remarkable

Wolf makes a decrease spring as well. The gun will function very well with 7/8 as long as the weather is warm. Cold weather increases friction in the recoil and bolt system. I know it's time to change a spring when shooting in colder weather and then challenge you gun with overhead shots. This will challenge the bolt assembly when faced with the force of gravity. Don't forget to check you shells making sure they fall into the chamber unrestricted with the barrel off. Benelli bores the chamber slightly tighter to utilize the force of inertia recoil.

Hey M1014, have not hit the nursing home yet, still under 50 and have worked on more than 500 Benelli. Please contact me at [email protected] and I would be glad to provide insight to any Benelli owner. M1014 has great posts as well along with one other member, can not recall the name. I'm sure M1014 would be glad to share his knowledge as well. I use Wolf springs as well. I had 2 consecutive serial numbers of M1's fail after one year. Please look at my posts for shell issues in the chamber as well. Thanks M1014 for inspiring me to post on the great Benelli forum.

Let me approach this topic from three different angles: 1. As A hunter 2. As a Marketing Manager 3. As a Supply Chain Manager Your question Vinci vs SBE II: Obviously the Vinci II can shoot 3 1/2" shells, personally I don't not shoot 3.5's, however many folks do (don't understand why) so the SBE II and Vinci II appeals to a wider market segment when resale becomes a issue. Benelli has never put out a bad (shotgun) product, so I would not be concerned with operating quality and jamming issue's although I have seen many of these complaints from both gun owners on this forum. Most of these are operator and maintenance shortcomings. I personally have all of the Benelli offerings and really think its a personal choice. As far as marketing - Benelli has POSITIONED another hunting autoloader in a already crowded segment. The segement which they invented and are being challenged by the competition. A unique problem Benelli has is PRICE. All the Benelli offerings are premium priced with price points relatively close in the the premium autoloader market. Sadly, the M1 which could be the best gun of the three has price repositioned or repositioned as a entry level premium autoloader to attract a market segment based on price in the Premium autoloader segment. Benelli demographics - college educated, Income 100K plus, multiple gun owner, cuacasian male, 40 plus. Clearly, Benelli has positioned the Vince II the with a premium price that serves as a signal of quality. Benelli MUST continually challenge technology which is a precondition in the marketplace for premium price products. As a Supply Chain Manager Benelli needs to drive cost from the supply chain - it appears this is a major factor in the production of the Vinci and the market trend shift in the acceptance of a non traditional looking gun. If Benelli can drive the market to the Vinci lineage, predictability and forecasting could be more streamline which drives costs from systems. Don't get this confused with quality - these are really two different topics. Think about the reduction of parts, the refined manufacturing process that take three main parts of the gun could be completed and then send to a production line for final assembly. If Benelli can drive the entire premium gun market to the Vinci platform just imagine what options could be produced and the cost savings in single platform reduction and costs controlls. Secondly the vinci platform allows aftermarketer to produce modular parts for this gun which would drive cost down to the gun owner. Finally lets look at the evolution of the recoil spring assembly - The orginal Montefeltro did not even have a recoil tube nut to remove the recoil spring. This was added to Super 90's and latter the M1's. The m2's and SBE II's they received the easy removal butt pad a a corrosion resistant recoil spring tube and spring.... your seeing it... now the Vinci has the recoil spring as part of the operating bolt assembly. My first though was how is that little spring going to replace the original recoil spring of the after-mentioned models. The smaller the spring the easier it is to maintain tolerance that Benelli is looking for and to maintain these spec's over time. These are quality and reliability attributes that is forged in the Benelli brand. Quality perceptions are made by many factors, ease of maintenance has evolved which allowed Benelli to POSITION products in the premium autoloader segment that fits their target market. All three Benelli's the M2, SBE II, and Vinci's are all great guns. Benelli will need to continue to drive technology into their offerings to maintain product position which demands quality perceptions and premium prices.

Spring replacement is sometimes very obvious yet sometimes very subtle. Quite often years of service do not effect recoil spring replacement tolerances. My original imported Montefeltro lasted more that 10 years before I even accessed the recoil tube assembly. The Recoil Tube assembly on the original Montefeltro did not even have a recoil tube fitted nut to remove the screw from the back of the recoil spring tube. I have also replaced M1 springs after 1 year, on two in line serial number guns. Most of the end of year Benelli I work on I just replace the recoil spring, they are very inexpensive and Benelli functionality is very important to the Benelli brand which is aligns directly with my reputation. On my personal Benelli's I know to replace spring when I shoot directly overhead on cold days and the bolt does not lock. This is done with a Benelli that has been refreshed with proper lube on the rails. Your inertia system will be challenged not only by the cold weather but also the force of gravity that the bolt assembly will face as it travels against the force of gravity while cycling forward just before it ejects the spent shell.

Perhaps Sure Cycle would sell you just the spring from the Sure Cycle Kit. I have use the Sure Cycle Magazine Spring kit and found this kit to be a improvement over the factory parts that they are replacing.

You can purchase either @ Brownell. I would be interested to hear why you don't like the Wolff spring. The Wolff spring will not cycle 7/8oz low brass shells, aside from that they have outperformed factory spring. I have replaced factory spring in M1's with consecutive serial numbers after 1 year. The original spring that was used in the Montefeltro performed very well, this was prior to the intro of the SBE.

Search Cycling Issues, pay close attention to posts by Mudhen, Tucker, AMG, and remarkable.

I have wrote some very comprehensive articles about cycling issues that could be searched on this sight. These insights are great cause and effect analysis which revolve around maint, springs, shells. I have replaced several spring on M1's after 1 year. If you get stuck send me a e-mail @ [email protected]

Search cycling issues; pay close attention to information written by; Mudhen, Tucker, AMD65, and remarkable. All four know Benelli cause & effect extremely well. If you get stuck e-mail me @ [email protected] This is is very manageable & relared to springs and maintenance.

Below is a exert from a MBA level marketing paper for Benelli. For decades, auto loading shotguns used one of four operating systems. Long-recoil operated guns were the first beginning with Browning's 1903 invention. Short-recoil guns appeared in the 1950s, while short and long-stroke piston gas operation became popular in the 60s. All three systems have been successful with the millions of guns using them. All have a common problem; they involve the barrel in the mechanical operation of the gun. What if the barrel could be cut out of the operating picture and allowed to function only as the barrel? That's exactly what Benelli operating system does. It uses inertia recoil operation, a system that is deceptively simple, which requires very few operating parts. The Benelli Inertia System is high- tech simplicity. It is the foundation of all Benelli auto loading shotguns. It is the heart and soul of its rugged reputation, and ease of maintenance. Dependability has set Benelli apart from the competition, the inertia system delivers uncompromising durability, simplicity, and the ruggedness that has defined perception and Benelli's reputation.

gunsprings.com Read your response to your other post. Your issue are extremely minor and are really maintenance related.

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9475 Carlo: Your issues are minor - here is a link to address your Recoil Spring & Lubrication issues. Let me know if you need anything [email protected]

Brownells does have this, you will need to get the cross reference part number. I just received one in November. If you can't find one e-mail me I have a extra that I can sell you. [email protected]

The Carrier Latch serves to provide several points of functionality. With your issue we are talking about how the Carrier Latch hold shells in the magazine and releasing of the shell as it cycles thru the entire sequence. Brownells has this part. The original part that is in your M1 is discontinued. You will get a Carrier Latch from a M2 when ordering from Brownell. Might as well replace the little Carrier Latch Spring while your in there, it's very inexpensive and will need to be removed when replacing your carrier latch anyway. Selecting a drift punch that is large enough to drive the pin from the bottom to the top. Selecting to small of punch will cause the pin to expand. When replacing your Carrier Latch, Spring and pin you will want to start the pin from the bottom and drive the pin to the set location paying close attention to the upper range where you will not interfere with the breach bolt travel. When removing your old carrier latch take not of how far the carrier latch pin is set into the pin's access point. Additional the Carrier Latch is somewhat hard to set while holding the new latch in place and driving the pin thru the latch to the set location - another way to say it is you may need two people during this reassembly. If you need further assistance contact me @ [email protected]

Based on a very week description. Your Carrier Latch is worn and needs to be replace. Simple, cheap - might as well replace the Carrier Latch Spring as well. This part has been updated on the M2. When ordering a new part you will get the carrier latch from a M2. Solid information such as shell selection, how old the gun is, how many shells has the gun cycled etc.. would enhance the presentation. I have replaced several of these on a M1. The M1 may have been the finest gun Benelli has made. SRM makes a nice magazine kit for this gun which updates the spring, follower, and plug. Nice update from factory parts.

Here is a simple Benelli great 3 step "Break In Guide" 1. Purchase the finest Autoloading shotgun on the market. 2. Insert shotgun shells 3. Fire in a safe direction Enjoy your Benelli

Airdale, I owned a M1 Field as well. You are correct the gun is awesome and COULD be the best Benelli ever made! Your analysis of the problem leaves alot on the table - when you look at the primer from the shell that you are getting the misfire, is the firing pin dimple as deep as the shells that did fire! I have replaced the hammer SPRING on several M1's that lacked the force to ignite the primer. If this is true simply replace the hammer spring with a Wolff 25% increase hammer spring. This will put noticeably deeper dimples into your primer for better lockup and ignition. Well stated in previous posts your breach bolt will need to be "locked" before firing. Maybe you are fumbling with the breech bolt handle during idle time which would then cause a misfire as well. You truely need more cause & effect before "internet gun smiths" can help you.

Let me approach this topic from three different angles: 1. As A hunter 2. As a Marketing Manager 3. As a Supply Chain Manager Your question Vinci vs SBE II: Obviously the Vinci can not shoot 3 1/2" shells, personally I don't not shoot 3.5's, however many folks do (don't understand why) so the SBE appeals to a wider market segment when resale becomes a issue. Benelli has never put out a bad (shotgun) product, so I would not be concerned with operating quality and jamming issue's although I have seen many of these complaints from both gun owners on this forum. Most of these are operator and maintenance shortcomings. I personally have all of the Benelli offerings and really think its a personal choice. As far as marketing Benelli has POSITIONED another hunting autoloader in a already crowded segment, a segement which they invented and are being challenged by the competition. A unique problem Benelli has is PRICE. All the Benelli offerings are premium priced with price points relatively close in the the premium autoloader market. Sadly, the M1 which could be the best gun of the three has price repositioned or repositioned as a entry level premium autoloader to attract a market segment based on price in the Premium autoloader segment. Benelli demographics - college educated, Income 100K plus, multiple gun owner, cuacasian male, 40 plus. Clearly, Benelli has positioned the Vince the with a premium price that serves as a signal of quality. As a Supply Chain Manager Benelli needs to drive cost from the supply chain - it appears this is a major factor in the production of the Vinci and the market trend shift in the acceptance of a non traditional looking gun. If Benelli can drive the market to the Vinci lineage predictability and forecasting could be more streamline which drives costs from systems. Don'y get this confused with quality - these are really two different topics. Think about the reduction of parts, the refined manufacturing process that take three main parts of the gun could be completed and then send to a production line for final assembly. If Benelli can drive the entire premium gun market to the Vinci platform just imagine what options could be produced and the cost savings in single platform reduction and costs controlls. Secondly the vinci platform allows aftermarketer to produce modular parts for this gun which would drive cost down to the gun owner. Finally lets look at the evolution of the recoil spring assembly - The orginal Montefeltro did not even have a recoil tube nut to remove the recoil spring. This was added to Super 90's and latter the M1's. The m2's and SBE II's they received the easy removal butt pad a a corrosion resistant recoil spring tube and spring.... your seeing it... now the Vinci has the recoil spring as part of the operating bolt assembly. My first though was how is that little spring going to replace the original recoil spring of the after-mentioned models. The smaller the spring the easier it is to except the tolerance you are looking for and to maintain these spec's over time. Quality perceptions are made by many factors, ease of maintenance has evolved which allowed Benelli to POSITION products in the premium autoloader segment that fits their target market. All three Benelli's the M2, SBE II, and Vinci's are all great guns. Benelli needs to continue to drive technology into their offerings to maintain product position which demands quality perceptions and premium prices.

1. The jammed round only occurs on the 3rd round. Unlike what I had been told by someone else on another board, the carrier latch is in a different position when a round is still in the magazine. When the magazine is empty (as with my jam), the carrier latch has more pressure in the rear section (toward the butt of the gun). When a round is still in the magazine, the pressure is equal because the carrier latch is holding a shell in the tube. JED, I thought I told you this information before. Secondly, your gun is jamming because the bolt remains open if no shell is in the magazine. The Carrier Latch effectively handles this task. I also gave you very detailed instructions how to replace the Carrier Latch. I am really wondering if you put the RECIEVER in a vise when removing your recoil spring tube and effectivle took the receiver out of tolerance. I have worked on over 500 SBE 1's 2's M1's, M2's, Montefeltros and have never experienced the problems you are encountering. AGM 65 has given you some great information - his insights are far beyond the of most Benelli posts on this sight. I think you neeed to send your gun back to Benelli and have a tolerance test on your receiver and bolt assembly.

Something is keeping your ELEVATOR from raising when there is no shell in the magazine. Install your new Carrier Latch when it arrives. If the Carrier latch does not help it would be wise to use another trigger group in your gun. You could also send your trigger group to Benelli for a inspection with a explaination of your findings. These thing are hard to diagnose over the Internet when I can't see the gun. I have to give you credit for being persistent.

Tucker is correct: You will need to lightly lube the bolt rails. Synthetic oil will reduce congeal at low temps. Your recoil spring assembly will need to be very clean and properly lubed as well when encountering cold weather. When cleaning your receiver group I like to use gun scrub to blow out all of the residue prior to lubing. When encounter cold weather these steps are critical. You mentioned you are shooting BB's. These shells are very prone to having a pellet not lay properly in the hull. This will cause shells to enter the chamber that do not insert into your benelli's tightly bored chamber properly. Here is a method to check your shells: remove you barrel from you gun, hold the barrel chamber up. Drop a shell into the chamber, if your shells do not drop all the way in or fall all the way our you are changing the dynamics of the inertia recoil system. This becomes critical when encounter cold weather when the enertia systems tends to slow down.

Jed, Well, just got back from the field...bad news: the new spring and follower did not work. Just to recap, I ordered the spring from gunsprings.com (25% more power). The spring is about a foot longer than the factory spring. It ejected the shells very good. The follower is a SS from Brownells (cost over $20). So, it appears I have another problem. I took a couple photos of the jam and I'll post here if I can figure out how to do it. The carrier latch and spring are on the way, but I'm not sure that's that problem either unless the carrier was bad from the factory because it's been doing this since new. So, what do I have left? The photo you show. Is this the photo of the final shell being kicked out of the magazine tube? The spring should be slamming the shell to the back of the elevator. You did not mention if during your experiment today that the final shell seems to be the issue still. Here is a couple suggestions: *Install your Carrier Latch when you get it. * Have someone else shoot this gun * Examine your trigger group and look for bends in the elevator or is something binding the elevator spring. (The Stoegger P350 elevator bends quite easily) * Do you know anyone else with a M2. If you do ask to use thier trigger group in your gun * Did you go thru your shells and make sure every shell you install in the magazine falls in and out of the chamber freely * It sound like your elevator is nor raising for whatever reason on your final shot. This does not make sense the elevator performs well during your other shots. You may want to take the plug out and run a sequence of four shells.

Here is a wealth of information that you could print and file in your SBE Owners Manual: As usual Mudhen has great insights of these fine Benelli offering as well: Benelli M1, SBE, and Montefeltro Recoil Spring & Maintained tips. My experience with Benelli Autoloaders is quite extensive. I purchased one of the original Montefeltro’s imported by H&K and have worked on and performed year end maintenance on over 200 guns models listed above and the Nova. I’m sure everyone knows how to “field strip” your gun, I will not cover this however I will add what may be of value from my experience. What most Benelli owners do not know about the gun they own is, the vital component listed as the recoil spring and the recoil spring tube. This will be the focus of this writing because it is not covered in the Benelli owner’s manual. With the knowledge and understanding of this maintenance and process, the problems experienced in cycling issues could be completely eliminated. It is vital that your recoil spring maintenance be performed on a yearly basis, the exceptions would be low usage or submerged gun. Removing the Butt Plate requires a thin shaft Philips screwdriver with a number #2 head. Apply oil to the Butt Plate screw holes before inserting the screw driver. This will minimize the damage to the rubber. Remove Butt Plate. Insert a 13mm deep socket in the back of the stock and remove the stock retaining nut, this nut will need to be torque to 22 lbs upon assembly. The stock assembly and drop change shim will come off. To remove the recoil spring, the stock retaining nut SCREW will need to be removed from the recoil spring tube. This will require a 17mm closed end wrench. Older Benelli’s will not have the nut attached to the stock retaining screw; this will make the process more difficult. To remove the stock retaining nut screw, my experience has been in most circumstances heat will be required to address the locktite which has been applied to the screw from the factory. Place the receiver assembly in a vise just tight enough to hold the receiver be careful not to crush receiver. Protect the receiver to eliminate damage. Heat the stock retaining nut screw near the recoil spring tube with a Bic type lighter for up to one minute. This is all I ever needed to slacken the locktite. Then place your closed end wrench on the nut and loosen. Care must be taken when removing the screw the assembly is under pressure of the recoil spring. The recoil spring ready to be removed and the recoil spring plunger. Upon assembly do not use locktite; this processed should be performed annually anyway. Concluding, the recoil tube should be cleaned with gun scrub and a 20 gauge wire brush inserted through the tube. The recoil spring should be cleaned as well. My experience with the factory recoil spring has been less than desired. I have replaced factory springs after one year on M1’s model number 11045 serial numbers M400240 and M400239. The original Montefeltro springs seemed better, lasting 10 years. I replace the recoil spring with Wolff 25% extra power spring. Keep in mind these are hunting guns and do not shoot low base 7/8 0z shells. Wolff 25% reduced power spring works well for light loads. You will know when your spring needs to be replaced when the bolt assembly does not rotate to the closed position after shooting the first shell, when your gun is properly maintained. This failure increases when shooting in cold weather and shooting directly overhead, when the bolt faces the force of gravity. Assembly of the recoil spring requires minimal usage of synthetic spray lube, just enough to lubricate and protect metal. Excessive oil will collect more powder residue. Synthetic will minimize congeal at low temps. When reassembling the gun it would be helpful to install your trigger assembly, this will make the alignment of the stock easier. The bolt assembly should be kept clean. I use a few drops of Break Free inside of the receiver assembly on the bolt rails, this should be all the lubricant you will need after cleaning the assembly with gun scrub. A “dry” clean magazine assembly, dry meaning no lubricant, will create the same symptom of the bolt assembly not rotating closed in cold weather as well. This cost me a double on Canada Geese this year because I was to lazy to field strip my Benelli and lube it properly when encountering cold weather. The field striping and lubricating noted above can be performed in a few minutes after a few repetitions. SBE II & M2 The SBE II & M2 require a similar process to the above with a few differences. The buttpad is quick-detachable. The drop change shim will need to be carefully inspected when removed. Note the index of the top of the shim so installation is exact. The 13 mm socket will need to be of very deep profile to remove the stock retaining nut. The retaining nut screw will need to be removed from the recoil spring tube. This will not require heat, noted in the removal of this part on SBE I & M1. The new recoil spring, guide and tube are corrosion resistant. It is not stainless steel like the Sure Cycle aftermarket system. Cleaning the new models just like the old models. The Wolff springs are not available for the new gun for the general public. Shells & Findings The Benelli Autolaoding gun uses a two piece bolt and spring to accomplish the energy transfer necessary to initiate the bolt cycle and perform all necessary autoloading functions, including recocking, extracting, ejection, and reloading. Additionally the Benelli chamber is bored very tight. Many shells today (no brands any better) simply do not hold tolerance to insert properly in Benelli guns. Remove your barrel from your gun and drop a shell into the chamber. Every shell should fall into the chamber with no resistance. Keep in mind while cleaning you barrel, extra attention will need to be given to the chamber area. A 12 or 10 Gauge wire brush should be used in the firsts 4” of the chamber. You will be surprised how a clean chamber will help with “shell issues”. If your shells do not fall into the chamber with any resistance you will change the dynamic of the above said functionality of inertia. You do not have to throw these shells away. Lightly polish the plastic or brass until resistance is eliminated. The larger the diameter of the shot the more possibility the shot will not lay the hull properly which will the cause a dimple on the outside of the shell. I have found the shell issue increasing in recent years. In my personal hunting guns I have a Wolff hammer springs installed. These work great for a deeper hammer/dimple on primers of shot shells. The downside would be the increase resistance of recocking the hammer which again changes dynamics of the inertia system. Benelli has made changes to guns which make it much easier to maintain. Take advantage the new functionality. One of the first Montefeltro’s imported to the USA by H&K had no information about the recoil spring or recoil tube. A retaining nut screw was not even installed on the recoil tube. Finally, when encounter cold weather take extra time to clean and lube your Benelli properly. Shooting directly overhead will test your Benelli because the energy produced for inertia now is fighting against the forces of gravity, more resistance. I hope this information will help you with your Benelli. Following the above will keep you from the Benelli problems Chad Belding experience in 24-7 “Running Traffic”

Hi Zach: Maybe you could give us some vital information that would help you sell the gun: I may be interested if it is what I am looking for. How about barrel length? Camo? What Camo Pattern? When it was registered? This information is important when you are asking a premium price for your gun. Where are you located?

Jed, That's great. Of course I can help you with your Carrier Latch. I'm sure the part you ordered from Brownell is the exact part number that your M2 came with. This part is a redesign since the M1. You mentioned you ordered a follower as well. The part was changed on the M2, i'm not so sure for the better. If you look at the Sure Cycle MAGAZINE kit, they have a Magazine Upgrade System for most Benelli 12 gauge shotguns. Includes a stainless steel magazine spring, red anodized aluminum follower and 3-shot plug. This kit provide a Stainless Spring a Anodized follower and a anodized plug. The anodized parts are very precise and are very well made. I personally have these in my hunting guns primarily because I was going to purchase a new spring anyway and I really like the anodized plug. When replacing the carrier latch you will need a fine drift punch to drive the carrier latch pin from the bottom through the top. When installing the new Latch and pin if you purchase one you will need to start the latch pin from the bottom driving the pin into position. This may require some a helper to hold the latch into position. Driving the pin to far into the receiver which will interfere with the bolt assembly movement. Please let me know if you need some additional guidance. [email protected]