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Benelli AR15ish ARGO Rifle Thingy


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I'm also on a budget (there's apparently a recession going on). I know it is not ideal but I am strongly considering the Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30 as my first rifle. I know people complain about the accuracy but for the price I think it would get the job done. I like my Benelli M4 a lot and I think it will cover a wide range of situations. I am leaning towards the 7.62 rifles as shooting through a cinder block is a feature neither the M4 or the 5.56 rifles would be able to equal. I don't care for the AK styling so the Ruger does not seem like a bad choice by comparison. If you ever have to use a rifle in a self defence situation I think the Ruger would look a lot less intimidating to a jury if a criminal or civil suit resulted.

 

What could I get in a similar price range that would be better?

Edited by OhioM4
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Duggan, what is your recommendation for a newbies first assault rifle 'o' wizened and wise one???

 

I am a huge fan of the AR platform.

 

For a first AR for a new shooter? I'd build off a BCM 14.5 or 16 inch upper ... I could very easily give you a full list of parts and prices, but theres no point if I don't know what you are looking for.

 

Long story short, $1200 or so gets you a top of the line, ultra reliable, professional grade rifle ... and you can then save up a bit and get an optic for it in a few months. You can get a decent AR for $800, but you are compromising to do so ...

 

AKs are fun, but they are not in the same realm. It's like comparing a farm truck to a BMW.

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Based on the photos posted of the stubby piston and the pitting and corrosion, I fail to see any similarity between the pistons on the shotguns and the ones on the rifle.

 

I'm not comparing it to the shotguns. I'm comparing it to the R1, Benelli's previous rifle offering.

 

Here's the quote from Benelli on the R1 - "The reliability of the R1's auto-regulating gas operated (ARGO) system has been proven in the US Marine's choice of the M1014 military shotgun and has been adapted for centerfire rifle cartridges with a three-lugged rotary bolt. The rifle's gas cylinder is positioned just in front of the chamber allowing for short operating rods and reduced recoiling mass."

 

Look familiar?

 

Does this not indicate that the R1 and MR1 are employing the same ARGO system? The one that wears out quickly?

 

Benelli has always seemed to have a liberal way of describing their weapons. So I tend to take their claims with a grain of salt.

 

Fastest, lightest, accurate, reliable, lowest recoil, etc., and so on.

 

They make a great shotgun product.

 

Rifles? I'm not yet convinced on their claims.

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Nope. The M4 was my first fire arm purchase. I've determined I'm more afraid of Obama than burglars at this point. I'm thinking of purchasing an AR and a semi auto pistol with some hi capacity mags, possibly a Glock or a Sig. I've done research on the pistols and have rented a variety of them at the range. I don't have much info on the ARs. I've looked at the S&W M&P series and the Sig 556. Both are pricey and I wouldn't know a quality AR if it shot me in the a$$.

Not to steal the glory from this post which is going very well but I have a S&W M&P15A that is like new that needs a home.

I have 240rds of Federal through it and besides the little nick they get on the case deflector it looks new. It has the 16" barrel, M4 handgaurd and the Troy/M&P flip up rear sight.

I am asking $900obo and that includes the gun, case, lock and S&W paperwork. I bought it new in Mrach of this year so it isn't a old safe queen either.

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I'm not comparing it to the shotguns. I'm comparing it to the R1, Benelli's previous rifle offering.

 

Here's the quote from Benelli on the R1 - "The reliability of the R1's auto-regulating gas operated (ARGO) system has been proven in the US Marine's choice of the M1014 military shotgun and has been adapted for centerfire rifle cartridges with a three-lugged rotary bolt. The rifle's gas cylinder is positioned just in front of the chamber allowing for short operating rods and reduced recoiling mass."

 

I can definitely see the similarity to the R1 piston setup. I objected to the Bennelli quote that implies the reliability of the shotgun ARGO system carries over to the rifle ARGO system. Quality by association, even though it appears to be a radically different design. Apart from gas pushing the piston I don't think you can make much of a comparison. As Unobtanium pointed out the pressures involved are vastly different. They may have just as well said the rifle is safe to fire because both it and the military shotgun have barrels that are bored all the way through!

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I can definitely see the similarity to the R1 piston setup. I objected to the Bennelli quote that implies the reliability of the shotgun ARGO system carries over to the rifle ARGO system. Quality by association, even though it appears to be a radically different design. Apart from gas pushing the piston I don't think you can make much of a comparison. As Unobtanium pointed out the pressures involved are vastly different. They may have just as well said the rifle is safe to fire because both it and the military shotgun have barrels that are bored all the way through!

 

Shotguns and rifles are very different things, I agree. I also wonder about the inherent accuracy/inaccuracy of a system that has a gas trap so close to the breach. That bolt is unlocking before the bullet is out of the barrel. A recipe for disaster if not handled properly.

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I know it is not ideal but I am strongly considering the Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30 as my first rifle. I know people complain about the accuracy but for the price I think it would get the job done. I like my Benelli M4 a lot and I think it will cover a wide range of situations. I am leaning towards the 7.62 rifles as shooting through a cinder block is a feature neither the M4 or the 5.56 rifles would be able to equal. I don't care for the AK styling so the Ruger does not seem like a bad choice by comparison. If you ever have to use a rifle in a self defence situation I think the Ruger would look a lot less intimidating to a jury if a criminal or civil suit resulted.

 

I'm inclined to "forceably correct" anybody who values form over function. Styling simply doesn't matter if you're getting something for a utilitarian purpose (defense, hunting, etc.). That said, I think Ruger Mini-14's or Mini-30's are good reliable firearms. Based on the M1A, so you can hardly go wrong with them. Don't worry about the accuracy. You're not going to Afghanistan anytime soon, are you? They'll hit what you're aiming to shoot at Iraq distances. :p

 

The only reason why I don't have a Mini-14 (other than money) is that the magazines look too much like my AR magazines. I'm afraid I'd pick up the wrong one, and the darn thing would fall out of my rifle when I try to insert it. What good would that be? I've already got 6.8mm and 5.56mm magazines. Thankfully they're different (Teflon 6.8's, and milspec gray and PMag 5.56mm). Throw another lookalike in there and that's too much. I'll have to start using colored electrical tape to tell them apart. I don't want to stick tape all over my magazines.

 

AK would make a good defense gun. REAL good one.

 

I can see what you mean about juries seeing "evil black rifle" or AK and thinking you're the bad guy even in your own home. All I can say about that is: You only stand trial if you survive. You don't stand trial when you're dead. Make sure you're alive to stand trial; and you can deal with the trail if/when it happens.

 

This is turning into a rant, isn't it? Geez, I must be getting old ...

Edited by LeoAtrox
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AKs are fun, but they are not in the same realm. It's like comparing a farm truck to a BMW.

 

While doing some research I came upon this webpage comparing the AR, AK, and Mosin Nagant. :rolleyes:

 

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

 

Here's a sample:

AK:When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.

 

AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.

 

Mosin: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

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While doing some research I came upon this webpage comparing the AR, AK, and Mosin Nagant. :rolleyes:

 

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

 

Here's a sample:

AK:When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.

 

AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.

 

Mosin: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

 

If you're buying a gun based on its usefulness as a club, you are doing it wrong. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like Benelli finally posted the MR1 on their web page. It got top billing over the Vinci!

 

It looks like it has a nicely designed optional rail system forward of the front grip.

Edited by OhioM4
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Official Response from Benelli Customer Service regarding corrosion and pitting of the gas pistons on the R1 rifles:

 

"There is no problem with the guns. Rust is a result from improper storage in most cases or irregular cleaning.

 

Thank You"

 

I guess we should stop storing them in damp peat moss and cleaning them with rock salt.:p

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Wow, that looks like a bad Photoshop taking bits and pieces from an R1, M2 and CX4 and putting them together.

 

The modularity of the AR platform is what makes it so popular. Change upper, change caliber, barrel length, whatever. And you can order that new upper through the mail (just make sure you know your state's laws).

 

Not sure that this thingy will take anything away from the AR market.

 

C97

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If everybody on the forums sends me $20 I will suffer the humiliation of being an early adopter. I promise to faithfully report back to everyone with detailed info on its performance or lack thereof. It will be my dirty little secret.

 

I looked over a SIG556 this weekend at the gun store and it fits me really well. Much more natural to hold and fire than the Mini14. Unfortunately, the Mini14 is still the one that fits my budget.

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If everybody on the forums sends me $20 I will suffer the humiliation of being an early adopter. I promise to faithfully report back to everyone with detailed info on its performance or lack thereof. It will be my dirty little secret.

 

I looked over a SIG556 this weekend at the gun store and it fits me really well. Much more natural to hold and fire than the Mini14. Unfortunately, the Mini14 is still the one that fits my budget.

 

I want a sig556, but i live in california...

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I do like the optional rail mount. It goes at the end of the fore grip. This is the concept I would like to find for the M4 shotgun. Surefire M80 replacement grips are completely covered by the rails and don't look too comfortable. I only want a short one at the front for a flashlight. The nicest mount I've seen so far is the SideArmor rail but it is a bit pricey just to stick a flashlight on.

mr1_optional_rail.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

 

The only plus to an AR versus an MR1 is that you could hit someone with it and still have a front sight.

 

Oh no he di-in't. Wait, what? I don't even get that ...

 

 

 

I am so over this gun. I bought a RRA AR15 and am happy with the decision.

 

It's hard to not be happy with a Rock River "LAR". They are some of the best civilian-type AR's out there. When I built my son's semi-auto M16A4 clone, I chose RRA receivers and internals because they really are great. (He's got a Del-Ton heavy chrome-lined barrel w/ a NATO-spec chamber; but the RRA barrels with the Wylde chambers are great too.)

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Oh no he di-in't. Wait, what? I don't even get that ...

The only good thing about a DI AR15 is it's ruggedness, my MR1 does anything my S&W AR did but better. Sure if were talking combat situation I'd take the M4 but only because of parts availability.

As for my comment the MR1 uses a modular plastic forend/handguard with the sight in it. I would assume if you had to introduce it to someones face it might break.

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