HH

Bottom line is that Benelli fabricates guns that are overpriced and not reliable and they have a non-existent ( poorly informed) customer service. It is no surprise that they want to avoid being a conduit to customer service. Oh yeah,,,,,, for the poor guy who owns the gun that shoots a foot low and a foot left...... just take the C shim and convert it to the D shim and install it backwards ..... that should cover the left shooting problem. So , just live with the 1 foot too low. If you are any kind of competent sportsman, you should be able to make yourself shoot high for the rest of your life,,,,,, or until you save up enough money to buy another brand.

that article describes the gun fit perfectly and the whole purpose of gun fit can be summed up in the following sentence that was in that article.... "We can throw the gun to our shoulder for a quick shot and not have to readjust the position before firing. " When we shoot birds on the wing, the whole shot is very fluid , dynamic movement. Anything that gets the gun in the proper shooting position assists the shot. It is still possible , however, to shoot well with a gun that doesnt fit if you learn to. But, all this gun fit stuff is not so relevant with the precise style of shooting turkeys. In this situation, we do have time to adjust our eye to line up the shot. Indeed, the significant difference between the two styles of shooting is instinctive shooting where you point the shotgun but with turkey hunting you aim the shotgun.

that should never happen ..... just imagine if you were using that gun for home defense.

I understand your problem and I dont think you have many options. I currently own a SBE that shoots dead-on but the Benelli that I had previously, shot about 100% low. In my opinion, arranging shims to adjust the fit of the gun is not going to correct your problem. I will completely agree that gun fit is extremely important for wing shooting because your eye is, in fact, the rear sight. But, we are talking about turkey hunting and shooting the shotgun like a rifle. Here the gun should (must ) shoot exactly where the rib and/or sights are lined up. In my opinion, you do have a significant problem and one that is troublesome to deal with. In my opinion, here are your options; 1. use an adjustable type of sighting device such as aimpoint or propoint or some other adjustable sight. You can then correct the POI with POA 2. Go to Briley and get a eccentric choke. this is a choke that is bored out of center which alter the shot in the direction you wish. Probably about 6" at 40 yrds is max. 3. You can send the gun to a gunsmith ( look at Seminole ) and have the barrel bent. They have precision equipment and can gently put a bend in the barrel. 4. I hate to say it but I would get rid of the gun. Possibly, you could convince Benelli to replace the barrel or possibly the gun. I dont know their policy , but I would not own a gun that doesnt shoot dead -on. good luck

You can purchase eccentric chokes from Briley. These chokes are purposely ground slightly off center which will move the pattern in the desired direction. You can also send the gun to someone like Seminole Gunworks and have the barrel bent slightly to move your pattern. In either case, competent gunsmiths can achieve desired results with very minor modifications. Seems like you are suggesting that an individual could grind out an existing choke tube and get results..... interesting. HH

Well, mudhen...... I've made my point , quite succesfully , I think. A scope is the same as beads on a rib and shims wont have any effect on your POI if you reposition your eye to the fixed line Point of Aim of your beads (or scope). Now, the question is no longer about shims , or scopes or POI but whether you are big enough of a man to admit that my observations have merit. HH

Listen carefully, a scope lines up to indicate where the gun shoots. exactly what two beads on a rigid rib does, if the gun shoots straight. The advantage of a scope is that its adjustable, whereby beads and ribs are fixed. The point is that once the two of them are lined up, you can change the shims all you want to and it wont effect the Point of Impact , because as Benelli CS confirms....."no matter where the stock is, you would need to reposition your face to see through the scope clearly." You can substitute the words beads for scope in this instance. If you are shooting turkey's instinctively like when we all wingshoot, so be it. But I will only accept a full apology from you for calling me an " idiot" ; telling me to "refrain from posting on subjects" here on Benelli, not to mention your honorless attempt to win pity when you claim to be "blasted" by others. You are insulting and arrogant ...and wrong. HH

This is from Benelli's own customer service dept. From: Customer6 Date: 05/30/06 11:28:59 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: BenelliUSA.com Comment When using a scope the shims will make no difference at all on the POI, since no matter where the stock is, you would need to reposition your face to see through the scope clearly. I hope this helps! Have a good day!

Here's a test.... put a scope on your shotgun and zero it in and then change shims and re-shoot the gun and see if the point of impact changes. HH

Would love to read this article that is refernced and I promise to be open minded..... The thing is, about turkey hunting, you dont always have the luxury of mounting the gun precisely evrytime. left handed shots, shots taken prone, twisted left, twisted right, the only constant is that your eye must use the the rib (beads) to line up the shot. The only effect that I would concede that by changing shims you change the dirction of dynamic recoil because the weight distribution is altered ever so slightly. This , in turn would change the POI. I do not believe, however, that the resulting change is sufficient to move the POI more than a few inches. I say again ( without blasting any one) that while wingshooting, your eye is the back sight which should stay constant during the shot. therefore, when you mount the gun, the orientation of the gun in relation to your eye is changed if you change the shims. While turkey hunting , the constant is the direction the barrel is pointed as indicated by the rib (beads) your eye must go to where these sights are pointed, otherwise you wont know precisely where the gun is pointed. But , no big deal for anyone to get upset, if you kill turkeys and I kill turkeys, that's cool. Benelli is a great gun. (especially one that shoots dead on) HH [ 05-28-2006, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: HH ]

It took about a week turnaround.... probably depends on his other work. Cost was about $75 HH

dont fret Archie, mudhen has insulted more than one on this forum. ... has to pretend his importance, I imagine. You just keep on with that marital bliss. post pics of your children if you can. HH

Like most production guns, benelli has a heavy pull on the trigger. The gun I use had a tremendous amount of trigger creep as well. dont remember the specs but 6-7 lbs sounds about right. I sent my trigger assembly to Alan Timney [(562) 865-0181] who does excellent and dependable work eliminating the creep and setting the pull to something more reasonable. A neat , crisp trigger is pretty important whether you are precision shooting a turkey or shooting birds on the wing. HH [ 05-15-2006, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: HH ]

OK , here is a definitive test. Put a scope on one of your favorite benelli shotguns and shoot a tight choke from a rest like you would for turkey hunting. Zero the scope so that you're dead on at 35 yrds. Then, change the shims and re-shoot and see if you point of impact changes. PS, I already know the results. good hunting. HH

Agreed, Virginia has lots of turkey hunting tradition. John McDaniel (author- Turkey Hunting/ Prof -Wash &Lee) is an friend and even though we made plans to hunt together, we never were able to match schedules. We did share stories of our attempts to bag a turkey with a longbow. HH

".....the user not understanding how to adjust his weapon or how to adjust himself to the proper form. " I understand Benelli suggested putting a big fat bead on the end of the gun. .... and btw, it's a known fact that we invented turkey hunting here in Misiissiiippi HH

oh , mudhen. Are some sort of moderator or representative of benelli? or are you just some self appointed jerk? HH

The bottom line to this issue is very fundamental. When shooting a shotgun at a moving target as you would a winged bird or clay target, your eye does indeed function as the rear sight. The basic dimensions of a shotgun, (it's cast and drop) determine where the barrel is pointed when you shoulder your gun. If the barrel doesn't line up correctly when you shoulder your gun, then you can make corrections by changing the cast and or drop, thereby changing where the barrel is lined up to shoot. Most importantly, wing shooting is a very dynamic act. It is comparable to a golf swing or virtually any other atheletic movement. Shooting your gun like a rifle as in turkey hunting, requires that you use the rib, or bead (s) to line up your shot, Your eye plays no role as a back sight. You must bring you eye in alignment with the back sight on the gun, which is a mid-rib bead or indeed the rib itself. It is crucial that the gun shoots the same direction that the sights line up for. Recoil is a very dynamic force that can have a significant effect on where the shot ultimately goes. Point of impact can be altered by adjusting the direction of recoil. Adjustments to recoil do occur if you change the dimension of the stock. Also, barrel whip is altered when you change the dimensions of the stock of a shotgun and then shoot it. In my opinion, these are useful for fine tuning the point of impact but should not be expected to be effective for moving a pattern more than 5-6 inches at 40 yrd. I think the essence of gun fitting (stock dimensions) is to align the gun with the natural position of the eye while in the dynamic act of shooting a moving target. I do not believe that recoil manipulation is the primary goal. Furthermore, if you tried to use recoil changes to move a point of impact too much, the stresses on the stock could crack some stocks and damage expensive guns. HH

I hate it when these celebrities lecture us on how we should think.

This stinks. guns of this price and quality should not have these type of problems of jamming , etc, and for gun not to shoot dead on is a nightmare. For them to suggest changing shims and then sending a oversized front bead shows how little they understand about shooting a shotgun at a turkey. If you put the gun in a vise and shoot it, it will always shoot the same regardless of the shims that you put in it. You could even cut the stock off and put it in a vise and shoot it, Granted, the recoil direction induced by changing shims is altered but generally not enough to change point of impact when you shoot the gun like a rilfle. Obviously, while wing shooting, changing the fit of the gun through shims is effective to fine tune a gun. This is all very discouraging to hear people who paid a lot of money for a gun that doesnt perform. I had a 3 1/2 load not cycle correctly this year while killing a coyote. Even though its only happened once, its unacceptable. HH

For what its worth,,,,,, I dont trust the dealer in this instance. westksbowhunter has no motive to make any of this up. however, the dealer has every incentive to try to ignore the problem. You've already got a lot of time and expense shipping the gun, but if you want to put more money in shipping, you shou,d consider sending it to seminole. they can test it a second time. what ever you do, good luck. I think benelli shotguns are pretty decent. I love the balance and feel of the sbe. Its especially good for shooting gobblers. HH

I find this odd. i would have some trouble believing the dealer..... I can imagine that they dont want to be bothered about it or they are not measuring the performance as closely. Most people dont have the appreciation of what you expect out of a turkey gun. if the gun shoots to the right, you could miss a turkey. Call seminole gunworks and talk to the guy there. he will likely suggest you send the gun and they can test it and get it shooting correctly. good luck HH

not to be argumentative, but if your gun shoots 1 " off right at 20 yrds , that would translate to being further off at 30 , which was the point of your original post. I dont know why mudhen suggest covering the turkey's head with the barrel when he aims at a turkey. I prefer to put the bead on the bottom portion of the neck and since my gun shoots about 60/40, it's pretty effective. There is a reason seminole offers services such as bending barrels and why briley offers eccentric chokes........ I suggest you contact them and let them eplain it. http://www.seminolegun.com/ http://www.briley.com/

I dont think shims will solve your problem. Shims can adjust the orientation of the mounted gun when you are wing shooting because your natural mount will be altered and move the shot direction closer to where you are looking. While wing shooting, you "aim" by looking at your bird. In essence, you point the gun at what you are looking at. Turkey hunting is all together a different activity. Here, you are aiming your shotgun like you would a rifle. You want to deliver the shot load exactly where the barrel is lined up to shoot as indicated by the orientation of front bead and the middle bead (or rib) Shims wont have any effect excpt it can change the recoil direction which can ultimately affect the direction of the shot load, but I dont fully buy this as a means to correct a 3 inch off line. You have a couple of options. 1. use a scope whereby you can easily zero in your gun. 2. get the barrel bent. (send to a competent gunsmith such as Seminole Gunworks) 3. get Briley to make you a eccentric choke. This choke is bored purposely out of line to bring your point of impact (POI) in line with your point of aim (POA) 4. get a new gun. Both 2 and 3 option can be expensive and you might not want a ugly scope on your shotgun. The problem is you never really know if the next gun will shoot true until you test it. good luck with your turkey hunting., our season is almost over here in Mississipi. HH

are you wing shooting or turkey hunting with tight choke?