922r...kiss

[Unobtanium]

Just what it says. I am tired of reading:

 

"M4's with a full-length mag and a PG stock are illegal."

 

"no they aren't as long as the tube is US made."

 

"yes they are."

 

Which is it guys? Can you, or can you not install a 7 round tube on an M4 with a pistol grip stock? Does it have to be a U.S. made tube?

 

The way I understand it is that it is legal as long as..."The weapon is not assymbled from imported parts". Since the tube is US and not imported...legal due to wording.

 

Or...it has been changed in configuration and still has more than 10 imported parts so...NOT legal.

 

However, I am sure this has been put to bed long before now, I just cannot find that concrete answer. Please KISS and thanks!

[Duggan]

It's not legal.

 

But it doesn't matter.

[Unobtanium]

It's not legal.

 

But it doesn't matter.

 

So...should I tell my friend that his M4 needs to be modified back to stock? He is kindof concerned...

[Duggan]

Find me a single case of anyone being prosecuted, ever, for a 922r violation by itself.

 

The only case I've ever found that was semi confirmed was one of a gun store owner who was manufacturing machine gun parts, and had some AKs or something being converted that didn't pass 922r. They threw the book at him, including the 922r violations, which may or may not have been dropped in the deal they inevitably made.

 

Not much else to say. Individuals are not prosecuted for 922r violations out of the blue. But "they" want you to be scared.

 

It's your choice.

[Unobtanium]

Find me a single case of anyone being prosecuted, ever, for a 922r violation by itself.

 

The only case I've ever found that was semi confirmed was one of a gun store owner who was manufacturing machine gun parts, and had some AKs or something being converted that didn't pass 922r. They threw the book at him, including the 922r violations, which may or may not have been dropped in the deal they inevitably made.

 

Not much else to say. Individuals are not prosecuted for 922r violations out of the blue. But "they" want you to be scared.

 

It's your choice.

 

I'm not scared, my friend is worried

 

What if he shot someone during a B&E (justified use of deadly force) and they found he was in violation of 922r? Has a 922r non-compliant weapon ever been used like such and caused grief for it's owner?

[Duggan]

I'm not sure.

 

I doubt the law enforcement agencies would do anything about it, what you'd have to maybe worry about is the family of the perpetrator somehow finding out and suing you over it ...

 

I dunno. I'm not in law school yet.

[Unobtanium]

Hrmmm...would installing a magazine limiter be a way to get around 922r when one felt like it?

[Duggan]

From 922r:

 

"(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the

action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine."

 

Basically, yes. Worst case scenario, your battle in court would be that a plug counted as a "fixed" capacity. Since it works for hunting stuff, I don't know why it wouldn't work here.

 

But this is just another reason I left my mag tube unloctited ... I'm not at all paranoid about the ATF deciding to go after a 22 year old white kid from a good middle class family with a squeaky clean record (me), but in the event that I should need to make my gun 100% legal, it can be done in a very short amount of time.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

 

that is written for saigas, but most of it is relevant information.

 

Lemme just say, if you google "922r", there are literally tens of thousands of people asking the same question, getting vague answers, doing lots of stuff to get in compliance with 922r to varying degrees.

 

Now google "922r conviction", "922r felony", "922r arrest", or any variation you want. See how much information you find.

 

edit: I think I may make an m4 FAQ thread if I have time.

[Leecz]

Find me a single case of anyone being prosecuted, ever, for a 922r violation by itself.

 

It's your choice.

 

I have to agree here. It is illegal, and you theoretically could get in trouble with it, but who is going to find out and actually go through with prosecution?

[TMAC]

I am not into the whole tactical weapons scene, but from an outside perspective what do you think your chances are of actually getting caught and procescuted with an out of compliance weapon really are? Really?

 

I know a guy who does a lot of semi and full auto competitions throughout the country and from what I hear there are tons of so called illegal contraban floating around. Not that its right or wrong but in reality what are the odds, and who is going to know you have it.

[Novaking]

Hrmmm...would installing a magazine limiter be a way to get around 922r when one felt like it?

 

Why would you plug a extended mag.? Why would you(your friend) want more (without plug) and use less (plug) when you would need it. I have a hard time thinking anyway if you can't get them with the 4+1 it came with your not going to get them with the next 5 you added.

 

Novaking

[Unobtanium]

Why would you plug a extended mag.? Why would you(your friend) want more (without plug) and use less (plug) when you would need it. I have a hard time thinking anyway if you can't get them with the 4+1 it came with your not going to get them with the next 5 you added.

 

Novaking

 

Scenario:

 

Guy busts into my friends place and gets shot rightfully so. Friend quickly installs mag plug as insurance against lawsuite/whatnot based on 922r.

 

Problem solved (or is it, was the ? )

 

Of I guess my friend could quickly change mag tubes or something.

[Duggan]

It's all wording and interpretation ... does "capable of accepting" mean that a plug is irrelevant since it is capable without it, or is the plug your saving grace by making it incapable in current form of accepting ... I can't even remember if that's the term in the law, but it's pretty simple: there is no substitute for a good lawyer.

[ASO544]

I know you can make a limiter but is there a place to buy a factory one.....never seen one for sale for a benelli.

[marc63]

FNH USA has pretty much set the bar. They import their FNH w/ 4 rd tubes, then trash them in favor of 6 and 8 rd tubes prior to sale. They are semi-auto w/ pg stocks, so they MAY NOT have FL tubes for importation under 922R. Once here they may be upgraded.

[kiMbErcOLtBeneLLi]

Just what it says. I am tired of reading:

 

"M4's with a full-length mag and a PG stock are illegal."

 

"no they aren't as long as the tube is US made."

 

"yes they are."

 

Which is it guys? Can you, or can you not install a 7 round tube on an M4 with a pistol grip stock? Does it have to be a U.S. made tube?

 

The way I understand it is that it is legal as long as..."The weapon is not assymbled from imported parts". Since the tube is US and not imported...legal due to wording.

 

Or...it has been changed in configuration and still has more than 10 imported parts so...NOT legal.

 

However, I am sure this has been put to bed long before now, I just cannot find that concrete answer. Please KISS and thanks!

It is NOT illegal (in Arizona anyway) to do any of those things to a benelli unless you shorten up the barrel without going through ATF. It is illegal to IMPORT any of those items into the U.S.

[Monkey]

From 922r:

 

"(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the

action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine."

 

Basically, yes. Worst case scenario, your battle in court would be that a plug counted as a "fixed" capacity. Since it works for hunting stuff, I don't know why it wouldn't work here.

 

But this is just another reason I left my mag tube unloctited ... I'm not at all paranoid about the ATF deciding to go after a 22 year old white kid from a good middle class family with a squeaky clean record (me), but in the event that I should need to make my gun 100% legal, it can be done in a very short amount of time.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

 

that is written for saigas, but most of it is relevant information.

 

Lemme just say, if you google "922r", there are literally tens of thousands of people asking the same question, getting vague answers, doing lots of stuff to get in compliance with 922r to varying degrees.

 

Now google "922r conviction", "922r felony", "922r arrest", or any variation you want. See how much information you find.

 

edit: I think I may make an m4 FAQ thread if I have time.

 

That's not 922r you're quoting. You've posted the definition of a shotgun-based Assault Weapon from the defunct AWB.

 

922r its entirety reads as follows:

 

® It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

 

Notice it does not define what an imported firearm is. Notice also that it prohibits the actual modification, not the possession of such a weapon. The resultant weapon is contraband, but the weapon is not a violation of 922r itself.

[Guest cleefurd]

The best question in reference to this issue, centers around the opening line;

 

"® It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun"

 

People were buying flat receivers, parts kits, etc, and developing firearms that could not be imported whole. Domestic owners HAVE the legally imported firearm, hence without "assembling from imported parts" they are careful (in most cases) to render the equivalent of domestic alternatives, with domestic parts, a legally owned shotgun. Again of notable repute, FNH imports a neutered semi-auto shotgun w/ a PG stock, and chunks the 4 rd tube in favor of the 6 or 8 rd tube, installed stateside for distribution to the general public. Not a shotgun assembled from imported parts, rather a legally imported shotgun, upgraded with parts of ? origin. Still above board and heralded as appropriate.