wingbone

Cool site man thanks! I'm stuck in my ways for sure because what I'm still seeing even at that site is achieving maximum accuracy from a smoothbore by stabilizing the projectile, hence the fins, or in this case point the rifled slug. the sabot round will give you more range but I hope I have given you enough info and proof that the rifled barrel does not mean it will make anyone a better shot without an equal amount of practice. I guess the same reason military units and police are going back to the old .45acp, sure the lil 9mm goes faster/further, less recoil and carries more bullets, but when that big old lumbering hunk of lead from a .45 puts the smack down on you....well lets just say Christmas will be cancelled Anyway lets move on to better topics!...what slugs do you shoot out of your M4? there is alot of slugs it would seem my Benelli does not like to spit for one mine hates those Brenneke slugs, you could drive a truck through my group with those at 60 and 70 yards and lots of people swear by them? now I have yet to decide if it was me or my shotgun that made my mind up I was not going to shoot a 3" slug anymore because I can't seem to find one of them I shoot as well as I think I should but just trust me and go buy a few boxes of those new Winchester "power point" and a few of those new Federal "true ball" in the 2and3/4" and you will be amazed at what it will do! I'm glad to see that you are a very ethical hunter, I agree totally that much respect must be paid to the prey....I pay my respect as well to make sure I make a clean well placed shot the only way this can be done is to "shut them off like a light switch" ...you should come to Indiana and go hunting with me, area is thick with deer. **** I believe a fella could fill his tags in Walmart parking lot here~S the hunters get them all stirred up and they just stay on the move the entire season [ 11-03-2006, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

Wingbone-- You don't know what you think you know about this. An M1 Abrams uses a smoothbore because HEAT ammunition (about half the ammo on the tank) is considerably less effective if it is rotating. A Sabot round from an M1 also has fins to stabilize it, which your shotgun shells do not. I agree that Foster shells have come a long way, but you cannot compare the accuracy of a 24 inch, rifled slug barrel to that of a 18.5 inch smoothbore combat shotgun. HE IS LOOKING FOR A SLUG GUN, NOT YOUR FAVORITE COMBAT SHOTGUN. [/QB]and you are right about the HEAT rounds having fins and my Winchester slugs do not. but the 120mm M256 main gun is a smoothbore to increase muzzle velocity at lower pressure so those nasty little "silver bullets"( M865 TPCSDS-T, the M8300 HEAT-MP-T and the M829 APFSDS-T which includes a depleted uranium penetrator) can do their work that requires the higher velocity to penetrate the armour before getting inside and spewing all that molten metal around without blowing up the main gun....know a little more than you think I do don't I NOW for some more proof of the point I'm trying to make I went to the Federal ammunition site to get some more info. http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx the 12 gauge 2and3/4, 1oz. PREMIUM VITAL-SHOK BARNES EXPANDER has a muzzle velocity of 1450fps and 2042 energy in foot pounds. now for the 12 gauge 2and3/4, 1oz. "foster" PREMIUM VITAL-SHOK TRUBALL RIFLED SLUG has a muzzle velocity of 1600fps. and 2487 energy in foot pounds....Hmmm, I don't know much about the space program but????? AND he alreay has an M3....so I assume he is into combat shotguns like me. maybe it is just me but it seems once a fella gets into shooting a tactical shotgun they don't really like anything else? but anyways you have sound advice and and the SBEII is a fine shotgun of course. I'm sure the debate about rifled vs. smoothbore will rage on long after we are gone, my only regret is that that you and I have not hung out and done some shooting together because I'd bet after I let you shoot a couple of rounds from my 1014 you would want one too, everyone else I shoot with does and in the meantime I could win some money off you with the old "hog leg" [ 11-03-2006, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

Lt3097 I have a Benelli M1014 it has a 18.5" smooth bore barrel with no chokes, for optics I just switched from a reflex type sight to an Eotech 512a65 which I totally love! here is a peek

I do not agree, "foster" type slugs have come a long way from what we used to shoot!....and lots of people are going back to smooth bores now and shooting just as accurate as the rifled barrel shooters. oh, by the way is the main gun on the M1 Abrhams tank rifled now? and why? Two big advantages for the smooth bore shooter is the fact that you can shoot slugs or buckshot from the same gun/barrel (huge advantage for combat shotgun) second would be sheer cost, last weekend for example my buddy would have took more time and fired off more rounds if it wasnt costing him $12 every time he put five rounds in his shotgun when I know I fired off enough to equal a sleve and everyone knows if you want to shoot well you have to practice, practice, practice! now I'm not sayin anything bad about the SBII at all by no means but the gas operated Benelli is a joy to shoot recoil wise compared to the SBII and I'm sure nobody can argue that point. plus the fact I can put all kinds of aftermarket equipment without a big fear of it not working when I need it to. along with many others here in the forum have fired tons of various shells from my M1014 from 2 and 3/4" to 3", slugs to buckshot without a single malfuntion that I can remember even when it was brand new. I have even read posts from people here who has shot skeet with their M4 So if I was looking to buy another shotgun to use for hunting/home defense/plinking/and sheer tactical coolness even though I already have one would be a brand new M4. [ 11-03-2006, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

Still much I have to learn from ya Jedi Master! ...now for the light sabre! ((left out the wallpaper you gave me sh*t over last time

My bird from last spring. 24# ,1 and 1/4" spurs,and 10 and 3/4" beard. was a great morning...had four long beards come in all together!

WELL since you asked about my favorite slug/gun combo I'll be happy to answer you with a story~ at the local range this past weekend with my buddy sighting in his new 870 fully rifled barrel with a big a$* scope mounted on top and $12 for five round box of ammo deer slayin gun that he bragged could dot the eye on a fly with. put a little cash on the line with the old "you shoot it, you own it" game, with a grin as he stuck it to the target at the 100 yards. and well to shorten the story up a little bit my Benelli M1014, Eotech sight and my $3 a box Winchester Super X power point slugs took him to school and the money is in my pocket now....and bragging rights that is worth tons more than the money! bottom line is go get you an M4 and be the "mack daddy"! [ 11-02-2006, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

On the advice from this forum I purchased this sling for my Benelli and I think its the greatest!...no other sling as far as I'm concerned http://www.spectergear.com/benelli_cqb_sling.htm

I'm looking for some usmc woodland marpat trousers in med. reg. anyone know where to find them that does not cost a fortune??

~LOL~ I GOT to get me one of those books! Thanks, Cleric!

I just tried a new gun oil, its made by "Gunslick" and it has "Ultra Lube" on label....this is great stuff!...well it better have been it was $10 for 2.25 fl. oz.

Just got done watching Dawn of the Dead with the Hen tonight and noticed a shotgun seemed to be the weapon of choice when dealing with the attack of hords of flesh eating zombies!.....Although the old pump action shotguns they was using seemed to work pretty well I'd still much rather had my Benelli This flick has also motivated me to add some side rail and light to my system...ya never know when those hords of zombies can over run your position Oh! better stock up on some more ammo as well!

both!!!...I mean why not?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

forgot about your crew man!.....how about a brand new jar of peanut butter (extra smooth) and a bunch of old solider of fortune magazines?

[ 10-17-2006, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

I need a door breacher!!!...maybe I could fashion one out of a empty two liter pop bottle, duct tape, and some black spray paint?? ;p

I'm broke so I'll trade you a half pack of smokes and a bag of potato chips (cool ranch even) fer it! [ 10-17-2006, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

so I see now!....and to think this whole time, who would have guessed?

Hello!

I have a 512a65 on mine I just got about a month ago so I have not got to really put it to the test yet but on the advice from Duggan got one and must say I love it compared to the reflex sight that I thought was pretty good. I got the one that takes regular AA batteries because I can take batteries out of the TV remote if I had to and yes it will fit right on the pic. rail without any other aftermarket stuff unless you need to raise the sight up higher in which case I'm sure Duggan will follow up with a post to recommend one to you I will advise you though that the factory mounting thumb screw that comes with the Eotech blows! any throw lever mount is the way to go. you can't go wrong with any of the Eotech sights that you might decide on.

good lord!!! does that hog leg spit some fire or what?? I did'nt think the flash was near as bad as the 3" shells I had used before!! very cool pic though man. I will try to get some pics of flash in a low light situation as well.

I have a M1014 that is the only shotgun I use anymore (except for turkey hunting) and I have spent a lot of money on finding what works the best for me. bottom line is that it can be the best round ever manufactured but that don't mean nothing if you can't hit with it so practice is the key no matter what you decide. below is my personal choices for terminal situations buckshot: Hornady Tap, for personal defense ...2 3/4 OO buck, has muzzle vel. of 1370fps managed recoil round that works just as great in your auto as a pump. cool thing about these as well in the dark or evening shooting you will find these shells do not have that huge flash you are used to which would be to your advantage if you was in a situation in your home during dark hours. now for slugs: Winchester Power point rifled slugs....2 3/4 1oz. at the muzzle is 1700fps I just cant say enough about how impressed I am with these! you just need to buy a box or two and find out for yourself, these are great slugs and provide amazing transfer of energy now for your sidearm: Magtech Guardian Gold, you can get in just about any handgun caliber and for popular calibers several options for slug weight in grains. I use the 40s&w 180gr JHP, slug reminds you of the old black talon...makes a nasty mushroom and deep penetration. [ 10-11-2006, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: wingbone ]

Duggan how does the sidearmour mount again?....will this mark barrel?

I'll hook you up with a brand spankin new Sure Cycle two shot ext. tube for $50