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Springfield Armory socom 16


Hookster
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Hey Guys, I just got back from checking out a Springfield Armory socom 16 at the local shop. Any M1A guys here with an opinion on the socom 16? Does anyone know if the iron sights would co-witness if I had an Aimpoint M2 or M4 on a low profile mount on the handguard rail?

 

Thanks,

Hookster

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Nothing will co-witness with the factory mini-rail.

 

Strongly consider passing on the Socom and going with a Bush/Scout model. Socoms have some reliability issues due to the short barrel, and the muzzle blast will roast a chicken.

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talyn do you own a socom 16? I do, and I love it...i have put at least 800 rounds through it without one fail to fire or cycle. I also own a standard M1A. I would ask what kind of ammo you were using if you were havin reliability issues. Also are you cleaning your rifle upside down or closing off the gas port when cleaning? Allowing solvent or oil to enter the gas system can affect the systems function. As for the co-witnessing...i am not sure...the iron sights on the rifle are so good...with a larger rear ghost ring allowing pretty quick target aquisition, i have never considered optics. Also what do you plan on using the rifle for? I have a friend who uses it as his bear rifle and he loves it. Accuracy is pretty good, but the rifle isnt meant for long range shooting....but hitting 18 inch steel plates from any position at 100 yards is pretty easy. You definately will punish the guy next to you on the firing line with the concussion that comes from the muzzle break. Recoil aint bad....i dont notice any difference between the standard length and the 16 inch barrels. I would also advise against the socom 2 model with the cluster rail...it just gets too heavy. The one downside to the rifle....the price. I bought about 2 years ago right as people were starting to get scared that they would become illegal...so i snatched it up, at the time i paid 1750 out the door with california doj fees and everything. I actually enjoy shooting the standard M1A better just because i love the feel of wood and its a little more accurate. But if the world comes to an end...out of everything in the safe...i would grab the socom...short, maneuverable ,powerful reliable, and accurate enough for what its for.

Edited by tinman1975
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Thanks for the responses. I've been researching for the last few hours on the M14/M1A forums:

 

http://m14tfl.com/upload/index.php

 

the main consensus on reliability problems that I'm seeing so far seem to say that problems are more rumor than fact. But I'm still looking into things. They seem like they handle really nice but I bet they do have a loud bark. I posted the co-witness question there and got a response right away that it wouldn't without getting an Ultimak handguard but the stock irons seemed great with a Trijicon insert in the front.

 

Yeah the one I saw today was the first they've seen around here for about a year and they were asking about 1750 which is a bit much but it just seems like it would be a fun little hard hitter to add to the collection.

 

Hookster

Edited by Hookster
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After much research, I just purchased a M1A Scout Squad (now in the ten days wait period.)

 

I originally tried to opt for the Socom 16, yet I eventually went for the more all-round Scout Squad...

 

Try to do a google search on the subject "M1A Owners: Scout Vs SOCOM16" and it would link us to some owner insights.

 

Happy shopping,

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Hookster, are you looking at that particular rifle because your in a restricted state? They are decent rifles, I have shot M1A and find it to be a very decent platform. However, the price is a little steep and if I wasn't in a restriced state I would probably get a DSA FAL for roughly the same price and is also very reliable. I guess it would be a question of what your using it for, I couldn't imagine using that thing indoors.

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HI HK, Yeah, I'm in CA so my choices are limited. If you have a semi auto rifle with a pistol grip it must have a disabled mag release, making it what they consider a non detachable magazine. The M1A is considered ok since it has a conventional stock but I wouldn't be able to put on an after market stock like the Troy one since it has a pistol grip. I'm also limited to 10 round mags. I'd love a FAL but the only ones you can get here have the disabled mag release and it's hard for me to bring myself to buy one in that state. Fortunately the rifles that I do have ARs etc. are not restricted by these laws since I brought them into the state and registered them as assault weapons before the cut off date back in 2000. There are however restrictions on what you can't do with a registered assault weapon in the state.(weapon can't be transferred to anyone etc.) I've had alot of nice weapons over the years before these assault weapon laws that I sold off and it's sad to know I'll never be able to replace most of them since they are banned. :(

 

Maybe I'll be moving out of state one of these days. But for now at least the weather here is nice....:)

 

Later,

Hookster

Edited by Hookster
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talyn do you own a socom 16? I do, and I love it...i have put at least 800 rounds through it without one fail to fire or cycle. I also own a standard M1A. I would ask what kind of ammo you were using if you were havin reliability issues. Also are you cleaning your rifle upside down or closing off the gas port when cleaning? Allowing solvent or oil to enter the gas system can affect the systems function. As for the co-witnessing...i am not sure...the iron sights on the rifle are so good...with a larger rear ghost ring allowing pretty quick target aquisition, i have never considered optics. Also what do you plan on using the rifle for? I have a friend who uses it as his bear rifle and he loves it. Accuracy is pretty good, but the rifle isnt meant for long range shooting....but hitting 18 inch steel plates from any position at 100 yards is pretty easy. You definately will punish the guy next to you on the firing line with the concussion that comes from the muzzle break. Recoil aint bad....i dont notice any difference between the standard length and the 16 inch barrels. I would also advise against the socom 2 model with the cluster rail...it just gets too heavy. The one downside to the rifle....the price. I bought about 2 years ago right as people were starting to get scared that they would become illegal...so i snatched it up, at the time i paid 1750 out the door with california doj fees and everything. I actually enjoy shooting the standard M1A better just because i love the feel of wood and its a little more accurate. But if the world comes to an end...out of everything in the safe...i would grab the socom...short, maneuverable ,powerful reliable, and accurate enough for what its for.

 

I have 4 M1As - Standards & Scouts. Have shot them for 20+ years in competition. I know how to clean & maintain M1As. Recoil is not an issue. I have shot Socoms but don't have one & wouldn't for the following reasons.

 

#1 - The Socom gas system is different than the longer barrels & more finicky.

 

#2 - 308/7.62 factory ammo is loaded for best performance from longer barrels. You will lose performance with the 16".

 

#3 - By getting a Scout you gain some manuverability advantages over a standard but maintain performance in ammo & your gas system is still the same.

 

I have both Ultimak & SA factory rails on M1As. The Ultimaks are the best but still need a smaller red dot (Aimpoint T1) to get the best cowitness. The M2's are OK but big (I have those too). Plus it depends on your mount. I use QR rings for the M2 which adds to the height but I can pop it off quick.

 

You can get a Scout for much less $ than the Socom & put the savings into mags & ammo. But it's your money.

 

My .02.

Edited by Talyn
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Well hookster opinions are like A$%^&holes....everyone has one. I think if you were to google socom 16 reliability...i think you would find that you would get far more positive opinions than negative ones. As for gas system function....yeah the original gas system is intended for the long barrel, but springfield has completely revamped the gas system to be socom 16 specific, and take it from an owner....it works. As for .308 factory ammo being loaded for best performance for long barrels...the manual that comes with the socom specifically says to use mil spec 7.62 ammo...which could also be a source for "finicky" function rumors....i dont fire cheap or reloaded gun show ammo through my 1800 dollar rifle. Also if you were to search ballistics for the socom....performance isnt really much different from the full length barrel.....you lose about 50 fps. Im not bashing the scout model, because I dont have one....you pretty much just need to decide what you are looking for. The socom has different sights that are clearly intended for closer range and faster target aquisition, and become kind of thick and bulky trying to shoot out past 300 yards....you will find with holdover...your front blade will cover your entire target at 400 yards. If you are looking at the socom I assume you are looking for something compact. If not, I would say just go with the standard...they seem to be much more readily available and much cheaper. Like someone pointed out in an earlier post...here in cali, i can sell the rifle even with almost 1k rounds through it, for more than i paid for it by the end of the week. The only other consideration I would say is....you will spend just as much money on ammo as you will the rifle:) At best, 7.62 is still about 59 cents a shot ranging to 80 cents to a buck, depending on what you buy. Either way you go...the M1A platform is awesome and you will want more.

Edited by tinman1975
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the muzzle blast will roast a chicken.

 

MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm......Chicken!!!

 

Well, I'm taking the plunge. I just did the deal and I'll be picking it up on the 15th. Thanks for all opinions offered. I don't have expectations of it coming close to the accuracy of the full size M1As but I do expect that it'll be a hard hitting little rifle with reasonable accuracy in the 0 to 200 yard range. Something that will give me a step up in power from my 5.56 ARs if I wanted/needed. From what I've been seeing while doing my online research I think that it will fulfill those expectations. If it turns out that I don't like it, I can always sell it. Anyway, I'll post some thoughts after I have a chance to shoot the thing and see what I think.

 

Later,

Hookster :)

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....performance isnt really much different from the full length barrel.....you lose about 50 fps.

 

You lose 40-50 fps with every inch of the barrel is the rule of thumb. Published by the ammo companies & common knowledge.

Edited by Talyn
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You lose 40-50 fps with every inch of the barrel is the rule of thumb. Published by the ammo companies & common knowledge.

 

 

I just checked my numbers...you are right it is slightly more...not quite that much, but I have only tested lithuanian M80 146 grain and lake city XM80 and i had variances of 120-150 fps between my socom and standard.

neverless, its a moot point now.....have a blast with the new rifle hookster....I know you will love it

Edited by tinman1975
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MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm......Chicken!!!

 

Well, I'm taking the plunge. I just did the deal and I'll be picking it up on the 15th. Thanks for all opinions offered. I don't have expectations of it coming close to the accuracy of the full size M1As but I do expect that it'll be a hard hitting little rifle with reasonable accuracy in the 0 to 200 yard range. Something that will give me a step up in power from my 5.56 ARs if I wanted/needed. From what I've been seeing while doing my online research I think that it will fulfill those expectations. If it turns out that I don't like it, I can always sell it. Anyway, I'll post some thoughts after I have a chance to shoot the thing and see what I think.

 

Later,

Hookster :)

 

Congrats. Enjoy my 5.56s, but something about the 7.62. I don't have mine designated as a bug out rifle or anything due to the weight of the ammo and the mags, but it's nice. Check out Fulton Armory. They have a nice NM titanium nitrite gas piston and an operating rod spring guide that are worth getting Walt has an excellent book of the rifle there too that's worth getting. Check out the AR-15 Armory section on M-1 to see what mags to avoid as well

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I have owned a SOCOM since they first came out. I heavily modified mine with a Sage stock. I have NEVER had any reliability problems - other then when I failed to fully seat in the mag. But that was me. They are great. They are quite a bit louder than an Scout or a regular M1a, but you should be waring ear protection anyway. It has consumed any 308 I have fed it.

 

sage.jpg

 

That is an old picture. I am mounting a ACOG on her currently - once I get all the pieces parts that are on back order!

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Thanks Flame Red, it's nice to hear another positive review of the SOCOM. I can't wait to start playing around with mine. What kind of mounting will you be getting for your ACOG?

 

Thanks,

Hookster

 

I started out with an Eotech and 3x magnifier with FTS mount as pictured above. No problems with that setup. Loved it. However, I recently had cataract surgery and all my red dots gave me a halo effect. So I am selling them all.

 

I was very undecided about which ACOG to get. I settled on a TA47R-4: 2x20. More or less because I wanted used to save $. I kind of decided that I did not want 3x or higher magnification on this rifle (like I have on my AR). I don't use it for that long of a distance.

 

It came with a low mount, but unfortunately that mount does not lock on securely to the weaver rails on the Sage. I tried my ACOG from my AR-15 on it and it locked solid as a rock. I also liked the little bit higher mount too. So I ordered another American Defense QD mount for a compact ACOG and a M01 special ACOG mount. Still waiting for the parts to arrive as they are back ordered :(

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Hey Flame Red, I have a EO tech w/3x FTS magnifier too, on one of my ARs. I've been thinking about a few options for SOCOM optics. Since I'm in CA I can't go to an aftermarket stock w/rails if it has a pistol grip so I'd have to use the small handguard rail or get something like the standard scope mount that Springfield Armory sells. I was thinking that this Trijicon RMR that I'd been considering for my Benelli might go well on the handguard mount but we'll see. I may just stick with the irons.

RM01_45-web1.jpg

If you can post a pic of yours with the ACOG on it once you get your parts and get it all together, I'd love to see it and hear how you like that combination.

 

Take Care,

Hookster

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I just received the mounts for the ACOG and it is now on rock solid. I have not tried it yet but I like how the AR mount raises it up. I get a more comfortable cheek weld. The 2x is perfect, no problem with eye relief, focusing and a great sight picture. I am glad I did not go with any higher magnification. I also like the cross hairs too.

 

Socoms are nice, but are heavy dudes for the round

 

Yes, they are, and noisy too. But a lot of fun for close up blasting!

 

I bet our boys in Taliban land would love some M1a's - would do a lot of good by putting a lot of towel head dicks in the dirt!

 

IMG_1113.jpg

 

IMG_1115.jpg

Edited by Flame Red
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Hey Flame Red, Sorry about the delayed response but I'm just coming out of a three day power outage from a storm last Monday.

 

I like your socom build. The ACOG looks great with the American Defense mount. I just picked up my socom today and I have an Aimpoint ML 3 w/2moa dot on the way with the Aimpoint low 1/4" high ring but also have my eye on the American Defense low Aimpoint mount. I e-mailed them to ask how high the bottom of the ring is above the rail but I haven't heard back from them yet. From the picture it looks like it might be slightly higher than the Aimpoint ring but not by much. I'll post some pics and a review when I get everything together with mine.

 

Later,

Hookster :)

Edited by Hookster
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