ohbejuan Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Is it normal for the stock screws to be rusty and the stock parts dirty out of the box? Is it just the 2 pieces or are they wrapped in plastic? Quote
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 NO ! Are your screws Philips or Hex, Sometimes they come wrapped in plastic bubblewrap. They will have cardboard fibers from sliding inside the box during shipments but dust right off. Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 They are hex on top of the stock. I left it with my SOT/FFL as it is coming with an SBS (some 4 months down the road). I'm thinking I might just pick up another one here on the board and sell the rusty one off later at a discount (maybe even order replacement screws). Both of the parts were loose in the box with no plastic or other cardboard and it looked like the stock had been attached at least once. The grip was covered in some sort of fibers. I really don't like paying $250 for a rusty item, who knows what else is wrong with the thing. *note: I did NOT buy my stock from anyone here on the forum* Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 That is odd that Numrich's M4 schematic shows phillips screws but the adjustable one I bought is hex? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1439700.htm Quote
Sukhoi_fan Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 That is odd that Numrich's M4 schematic shows phillips screws but the adjustable one I bought is hex? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1439700.htm Not odd, the c-stock that came on my m1014 was one style and a later c-stock was the other style fastener head (I don't recall now which was which), so at some point the change was made. Perhaps some other forum member can provide more background. SD? Quote
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 All newer ones come with HEX screws , that's how they come except no rust. Probably been sitting in the cold soaking up moisture. Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 All newer ones come with HEX screws , that's how they come except no rust. Probably been sitting in the cold soaking up moisture. Is there any spec info or place to get replacement hex screws? Can't find them on numrich Quote
12508 Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 I have two sets I bought at the same time from Botach about 4 years ago. One set is hex, one is phillips. The H2O has hex. Quote
StrangerDanger Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Good info 12508. This is one of the inline upgrades that occurred at some point with Benelli. I believe the original M4 produced for the Marine Corps was issued with the philips head fasteners. I know Botach at some point sourced a bunch of these older model collapsible stocks. Most who bought them were reporting that they came with a free sample of Iraqi/Afghanistan dirt in them. I've noted a lot of military gear is moving away from philips fasteners. One of the big reasons is to keep grunts from taking things apart that they shouldn't. Hexhead screws are certainly better. You can apply a proper torque load with less chance of stripping out the fastener. This is assuming you know how to properly seat the hexhead tool into the bit. This may seem like common sense, but I have found many do not ensure that the tool is seated fully to the bottom of the fastener. The more tool you have into the fastener, the larger the area that the torque load is spread. This reduces the chance of ovaling out the hole. Fastener quality isn't always known either. If you've ever spent a lot of time at a place like McMaster-Carr, you know that there is a wide range in quality and treatments available. I have tried sourcing some of the small parts for the Benelli at these kind of sites. They are difficult or impossible to find. Or you'll have to find a European source. An example of this would be the top rail fasteners for the M4. What I would do is call Benelli and tell them about the issue. Chances are they may send you three replacements. That way you don't get stuck paying over 30 dollars for three fasteners. I imagine the hexhead and the philips bits are threaded the same. Just be careful not to lose the lock washers beneath each fastener. Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 6, 2015 Author Posted June 6, 2015 Good info 12508. This is one of the inline upgrades that occurred at some point with Benelli. I believe the original M4 produced for the Marine Corps was issued with the philips head fasteners. I know Botach at some point sourced a bunch of these older model collapsible stocks. Most who bought them were reporting that they came with a free sample of Iraqi/Afghanistan dirt in them. I've noted a lot of military gear is moving away from philips fasteners. One of the big reasons is to keep grunts from taking things apart that they shouldn't. Hexhead screws are certainly better. You can apply a proper torque load with less chance of stripping out the fastener. This is assuming you know how to properly seat the hexhead tool into the bit. This may seem like common sense, but I have found many do not ensure that the tool is seated fully to the bottom of the fastener. The more tool you have into the fastener, the larger the area that the torque load is spread. This reduces the chance of ovaling out the hole. Fastener quality isn't always known either. If you've ever spent a lot of time at a place like McMaster-Carr, you know that there is a wide range in quality and treatments available. I have tried sourcing some of the small parts for the Benelli at these kind of sites. They are difficult or impossible to find. Or you'll have to find a European source. An example of this would be the top rail fasteners for the M4. What I would do is call Benelli and tell them about the issue. Chances are they may send you three replacements. That way you don't get stuck paying over 30 dollars for three fasteners. I imagine the hexhead and the philips bits are threaded the same. Just be careful not to lose the lock washers beneath each fastener. Last time I talked to benelli, they said flat out,they do not do parts. Is there anywhere to get replacement hex screws, or anyone know the length and thread pitch? I'm wondering if there are any other metal parts in the assembly that could be rusted/damaged as well Quote
12508 Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 Just take one of the phillips and go to lowes or home depot and see if you can find a hex replacement on the fastener aisle. Most have a fixture to thread your existing fastener into to find the pitch. Might be worth a try. Quote
StrangerDanger Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 I'll pull one out of mine today and try to get some measurements. I'll see if I can find one at the fastener sites. My concern is the proper shaped head on the fastener so it fits that lock washers properly. Quote
StrangerDanger Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 I pulled the fastener and took some measurements. The allen head units are YSF 010.9 rated, overall length is 22mm. Head diameter is 7.77mm. Thread pitch is a metric 0.7mm coarse pitch. This is as close as I could find to it: http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=3l1xcqryszialeogs4 Will they fit? I can't say for certain. I'm certain the threads will match and the length should be appropriate. What I am uncertain about is the bottom profile of the fastener where it mates with the lock washer. As for more damage to the stock, the screws that hold the rubber butt pad could be rusting. The problem is you'll have a difficult time removing the screws from the buttpad in order to replace them. I tried a few times to get them out and gave up. They'd be difficult to remove without damaging the buttpad. There are a few steel pins inside the stock that engage the notches on the receiver extension. The unlock button itself is also steel. The rest is aluminum and plastic. Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 7, 2015 Author Posted June 7, 2015 I pulled the fastener and took some measurements. The allen head units are YSF 010.9 rated, overall length is 22mm. Head diameter is 7.77mm. Thread pitch is a metric 0.7mm coarse pitch. This is as close as I could find to it: http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=3l1xcqryszialeogs4 Will they fit? I can't say for certain. I'm certain the threads will match and the length should be appropriate. What I am uncertain about is the bottom profile of the fastener where it mates with the lock washer. As for more damage to the stock, the screws that hold the rubber butt pad could be rusting. The problem is you'll have a difficult time removing the screws from the buttpad in order to replace them. I tried a few times to get them out and gave up. They'd be difficult to remove without damaging the buttpad. There are a few steel pins inside the stock that engage the notches on the receiver extension. The unlock button itself is also steel. The rest is aluminum and plastic. Awesome info SD, thank you! I may just be better off selling it to someone less discerning than I am for a discount and buying new for myself Quote
charlie Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 Before you sell try Ace Hardware, they have a large selection of these type of screws. Quote
benelliwerkes Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 Photos by permission: Benelli M4 Anatomy Series Manual Quote
ohbejuan Posted June 8, 2015 Author Posted June 8, 2015 Look about right? http://www.fastener-express.com/M4x.7x20mmFlatHeadStarTorxStyleSocketScrewsA2StainlessQty.aspx or https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/39943 Quote
StrangerDanger Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Awesome pictures Benelliwerks. We have a lot of the same tools. First link is a stainless finished fastener. The second is black. From comparing Benelliwerk's photos to the Fastenal pictures, it appears the head profile is the same. So that lock washer should fit properly. Quote
ohbejuan Posted August 11, 2015 Author Posted August 11, 2015 Not exactly sure what was different but I just bought a box of M4x.7 20mm from Fastenal and their screws were shorter than what came out of the benelli stock. I believe they still grabbed (at least got tight anyway) but they were shorter Quote
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