StrangerDanger

I was surprised too. I think I'll pick up another Geisselle hammer. Seems it's heat treatment is superior to OEM and FFT.

Awesome pictorial. I'll give this a try on an old stock.

This is going to be good.

I'd go with the M2 for gun games. Lighter is faster.

http://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/32332-Benelli-M4-Complete-Trigger-Group-Assembly-Guide?highlight=Trigger+disassembly this guide will show you exactly how to swap the safety.

benelliwerkes, Any way to get the sling plate out without destroying the stock?

The bolt carrier isn't cycling all the way to the rear then. It's a low recoil issue. Sometimes a break in will cure the issue. Sometimes not. A lot depends on how you're holding the weapon.

If AVA is interested in taking on another project, I came up with a unit that would provide for ambidextrous rear QD sling mounts for the fixed pistol grip and field stock. It would be fairly inexpensive, since it could be adapted to use the existing IWC sling mounts. Basically, you'd take the butt pad off, then remove the nut. We'd have to make a bracket that would seat between the nut and the Stock Retaining Piece. The bracket would have two wings. One on the left and right side of the stock. These wings of the bracket would have the half inch hole cut through the wing. The bracket would also have spots for the two anti-rotation screws. The end user would then have to drill a half inch hole through the stock in the appropriate location. The end user could then decide if they wanted just one or two of the QD sockets. The nut would then be reinstalled to hold the assembly in place. The hardest part would be drilling the holes in the appropriate location on the stock. When installed on the weapon, the sling points would be fixed to the receiver extension and have no chance of pulling free. I tried to get the existing sling plate out. Even with some heat. No dice. Not without destroying the stock unfortunately.

Type A: Here is a link to the IWC mount I used. It wasn't intended for the Benelli M4, but it works perfectly. http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/qd-rotation-limited-buttstock-sling-mount-n-slot/ I like the idea of epoxying or JB Welding a piece of metal into the stock. This could be something as thin as sheet metal from the bottom of an old flat cookie sheet. The larger the surface area the better. The sheet metal would also conform to the inside of the stock. The ideal route would be to get the Noveske QD sling plate into the stock. I'm going to screw around with my old pistol grip stock and see what is required to get it apart.

Was the shell on the elevator or still in the magazine tube?

I like the idea of installing the mounts ambidextrously in the stock. I'd probably do it myself. It's always scary modifying a part. Especially a hard or expensive to get part like the field stock. Once you pick a spot where you want the mounts, center punch it. Then start with a small drill bit and work your way up to the necessary size for the mount to pass through. When I did mine, I used a Black and Decker drill bit set that had intervals from 1/64 to 1/2 in 1/64 increments. I didn't use every single one, but I used probably eight of them. Particularly the last few bits where you're removing a lot of material quickly. Stepping up will help keep the bit from wandering from where you placed your mark. Using a drill press would be better, but I didn't even have that. I think I got the IWC mount for the A1/A2 stock. I wish IWC had a chart with more specific sizes. Calling them would probably be the safest option. There is some adjustment in the unit to adapt to varying thicknesses. Basically as you tighten those two allen head screws on the inside, they act as stand off devices that pull the outer lock ring against the side of the stock. Expect that lock ring to be a super-***** to install. I think I even bled on mine. It's like a split key ring, but tiny and sharp on the edge. Expect tightening those allen head screws to be a ***** too. Getting the wrench inside the stock is going to be rough. The closer you are to the rear of the stock, the easier the install will be. I would use the IWC unit instead of Uncle Mikes. I don't believe Uncle Mikes have the limited rotation stops. They help a lot when you are indexing your sling points so the weapon hangs properly. The IWC mounts are almost completely flush with the surface. If it was me, I would use resin epoxy around each QD socket on the inside of the stock to solidify the mounts in position. This will help prevent them from rotating. You can get the epoxy for like 5 bucks at Walmart. The type you mix the two compounds together works well. It doesn't have to be pretty inside the stock. Just mix it up, and apply it with a Q-Tip thickly around the mount. The epoxy may add some strength to the stock as well. I'm still concerned about attaching a sling point to a plastic stock. The butt pad are philips screws inside on both the pistol grip and collapsible stock. I would assume they are the same in the field stock. You'll want a little oil on your driver (or even some spit) and work it in until it makes contact with the bit. A lot of joke material here... Don't use a Magnabit, or you'll lose it in the hole. A fixed driver is what you want. Be careful with the threads on the field and pistol grip stock. They're simply screwed directly into the plastic stock. The collapsible stock is a little better in this regard since they are actually machined screw holes into the aluminum body. The screws will not come all the way out of the butt pad either. Just unscrew them a ways, and work on the other one.

I looked into this more. I dug out my old OEM fire control group (FCG) and disassembled both trigger packs. I compared all four hammers closely. The OEM hammer shows the same deformation as the FFT hammer. Of all the hammers, the Geisselle shows the least amount of deformation. The only issue encountered with the Geisselle hammer is its odd behavior when trying to cock the hammer with the weapon on safe. For some reason, Geisselle changed the hammer profile so that it contacts the trigger more on the downward stroke. The Geisselle offers the largest surface area for engagement of the sear as well. I'd say that the Geisselle hammer is the best of the three. The hammer always makes contact with the disconnector and polishes the finish off. That is present in all samples I have. The hammer compresses the disconnector during each stroke. Basically they're metal on metal rubbing during each cycle until the hammer slips past the disconnector's sear. Take a look at the following pictures to decide for yourself. Also, if you open the image into a new window, they'll be much bigger.

Here is what Todd said about the issue: Good to hear from you. Yes, such wear can happen but it's purely cosmetic. We've tested these extensively, and they have been in the field now for two years on LEO, MIL, training weapons, professional and enthusiasts guns. Not one time has any one of the three trigger components been returned for any sort of wear and/or performance issues, for two years. Thanks, Todd FFT

Yeah, I'm using the AVA for the front now. I ended up making a few options for the front QD mount prior. The installation for this QD socket would be the same through the side of the stock. You'd just check for clearance on the inside, drill a half in hole where you want it. Then fasten the hardware. You could easily set the QD socket behind where the current sling loops sit. Reference photograph: As a right handed shooter, I would put the rear connector here on the right side of the stock. That way the sling goes over your neck and attaches to the outside of the weapon. This helps pull the stock into your body rather than having the weapon hang away from the sling points. It really helps when shouldering the weapon. Before, I would struggle with getting the stock shouldered into the pocket of my arm since the sling on the left side would bunch up between the stock and my shoulder. I have some pictures of M4 with the collapsible stock, but the concept should be the same with the field stock. I'm using a Blue Force Gear VCAS padded sling with sewn in QD connectors.

The Geisselle hammer never experienced this. So it's an option to use with the FFT trigger and disconnector. Mine may be a bad run from the beginning. I never bothered to ask Todd about it. It could also just be the soft nickel finish being damaged by the impact points. I'll shoot Todd an email, and see what he says.

I'm not sure if any changes have been made to the production runs. The disconnector doesn't show any wear at all. The only wear issue I see is with the hammer. I'm not sure if it is just the finish wearing through, or if it is actually deforming the metal. I posted a few pictures of the hammer face in the other thread. So far the trigger group has been completely reliable. I keep an eye on the hammer to see if the condition gets worse over time.