h.bowman

Thanks for chiming in, as I do not know about metals and obviously you do. And as I said, aside from the use of Cerakote, that appeared to be the only other difference.

This thread = win. I love the M1A platform. I have a Socom II and a Socom 16, and a "loaded" M1A with the 20, 22, or 24 inch stainless barrel, I forget the exact length.

I somewhat agree with you. How "good" or "better" can one be over the other? I think from reading the stats regarding the CC and FFT tube, FFT is using a higher grade Ti. I could be wrong, though, I'm no specialist in metals. Does that even matter, especially when you get into Ti? Probably not. Thats about the only real difference as far as I can tell, except that CC has desert sand and he uses Cerakote where FFT doesn't. I would say they are probably about the same in quality as far as quality goes, but that is just a guess, having seen neither. But, how complicated is a mag tube? Not very. it then comes to price, availability, wait, communication with the seller, etc. That sort of stuff. Some of that stuff goes a long way with me. Some of it doesn't. Personally, I hope both of them succeed, and both of them increase inventory. They both certainly seem to be taking it seriously and offering good stuff.

I don't know of any other manufacturer other than FFT selling Ti tubes, but have you seen one or held one made by FFT? I haven't held either (FFT or CC), but until I held both, I couldn't confidently say "without question" one was better than the other or that one was "without question" the best. Man, if anyone around here could give objective tips to the new guys it would be a miracle. And don't think I prefer one over the other, that is, FFT over CC or CC over FFT. But seeing as how there are only a few manufacturers making ANY good stuff for the M4, or any stuff AT ALL for that matter, I kind of hope all the guys trying to make M4 stuff do well and grow their inventory. And I'm sure the new guys or the guys looking for tips on where to get stuff would prefer to have choice rather than just get pidgeonholed to one manufacturer or another based upon testimonials that fail to actually compare products. Which is the main reason I try to add some balance to the discussion. I mean, for years since I bought my gun, there have been very few, if any, people making quality M4 parts. FINALLY, CC and FFT come along and both seem to be making a decent go at it. I hope they both do well and both continue to add quality parts to the mix. As I've made it clear many times, I have yet to buy anything from CC because I've not yet bought a tube, and that is all he sells. I have, though, bought a FFT knob and it is top notch quality and function. And, as an added bonus, they have answered ALL of my emails within an hour or two of sending them, and the knob came within a couple of days of ordering. From what I've read, you cannot say the same about CC. I know that the kind of info I want when I come here for tips is good, accurate, tips based upon first hand knowledge. /rant

Interesting. Here is the same spring $2 cheaper: http://www.freedomfightertactical.com/order.php#cart_restore Apparently the Wolff spring sold by FFT has finished ends these days, even though the pic shows an unfinished spring. I've inquired about that and whether they had Ti tubes in stock because my indecisive butt may finally get off the fence and get a full Ti tube. Finally.

I certainly hope you took your question to Dave first, rather than come here and call into question one of the man's products in public for everyone to see, so he had a chance to rectify the problem, if there is a problem. Think if it was your business, how would you want a potential problem to be handled? Do it that way.

LAPD is going all M4 as time goes by. A huge endorsement.

____________________________

I have this button from GG&G. Three thumbs up.

I hate waiting. And I've held the spec Urbino. I'd buy it as is.

You know what - that looks great. Feels great when you shoot it? That is the question. I've not met a standard stock I like, yet. Good luck my friend.

If only there was an "Order Now" button after all of that. Sigh.

Well, get this, I didn't mean it to be a direct comment about Kip, more of a direct comment about people who come up with excuses for him. I'm sure Kip has his reasons for whatever delays there are and probably has excellent reasons for not sharing them at all times. But quite often members really go to great lengths to explain away what either 1) can't be explained away, 2) shouldn't be explained away, or 3) trying to explain away a situation with ridculous explanations. Most of which are mere speculations. I'm confident he is busy in the shop with lots of orders that have nothing to do with M4s. Most shops I'm familiar with have their hands on 10 or 12 projects at any given time, and they tend to work on what pays the bills. That explanation/speculation is better than anything else I've read around here (actually, some have speculated this very notion). I have extreme respect for military personnel, past and present, and for you to toss that in there like I'm being disrespectful is not appreciated.

Ah, that's nonsense. You are talking about a non-perishable product that people want - there is a demand for. Have those two things and you expand, no matter what everyone else is doing. That's just creating an excuse. Which quite a few people around here are good at.

I wonder..........

Looked at the pics of the bolt handle. Pretty snazzy. The main concern I would have is the size. I prefer the bigger size for 1) wearing gloves and 2) doing drills like select slug. Smaller handles are not as ideal for such considerations.

After my using it three or four times on this forum, the word "fanboy" is used by someone else.

Delusions of grandeur. Did you really think that prior to your FIRST post, this has never been discussed here? Wow. Just, wow.

This helps my point. Ok, I'll agree with you: we were debating. But I was debating and basing my points on facts. You were basing your points on opinions. Hence, my frustration. I have opinions, too. But they do no good in the face of reality, if reality does not support my opinion. Reality does not support your opinions, for the most part. A lot of crap has ruined this country. Lawyers have contributed. But a lot of factors have contributed. But most of the lawyers I know, I wouldn't squirt into a pan to save their butts. ...lil buddy

Near 4 months away from the point you chose to buy a full length tube and you still don't have one. But your money is gone. Wow. Just wow.

skeeter, thanks for trying to rise above it. I'm sorry to you if I personally offended you by using the words "stupid," "irrelevant," etc. To me, this is not personal towards you. I'm just stating facts. We all come here for facts. Whether it is about the legality of 922r and how to conform lawfully under it, to how to tinker with our guns, or where to buy our gear - we all congregate here primarily for one reason only: to gather information. We all offer different perspectives, we all know different things. So it is important for all of us to contribute what we know so we can all be more informed. As for me personally, I'm the most conservative person you could ever meet. But again, your questioning me about my political persuasion further demonstrates that you haven't yet comprehended that I do not advocate what I am telling the forum about. I'm just telling the forum how it is. I have no personal desire to promote it as "how it should be." Frankly, I don't like it either, at least to some extent. People should be liable for things they put out there for others to use. The problem isn't the lawsuits where there is justification. The problem is the lawsuits where people misused things but still try to attach the liability onto someone else under the guise of products liability.

Point taken on your final sentence. Its just difficult arguing with someone who has a difficulty providing a relevant argument, and who keeps repeating incorrect assumptions and applying them to me, as if I personally agree with, and even advocate, the theory behind everything I'm saying. Also, you may sign a waiver, or you may agree not to sue, whatever. But if the gun blows up and injures the person standing beside you, or you let someone else shoot your gun, the waiver is inapplicable. Same thing if you sell your gun to someone else and they are injured by it. Those people didn't agree to anything. Insurance is the way to go. And to get the part beyond "experimental" before offering it for sale to the public.

This is a public forum to discuss the issues people bring up. A potential issue with making parts is liability. It is a very relevant topic, and I'm quite confident that others here appreciate it. I think M1014 was talking about this the other day. Which is what got me thinking about it. Then they are just as stupid as you are. Maybe your fanboy friends will come along and cheerlead you on. I don't care. Just about 100% of what you have said is irrelevant. Congratulations.

No, but if I see someone who may do something to land their butt in a lot of trouble, I feel compelled to say something so they at least know that what they are doing could impact them in a negative way. I think a lot of people around here would appreciate someone telling them that what they are doing might be very bad for them. You can speak for everyone? How do you know everyone here knows the laws and who could be liable for what? Can you vouch for 100% of all the members here about what they know? Funny. I hope someday you never find yourself in legal trouble. But if you do, who will you call first? To help someone understand something they may not know about. Who made you admin? Who made you the person who knows what is best for everyone around here? You feel entitled to lie or not mention things that could get someone into hot water. You justify it with dreams of utopia and emotional rants. And your selfish desires to get your hands on something that you really don't need, at the possible expense of someone else and their family. Classy. Very classy. Fixed. You talk about "facts" but then ignore facts. Fact is, it is not my way of thinking. But it is reality and I accept it for what it is, as I cannot change it. You, on the other hand, think that whining about how it should be is going to make a difference. Products liability has existed for a long time. This isn't something that was just created over the last 30 years. Besides, this is another example of the lack of relevance of your post. This does not matter. What matters is how it is now. You are so emotional about it, you are making this personal. I am not sue happy. I did not create the law. I'm just telling you and others how it is. There are others around here who may want to know what I said. This isn't a forum to communicate with just skeeter. I'm sure nobody around here considers each post in depth to figure out if it will be skeeter-approved. Let me make this very clear - this - is - not - my - way - of - thinking. Period. I'm just telling it like it is. I'm not protecting you. And I don't see it as my job to protect anyone. But I can't in good conscience, allow someone to do something that might put them in big trouble, without at a minimum a few words of warning. By saying what I've said, I'm protecting any person making parts that you so selfishly want to get your hands on. I guarantee you, others are glad I've said what I've said. And you are making yourself look like an ignorant jerk. Quit while you are ahead.

None of this matters. None of it. You totally wasted your time typing it. In a courtroom, none of these considerations will matter, at all. Congratulations for typing a lot of crap that does not matter at all. There are two ways of looking at it. 1. I tell the truth and spoil it for you. 2. I don't say anything and/or lie and spoil it for the garage tinkerer who could wind up in heaps of trouble when a product he makes hurts someone. I have integrity. I'm not going to either 1) not say anything or 2) lie so someone else can be selfish about it. Products liability is very serious. If you are liable for making a defective product, it could ruin you. The guy making the pistons could be financially ruined, and his family left in ruin, with children perhaps, so you can get your beloved 922r compliant pistons. Sounds pretty selfish to me. I don't want to see that happen to anyone around here, that is, being ruined by a lawsuit. And if it does, I prefer they know the truth before getting into it, rather than not saying anything or lying to the person for the selfish motives of the others. And I've not ruined it for anyone by saying what I've said. The garage tinkerer can buy insurance to cover products liability. Properly insured, I'd sell gas pistons if I knew how to make them. But, without insurance, making and selling something so important to the functioning of the gun is pure stupidity. In fact, making anything for a firearm...anything, without insurance, is pure stupidity. I mean, some of the things I read here and in other gun forums is just pure nonsense. No wonder so many people find their butts in a sling. And skeeter, I get some of what you are trying to say. But it is totally detached from reality, and from logic and reason. Leave the utopian dreams to the emotional liberal ideologue. The world works the way it works and your emotional whining about how you see it isn't doing anything other than getting your panties in a knot. And for no reason.