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splashtx556ftw

home invasion, fact vs fiction

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Meh.

 

I have multiple friends in the marines and a few in the army who I've shot with, and I've never been impressed by their shooting prowess or knowledge of guns/tactics in general. Maybe my friends are just morons, I don't know.

 

Since you mentioned Todd Jarrett ...

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363

 

"the biggest problem that I see today about being in military and law enforcement and dealing with firearms is they are about 20 years behind the curve when it comes to teaching new techniques"

 

Don't get me started on cops I know/have met who are an absolute JOKE at shooting.

 

Well, the Marine I mentioned qualified with a score of 97, 98, & 98 out of 100 at the academy. I agree that many cops are poor shots, and this is why some jurisdictions are now utilizing places like Blackwater where Todd Jarrett teaches firearms techniques.

 

Cops and military personel that cannot shoot are simply a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I can't understand people go into the military or LE and do not take care to hone their shooting skills. It just does not make sense to me.

 

Duggan, I could not agree with you more that there are many cops and military men/women who are a complete joke when it comes to firearms skills. Sad, really sad.

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Cops and military personel that cannot shoot are simply a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I can't understand people go into the military or LE and do not take care to hone their shooting skills. It just does not make sense to me.

 

Duggan, I could not agree with you more that there are many cops and military men/women who are a complete joke when it comes to firearms skills. Sad, really sad.

 

I agree with that as well.

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I cant speak for the military issue, but with various police being somewhat lousy shots and frankly, lacking knowledge about their firearms, I can only guess that it is due to the fact that they may perceive their "authority" as enough. Maybe some of them fail to actually believe they will ever have to use their firearm against another human being. I have heard of many cases where various police officers have taken such little care of their life-saving firearm(s) that these weapons were virtually rendered un-fireable. I agree, when it comes to the military and particularly the police, they should do what is necessary to ensure that they are FAR more capable with weapons than the general public and in particular, hostiles or criminals.

Edited by shotgunNoob

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timb99,

This is the key point upon which we differ.

The way I see it, anyone who breaks into my home has calculated a certain level of risk and has decided to take that risk.

If he's banking on me saying, "Freeze!... while I check the legalities regarding shooting your sorry azz.", then he's made a grave error that will put him in the grave.

 

I'm not interested in whether he's armed or not.

I'm not interested in whether he's there to rob me, rape somebody, kill somebody, or borrow a cup of sugar.

If he's uninvited, he's in deeper and headed for deeper.

 

If his "human life" is worth the risk to him, it certainly means nothing to me.

 

 

that exact thing happened to a man in utah. he heard a noise down stairs and went to hunt down his intruder.saw the man coming down the hall with a flashlight, and cut him down with a 12ga . come to find out it was a cop. apparently some one saw an intruder a called police, when they got there the intruder fled out the back door. police was at fault for not calling out when he entered. none the less that man is now doing 30years for capital murder. so go ahead and blast away. i repeat when you rack a shotgun in a dark room with your intruder in the light, he is N O T , i repeat NOT going to come hunt you down.and hes not likly to return to your nieghborhood at all.

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p.s. My view of protecting my family is keeping them out of harms way. If thats means hiding and waiting for the bad guys to leave. I've done my job. If that means pulling the trigger. Done job to.

 

 

a m e n ............

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Ughh..I am so tired of hearing about this "racking the shotgun" business. Based on many reports, this "racking" sound is very well known and certainly not something ANYBODY wants to hear in the middle of the night. It indicates that a SERIOUSLY deadly weapon may be in the process of being armed. But, some dude on crack may not hear it nor give a crap if he does. Who knows. This whole "racking" stuff is as subjective as the use of lasers on home defense weapons. Now, I dont propose anybody walk around the house racking their shotty or brandishing their cool laser sighting devices. But, both have been proven to be effective at intimidation. However, personally speaking, if and when I "rack" my shotgun, I will be doing so from behind some sort of covered position, seeing as how I would probably use my shotgun as a barricade-type weapon. So what if the "perp" hears me. I dont plan on going hunting, but rather will stay put and let he or she come to me. Meanwhile, my wife will be dialing 911. I used to consider my shotgun as the "main home defense weapon". However, I now use a Springfield XD 45 for that role. This is because a 12g shotgun says "Im out to destroy you", whereas the 45 says "If I hit you right, you will be stopped". Besides, lets face it, handguns allow for greater mobility. Not to mention, handguns provide better protection against disarm attempts vs shotguns, unless you are "wearing" the shotgun via a sling.

 

 

the typical crack head cant afford a gun, if he could , he would be robbing 7-11 instead of breaking in your home.

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Well, the Marine I mentioned qualified with a score of 97, 98, & 98 out of 100 at the academy. I agree that many cops are poor shots, and this is why some jurisdictions are now utilizing places like Blackwater where Todd Jarrett teaches firearms techniques.

 

Cops and military personel that cannot shoot are simply a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I can't understand people go into the military or LE and do not take care to hone their shooting skills. It just does not make sense to me.

 

Duggan, I could not agree with you more that there are many cops and military men/women who are a complete joke when it comes to firearms skills. Sad, really sad.

 

 

you simply cannot be trained enough when your talking about a fire fight. the fear factor comes into play.training on a range you can score 100 out of 100. but when your target is shooting back it is a whole different story.

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He might not afford a gun, but might have stole one yesterday. On a note about cops/ military being bad shots, control of your emotions has alot to do with accuracy. A man could be a expert at the range and still be worthless in a emergency.

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On a note about cops/ military being bad shots, control of your emotions has alot to do with accuracy. A man could be a expert at the range and still be worthless in a emergency.

 

I agree. They don't train under pressure. really no one can train under that kind of pressure.

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you simply cannot be trained enough when your talking about a fire fight. the fear factor comes into play.training on a range you can score 100 out of 100. but when your target is shooting back it is a whole different story.

 

True, but it is also easy to criticise when you do not know the whole story. The targets are not static, they turn and you have a short amount of time to fire before they turn out of view again, much of the shooting is quick reactions, not aimed shooting. You also shoot from behind cover, you are not standing out in the open half the time. Shooting while leaning to the left or right is not quite as easy.

 

The Marine I mentioned (trust me this guy has seen plenty of combat) also ran sims with me during part of the training. Neither of took one shot during any of the sims. As a side note, I also scored 95, 97, and 97 on the range.

 

Ironically, the people who shot best were all the people who either have a good amount of firearms experience, or actual combat experience. The two military personel that shot poorly were people who were not combat personel (an engineer, and a medic, not a field medic either).

 

Were there people who shot barely well enough to pass? Unfortunately, yes. Just like the physical training test. There were a number of us that scored 90% or higher, but there were also many who barely passed.

 

If anyone wants to make a difference in the quality of LEO on your streets, petition your local FOP, politicians, etc... to raise the standards at the academy your LEO receive their training. I know that the instructors at my academy were already pushing the raise the standards.

Edited by M4CQB

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that exact thing happened to a man in utah. he heard a noise down stairs and went to hunt down his intruder.saw the man coming down the hall with a flashlight, and cut him down with a 12ga . come to find out it was a cop. apparently some one saw an intruder a called police, when they got there the intruder fled out the back door. police was at fault for not calling out when he entered. none the less that man is now doing 30years for capital murder. so go ahead and blast away. i repeat when you rack a shotgun in a dark room with your intruder in the light, he is N O T , i repeat NOT going to come hunt you down.and hes not likly to return to your nieghborhood at all.

 

Most of the time that is true, but if you read through some of the accounts of actual home invasions, there are some bold/stupid people, and they are not always alone.

 

I would consider racking my shotgun too, but not until I have made a positive ID, and made a good assessment of the situation.

 

I have a dim night light halfway down a long hall that is shaded to only luminate in the opposite direction. I can see whoever is coming, what they are carrying, long before they will ever know that I am there. If they are unarmed? Sure, I will rack the shotgun, but if they clearly have a gun and they are wearing a skimask, I will unload without warning.

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How does one "bust" into a home and then be stealthy while extinguishing light sources?

 

After the lights are extinguished, how does Mr. Intelligent Invader find his way around a house he's never been in?

 

In this scenario, I shoot you more than three times, because you thought you were smart.

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How does one "bust" into a home and then be stealthy while extinguishing light sources?

 

After the lights are extinguished, how does Mr. Intelligent Invader find his way around a house he's never been in?

 

In this scenario, I shoot you more than three times, because you thought you were smart.

 

Im sure its entirely possible to break into a home without waking up the dead. Or better yet to already be in the home when the owners arrive. At that point, dealing with illumination is trivial. Oh and one simply needs a small flashlight to find their way around an unfamiliar area when in the dark. Now granted, all of this is taking away such factors as dogs, truly effective alarm systems and the like. Either way, I agree that "busting" into a home does not coincide with "stealthy" methods. Regardless, Im not really trying to make any "strong" points here as I certainly am not interested in pondering the best way to invade a home. Nor am I an advocate of such activity. Im just throwing out random thoughts for the h*ll of it..nothing more. ;)

Edited by shotgunNoob

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Most of the time that is true, but if you read through some of the accounts of actual home invasions, there are some bold/stupid people, and they are not always alone.

 

I would consider racking my shotgun too, but not until I have made a positive ID, and made a good assessment of the situation.

 

I have a dim night light halfway down a long hall that is shaded to only luminate in the opposite direction. I can see whoever is coming, what they are carrying, long before they will ever know that I am there. If they are unarmed? Sure, I will rack the shotgun, but if they clearly have a gun and they are wearing a skimask, I will unload without warning.

 

I would never give away my position, that would only afford the intruder an opportunity to try and take a hostage or worse just open fire blindly.

 

The only warning you need is a whisper to verify friend or foe.

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P.S. My view of protecting my family is keeping them out of harms way. If thats means hiding and waiting for the bad guys to leave. I've done my job. If that means pulling the trigger. Done job to.

 

 

i agree fully. well said.

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I would never give away my position, that would only afford the intruder an opportunity to try and take a hostage or worse just open fire blindly.

 

The only warning you need is a whisper to verify friend or foe.

what the **** is the differance????

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when it happen to me, i had a light on in the living room.not a bright one , but like 40w. that is how i saw the gun in the mans hand, when he rounded the corner of the hall. if you have a light on in a far room and your in the dark racking a shotgun, the only thing youve given away is the fact your armed and prepared to use deadly force.if you do this anyone "frendly" is going to speak up. im not going to whisper to no one but my wife, to call 911. we even have a phone in the closet.

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Does a coach gun make a "distinctive sound" ?

 

I am newbie (after 20+ year hiatus). I have questions galore, but wanted to put my two bits in on this post!

 

1. I choose not to be at any dope heads mercy. If I must shoot another human-being outside war, I would still shoot to kill. (very small woman, very large guns)

2. Not all homes are designed in the manner you describe, that is why not all guns are in safe.

3. Do not “hem” them in, but if they fall outside your home when shot, drag them back inside before notifying police about shooting.

4. Home security system (guns not included) not compatible with all homes without serious remodel.

5. Shotgun under couch, not getting close enough for ball bat!

 

Fact: I will shoot until chamber empty, probably even after….

Edited by wolfbella
adding to post

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I sugest all of you read the Castle Doctrine and any Amendments added to it. Also study your State laws on home invasion, forced entry, etc. I have.

Name me any person that has been sentenced to jail for defending his home with a legal weapon. In the news recently, a man who walked to the end of his driveway and killed a 17 year old by shooting him in the face and didn't get one day. Oh yes, his handgun was illegal also.

You do not have to retreat and baracade yourself. If you cannot take a mans life, I sugest you take up knitting because your wasting your money with firearm protection. Use a shotgun and be sure he is dead because if he lives, you will be sued in civil court for hurting him. If using a handgun, empty the mag and slap a new one in. If using a shotgun, fire 3 shots and if the body twitches, fire a couple more. When Police arrive, NEVER talk to the Police. Tell them your waiting on your lawyer. Why? "ANYTHING you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law."

All home invasion crimes go before the Grand Jury to decide if you are tried in Court. I've never seen anyone go to trial for home invasion protection.

I have a loaded firearm in every room of my home and a few knives scattered about as well. I have a Concealed Carry Permit and carry virtually 24/7. Not all of us live in crime free areas.

 

Part 1

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

part 2

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

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I sugest all of you read the Castle Doctrine and any Amendments added to it. Also study your State laws on home invasion, forced entry, etc. I have.

Name me any person that has been sentenced to jail for defending his home with a legal weapon. In the news recently, a man who walked to the end of his driveway and killed a 17 year old by shooting him in the face and didn't get one day. Oh yes, his handgun was illegal also.

You do not have to retreat and baracade yourself. If you cannot take a mans life, I sugest you take up knitting because your wasting your money with firearm protection. Use a shotgun and be sure he is dead because if he lives, you will be sued in civil court for hurting him. If using a handgun, empty the mag and slap a new one in. If using a shotgun, fire 3 shots and if the body twitches, fire a couple more. When Police arrive, NEVER talk to the Police. Tell them your waiting on your lawyer. Why? "ANYTHING you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law."

All home invasion crimes go before the Grand Jury to decide if you are tried in Court. I've never seen anyone go to trial for home invasion protection.

I have a loaded firearm in every room of my home and a few knives scattered about as well. I have a Concealed Carry Permit and carry virtually 24/7. Not all of us live in crime free areas.

 

Part 1

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

part 2

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

 

I know a guy that went to jail with after hitting a man that broke into his house with a baseball bat. He hit him in the back as the guy was running away. He didn't have a permit for the bat but ???

 

 

novaking

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This discussion drives me bananas. You guys need to be careful! Shotguns are for hunting birds. If you live in area so "dangerous" that you are thinking of shooting someone, then you need to move. What's with you guys? I promise NOT to visit any of you when you are incarcerated for killing someone. Face it, ... today, the law seems to be on the side of the criminal. Law-abiding citizens like US are at a definite disadvantage in the scenario.

 

I am sick and tired of reading all this "tactical" crap. Shotguns are for hunting. If you want to kill somebody, get a 44 magnum (like "Dirty Harry"). What is this you guys are in to?... some kind of "penis envy" or something like that? Do you think you have to have the "biggest gun" and be prepared to face a situation which will probably get you killed just because you are such a macho S.O.B.? Get real!!!

 

Just my two cents.

 

P.S. My two buddies and I got 30 quail Friday (with my 'humble' Montefeltro Silver 20 gauge). No one tried to rob us in the process. I sure am glad I didn't have to shoot anybody.

 

Please think about this.

 

I like this guy!!

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Thanks, Novaking. Shotguns are for putting food on the table. Killing folks ain't for me. Tired of all the Macho dudes that think they are going to do otherwise. Hope they don't kill me if I happen to knock on their door! I would much rather see more technical (mechanical) and hunting issues addressed on the forum.

Edited by MontefeltroPro

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P.S. My two buddies and I got 30 quail Friday (with my 'humble' Montefeltro Silver 20 gauge). No one tried to rob us in the process. I sure am glad I didn't have to shoot anybody.

 

You think you're safe out there with the dogs and the quail and trusted friends, don't you? :D

 

harrywhittington_wideweb__470x353,0.jpg

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hey conny, matbe you need to pick up a copy of the october, and november issue of national rifleman. it list several people who are in jail for using "unnecasary deadly force" to protect their home. i shot a man a few years back that was in my home to kill me, thinking i was someone else. its not near as easy to live with as all the killing machines in this forum might think.its real easy to be gung ho, when you have never been in that situation. some of them for killing more than they intended to.such as an inoccent bystaner, neighbor , or family member that went bump in the night.

Edited by splashtx556ftw

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