are of what a shotgun is and what a well-built shotgun can do. I plan on taking some classes here soon to get better trained with it and learn from people who are further down the road than I on how to correctly operate and manipulate this awesome piece of machinery. I hope to learn more from you all as well I have found some great information on this website that has helped me better understand this firearm and I thank you all for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) Man that first post, are we sure that's not a spam bot? lol Justification and/or fanboy blind devotion. The M4 certainly has them like few other firearms. (the only other gun that comes close in my mind is everyone's recent love affair with the "Staccato". STI made these 2011 pistols for years and they were scorned by "real shooters" as gamer guns and not to be taken seriously. They changed the name of the company, made them black, hung a bunch of shit all over them and now they're every Timmie's ultimate wet dream pistol.) "When going down this rabbit hole the one shotgun that kept coming up over and over was the Benelli M4. Everything about it shows it as being the most effective tool for the job." What job is that? That's the problem. It's a job that almost no one who buys them is actually doing. (and I don't mean pretend practicing to do it, "training"., LARP'ing and fantasy camp with guns.) The M4's problem is it's one trick pony. That problem's not exclusive to the M4, other than that it's only available in the one dress. (short barrel and ghost rings) Plenty of other guns come like that, but unlike the M4 they also come in other variations. The "issue" comes when people buy what they really don't need. Don't take that the wrong way, people can buy whatever they what for whatever reason the want, or no reason at all. Lord knows I have dozens of guns I sure don't "need" or use for their intended purpose) Like anything else when you try to press it into service for other tasks, yes you can make it work to some degree, but it will never work as well as the right tool. And that's what people are pointing out. The M4's "problem" is too many people buy it because they saw it in movies and video games and know it's the bestest gun ever. (It very well may be, but if it is, it's for doing things they don't do) The old saying was "Beware of the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it." Years ago when I worked at a large public shooting range, my mind was changed to "Beware of the man with one gun, he probably hasn't used it in a really long time." Now it might be, "Beware of the man with only one gun, he bought it because of a video game." Anyway... back around the the very first thing I wrote before adding all of the rambling nonsense above: I suppose it's all about realities. For ME, I've yet to come up with anything my M4 does better than the other models. That's ME. (other than yes it kicks a little less than my inertia guns, because it's gas and almost 2 lbs heavier than a similarly appointed M2. But that is of minor importance to me.) Edited March 6, 2023 by cas 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 For 3 gun I would opt for the M2 over the M4 due to faster handling, JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 3/6/2023 at 1:42 PM, Sukhoi_fan said: For 3 gun I would opt for the M2 over the M4 due to faster handling, JMO. Why? Is the M2 lighter or something? I have never shot or handled the M2 so I am curious about it. I just recently bought the M4 and to be honest it feels pretty light and handles great even when shooting slugs and heavy buck rounds. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 3/6/2023 at 5:19 AM, cas said: What job is that? Well, the job I expect it to do is home/self-defense. I and many others that I have seen that buy this weapon use it for that. As well as just plinking with it and shooting clay etc. On 3/6/2023 at 5:19 AM, cas said: and I don't mean pretend practicing to do it, "training"., I am not sure what you mean by that. What is "pretend practicing"? Every time you shoot a firearm it is practice unless you are just going out and dumping rounds into the ground, which I don't know who does that, but I am sure some people do but that is such a small minority and is the exception. On 3/6/2023 at 5:19 AM, cas said: The M4's problem is it's one trick pony. I don't know about that. People use it as I have mentioned for home/self-defense, hunting, and target practice, I have seen some people say they use it for 3 gun, law enforcement, and military, etc. So, I don't know if I fully agree with you on that comment. On 3/6/2023 at 5:19 AM, cas said: Lord knows I have dozens of guns I sure don't "need" or use for their intended purpose Definitely agree with you on that one lol. Thanks for your post and input on the subject. Hope to talk to you more! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 hours ago, John Doe said: Why? Is the M2 lighter or something? I have never shot or handled the M2 so I am curious about it. I just recently bought the M4 and to be honest it feels pretty light and handles great even when shooting slugs and heavy buck rounds. Thanks! M4 = 7.8 lbs M2 = 6.7 lbs 7.8 lbs isn't 'light'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 5 hours ago, Sukhoi_fan said: M4 = 7.8 lbs M2 = 6.7 lbs 7.8 lbs isn't 'light'. I suppose that is subjective. I am a large, strong man that lifts weights, so 7.8 lbs to me is pretty light. If you are a smaller or physically weaker man or a woman then I can see that being heavy(please do not take offense I don't mean to say that in a derogatory way), but is that the only reason why the M2 is better for 3 gun than the m4? Does it cycle faster or have some other benefits other than being lighter? I ask out of curiosity as I have never handled nor shot the M2 and you make mention of this in your comment. Thank you! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 Actually..and not to get into a pissing contest here..the BM4 is offered in quite a few different variety models. Albeit the heart/primary nomenclature of receiver-barrel-system does not change, but that is also fairly standard of how other shotgun manufacturers offer their platforms. The BM2 is a terrific overall & lighter platform vs. the M4. The M2 has been proven extremely successful/popular, particularly amongst 3-gunners and other competitive shooters..where it is often tricked out/customized & further lightened in weight than factory OEM. However, sticking to & emphasizing reliability in any/all environmental conditions?..the ARGO system of the BM4 always comes out on top vs. the inertia system of the M2. This is because the BM4’s ARGO system utilizes a short-stroke, 2 stainless steel piston design that totals only 4 parts. It has been compared numerous times vs. the M2 and validated the BM4 design cycles faster..and also against the Beretta 1301 which utilizes a long-stroke design piston system that involves more parts and results in slower cycling vs the M4 system. Totally concur regarding technology advancements and users embracing change vs. never changing. I am a long time owner of a variety of 1911’s, I always stuck my nose in the air & dismissed any mention of the newer 2011’s. Then about two years ago I handled & thoroughly shot an Atlas Athena double stack, incomparable trigger, highest quality & performing semi auto pistol shooter I’ve ever experienced..so I custom configured & ordered and now my Athena is my every day CCW cocked & locked complete with RDS(also used to be frowned upon!) Also agree regarding Youtube videos, etc. Flannel Daddy makes a video advocating how great a product is and then the price doubles..or he shits on a particular LPVO and that makes gospel with internet trollers without real user experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) On 3/7/2023 at 8:24 PM, Sukhoi_fan said: M4 = 7.8 lbs M2 = 6.7 lbs 7.8 lbs isn't 'light'. My opinion comes from putting my M4 with mount/light, and an M2 with the same barrel length, same mount/light on a scale. The M4 was a whole lot closer to 2lbs heavier than 1lb heavier. Yes they M4 comes in several models. But not counting the SBS (or fixed choke, removable choke, silly choke ), from the trigger forward they're exactly the same. I have ever so briefly toyed with knocking the sight off the M4 and having a vent rib added, but that would be stupid money for a gun I'm not in love with. And you can't get into a pissing contest with me, because I don't really care. Certainly nothing to win or lose, no minds to be changed, no different outcome even if they did. Edited March 9, 2023 by cas 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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