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mattmcg

Looking to better understand the M4 loading/charging mechanism

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I recently picked up a new Benelli M4 and am a little confounded as to why the gun operates as it does. It seems to be rather complicated in how to load and in what configuration it allows reloading.

 

For example, if I have the bolt in battery with the hammer in the decocked position, the riser is locked and doesn't allow a user to add any shells. Now if I charge the handle cocking the hammer, it will allow me to load shells until I press the small lever with the red dot which locks the mechanism again.

 

Isn't this all a bit complicated and limiting when you are simply attempting to reload? Perhaps I'm being a bit dense here but what is the logic for how I'm supposed to operate this thing?

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I recently picked up a new Benelli M4 and am a little confounded as to why the gun operates as it does. It seems to be rather complicated in how to load and in what configuration it allows reloading.

 

For example, if I have the bolt in battery with the hammer in the decocked position, the riser is locked and doesn't allow a user to add any shells. Now if I charge the handle cocking the hammer, it will allow me to load shells until I press the small lever with the red dot which locks the mechanism again.

 

Isn't this all a bit complicated and limiting when you are simply attempting to reload? Perhaps I'm being a bit dense here but what is the logic for how I'm supposed to operate this thing?

 

You're not dense, you're just used to pump shotguns clearly.

 

The idea is that you load a round into the chamber FIRST while the BCG is back and the gun is empty. You then release the BCG, which lets you load additional rounds into the tube. This way, you always have a round in the chamber so you can use it if you need it. It's superior to a pump in that with pumps you have to load rounds into the tube, then pump, in order to accomplish the same thing. The m4 is faster getting a round in the chamber when you have an empty gun. If the bolt is closed, it always allows loading of more shells.

 

The setup is also designed so that you can change the shell that's in the chamber without affecting the shells in the mag tube. It works better than the pump way.

 

The small lever is there to reset the system on command. It allows the BCG to be locked back regardless of how whether the chamber is loaded, not loaded, rounds in the tube, no rounds in the tube, etc. On the next BCG cycle, the bolt will remain locked back, allowing you to manually load or change rounds if you desire.

 

Overall, it gives you much more options and flexibility, not to mention speed, over the standard pump system. It just takes some getting used to, as it is rather different.

 

Once you get good with it, you'll realize how awesome it is.

Edited by Duggan
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Guest cleefurd

Duggan... say something WRONG now and again so I can flame you for once.

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You should have been around for my posts about hunting and deer, I got lots of people riled up and hating on me.

Edited by Duggan

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Very good explanation.

 

The CRL or Cartridge Release Lever ( the small blade with red dot the , when depressed will allow a cartridge into the "ghost chamber") allows the Operator to perform certain administrative functions like loading or unloading and operator functions like "select slug rollout".

 

Simply in the field if you are loaded with a specific ammo, be it Buck or bird, and the situation turns where you need an ammo for a greater distance, the weapon is easily "reloaded" with your new cartridge without any function from the mag tube.

 

From a safety standpoint the actual chamber can be manipulated without accessing the mag tube. so the chamber can be "downloaded" back to the mag tube safely.

 

The weapon system is designed with an operator in field conditions in mind. Whether it's hunting or hunting.

 

Mg

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Great replies guys! I greatly appreciate it. Yes, my experience is with pump shotguns (good call Duggan) and the ability to work the chamber elements versus the tube is pretty unique. I knew there would be a better explanation thus the reason for the post.

 

I guess I just need to go through a few loading unloading scenarios that require some imagination to truly benefit and learn from the unique setup in the M4.

 

I'll report back (and perhaps post more questions) once I get a better hang of it.

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The only real drawback of the system is that it's kind of a pain in the ass to UNLOAD the shells ... unless you are discharging them :)

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Well, now I have to differ with Duggan on a few of his statements concerning the operation of pump shotguns!

Duggan says:" ... with pumps you have to load rounds in the tube, then pump, in order to accomplish the same thing" (in regards to loading a round in the chamber first so one can use it at need).

 

Also, " ... it works better then the pump way" (in regards to changing the shell in the chamber without affecting the shells in the mag tube).

 

I guess Duggan is not familiar with the Mossberg 500 action (also 590) that has been out there since 1961!

 

As to the first statement, the Mossberg 500 pump allows the shooter to actuate the Action Lock Lever (slide release) on the bottom left side of the receiver in order to slide the bolt to the rear and unlock the action. The shooter can then load a shell through the ejection port onto the shell carrier and slide the forearm forward to chamber a round. The shooter can then load the mag tube or not, as the case may be.

 

With the Mossberg 500 action, the shell in the chamber can easily be removed by actuating the Action Lock Lever and pulling back on the forearm to eject the round. If there are rounds in the mag and the shooter just wants to remove the chambered round, the Action Lock Lever can be pushed and the forearm pulled back slowly to bring the shell on to the shell elevator so the round can be removed. The bolt can then be pushed forward into battery on an empty chamber (or, another type of shell loaded to replace the one removed) without disturbing the rounds in the mag.

 

Additionally, the shells in the mag can be removed individually without removing the shell in the chamber by turning the action over so that the trigger is facing you. Place your thumb inside the loading port and depress the cartridge stop to remove each shell.

 

I also like the feature that the action can be put on safe at ANY time, even before any round is loaded. There are many shotguns without this feature.

 

I bring this up in the interest of being accurate. There is a reason the the Mossberg 500 shotgun is so popular besides price! They have to be good to be sold to LEO's, Military and civilians in the thousands each year.

 

I love all shotguns and have many in my safe, (M4 plus others). I have developed and will soon bring to market a new type of extended choke tube for shotguns (http://www.blackborechokes.com) if you care to look. I am not prejudiced against any type of shotgun, although I have my preferences.

GTP

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you wanna better understand your own Benelli,,read your manual,,work with some blank shells then go shoot it.duggan is plenty smart on the subject but he nor anyone else can do it for you,,

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You're not dense, you're just used to pump shotguns clearly.

 

The idea is that you load a round into the chamber FIRST while the BCG is back and the gun is empty. You then release the BCG, which lets you load additional rounds into the tube. This way, you always have a round in the chamber so you can use it if you need it. It's superior to a pump in that with pumps you have to load rounds into the tube, then pump, in order to accomplish the same thing. The m4 is faster getting a round in the chamber when you have an empty gun. If the bolt is closed, it always allows loading of more shells.

 

The setup is also designed so that you can change the shell that's in the chamber without affecting the shells in the mag tube. It works better than the pump way.

 

The small lever is there to reset the system on command. It allows the BCG to be locked back regardless of how whether the chamber is loaded, not loaded, rounds in the tube, no rounds in the tube, etc. On the next BCG cycle, the bolt will remain locked back, allowing you to manually load or change rounds if you desire.

 

Overall, it gives you much more options and flexibility, not to mention speed, over the standard pump system. It just takes some getting used to, as it is rather different.

 

Once you get good with it, you'll realize how awesome it is.

 

The nova does the same thing as the M4. You can load a shell in the chamber, close the bolt, then add rounds to the mag. You can also eject the round from the chamber without having a round from the mag come up.

 

Other than speed, the m4 doesn't have a lot on the Nova and Supernova.

 

Pump guns are easier the understand, more reliable, and In the Nova's case, its chambered for 3 1/2. You can also unload the mag. without chambering a round.

 

 

I'm not knocking the M4, I just don't know where your info on pump shotgun.

Edited by Novaking

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Ok I'm new here but I'm not new, so to speak.

 

GTPSC - You're off and on in your statement. Any pump shotgun will allow you, if you are precise enough to eject a shell or do a rollout without actuating the cartridge release. The problem is that under pressure, your fine motor skills are the first to go and you will have trouble performing that manipulation. The M4 is designed to circumvent that problem and allow faster selection.

 

The following are opinions... Everyone has preferences, my philosphy is simple... Can it to the job consistently and accurately? Is your skill level actual or perceived? Answer those honestly and many weapon systems fit the bill.

 

Duggan - Overall, it gives you much more options and flexibility, not to mention speed, over the standard pump system. It just takes some getting used to, as it is rather different.

 

Novaking - Pump guns are easier the understand, more reliable, and In the Nova's case, its chambered for 3 1/2. You can also unload the mag. without chambering a round.

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MikeG, my point escaped you entirely. I was using the Mossberg as an example of a widely popular shotgun with a particular feature that lets the pump (in this case a Mossberg 500) do the things that Duggan said it could not. I am not calling into question which gun I would rather have in a fire fight. That is for another discussion.

GTPSC

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Sorry, I never meant to suggest that ALL pump shotguns are limited in what they can do, or how they do it.

 

I don't have time to go into detail, but I have had a mossberg 590 as my trunkgun for years, and I've used a dozen or so 870's over the years. I am familiar with their mechanics, they can do the same thing just differently in most cases.

 

Either way, my post was not meant to put down pump shotguns or even to talk about pump shotguns, it was a post on how to use the m4 mechanics properly. I was only using pump shotgun references as, well, references.

 

Bedtime.

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Here's an example from one of my last years Quail hunting walks. I was using my beloved Short Stock 20 guage Monty, S90 M1, with the cheap Wally World 7/8 ounce load in 7.5 shot (Winchester loads).

I hunt by myself and don't use a dog. I was walking next to a field of tall browned out grass and just came around a bend in the dirt path and spotted a Pheasent also walking in the warm afternoon sun about 30 feet in front of me. The pheasent turned to my left and ducked into the grass as I pulled back the bolt of my Monty, ejecting the 7/8 oz. load onto the ground. As I quickly stepped into the grass to cut the Pheasent off, I slipped a heavy 1 0z. load of number 5 into the chamber and let the bolt slam home. At that instant the Pheasent rose out of the grass about 15 yards in front of me sqawking loudly. I had my Monty up in a flash and fired bringing the rooster done hard.

I did the shotshell change on the run without looking, as I was trying to find and cut off the Pheasent. And yes, I went back and picked up the live 20 guauge shell I had ejected on the path.

Love that Monty! :)

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Here's an example from one of my last years Quail hunting walks. I was using my beloved Short Stock 20 guage Monty, S90 M1, with the cheap Wally World 7/8 ounce load in 7.5 shot (Winchester loads).

 

I hunt by myself and don't use a dog. I was walking next to a field of tall browned out grass and just came around a bend in the dirt path and spotted a Pheasent also walking in the warm afternoon sun about 30 feet in front of me. The pheasent turned to my left and ducked into the grass as I pulled back the bolt of my Monty, ejecting the 7/8 oz. load onto the ground. As I quickly stepped into the grass to cut the Pheasent off, I slipped a heavy 1 0z. load of number 5 into the chamber and let the bolt slam home. At that instant the Pheasent rose out of the grass about 15 yards in front of me sqawking loudly. I had my Monty up in a flash and fired bringing the rooster done hard.

 

I did the shotshell change on the run without looking, as I was trying to find and cut off the Pheasent. And yes, I went back and picked up the live 20 guauge shell I had ejected on the path.

Love that Monty! :)

 

Hmm, What does that have to do with anything. My Novas will do the same thing.

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Ok I'm new here but I'm not new, so to speak.

 

GTPSC - You're off and on in your statement. Any pump shotgun will allow you, if you are precise enough to eject a shell or do a rollout without actuating the cartridge release. The problem is that under pressure, your fine motor skills are the first to go and you will have trouble performing that manipulation. The M4 is designed to circumvent that problem and allow faster selection.

 

The following are opinions... Everyone has preferences, my philosphy is simple... Can it to the job consistently and accurately? Is your skill level actual or perceived? Answer those honestly and many weapon systems fit the bill.

 

Duggan - Overall, it gives you much more options and flexibility, not to mention speed, over the standard pump system. It just takes some getting used to, as it is rather different.

 

Novaking - Pump guns are easier the understand, more reliable, and In the Nova's case, its chambered for 3 1/2. You can also unload the mag. without chambering a round.

 

 

Ok,

 

Novas are chambered for 3 1/2, fact not opinion.

 

 

Novas can unload without chambering a round, fact not opinion.

 

Nova's can release the shell in the chamber without chambering a round from the mag. tube., Fact not opinion.

 

Novas are more reliable. Well maybe you don't understand reliable. This means that Nova Shotguns can fire and cycle ALL 12 GAUGE SHELLS. Most autos cannot., Fact not opinion.

 

Pumps are easier to understand. Most of the time pumps have fewer parts than autos. (minus Benelli interia driven autos)., More opinion than fact.

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Reliable

1 : suitable or fit to be relied on : dependable

2 : giving the same result on successive trials

 

Pretty much describes the M4, ask an Operator, OK - My answer is Yes.

 

 

It's obvious that you prefer the Nova, I'm sure that's the reason why you named yourself "Novaking". That aside, the mechanical functioning of the Nova was not the original poster's question. The post was then hijacked by your opinion, not by the answer he came to the forum seeking.

 

It's obvious by you're continuing posting that you're pretty uptight about your opinions / skill /experience level, so go for an unbiased answer, it helps the most. Don't bother to respond, I've moved on.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Grasso

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Reliable

1 : suitable or fit to be relied on : dependable

2 : giving the same result on successive trials

 

Pretty much describes the M4, ask an Operator, OK - My answer is Yes.

 

 

It's obvious that you prefer the Nova, I'm sure that's the reason why you named yourself "Novaking". That aside, the mechanical functioning of the Nova was not the original poster's question. The post was then hijacked by your opinion, not by the answer he came to the forum seeking.

 

It's obvious by you're continuing posting that you're pretty uptight about your opinions / skill /experience level, so go for an unbiased answer, it helps the most. Don't bother to respond, I've moved on.

 

Mike

 

First, My post is based on a post about the ''pump shotgun". Nothing more. Second post was reponding to your post about my opinion. I don't think that is hijacking but if I did I'm sorry.

 

I named my self Novaking because "king" wasn't taken, and yes I own a few Nova's. I don't perfer novas over and m4. I couldn't afford a m4 if I perfered it over the Nova. (have kids).

 

You posting back with your opinion, (trying to knock me) must mean (in MY OPINION) that your pretty uptight yourself. If you are worried about my hiijacking post from the orginal poster, Then why did you repond .

 

 

anything esle you need to know, maybe just ask, Instead of making your own opinion.

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carefull novaking or you will end up on volunteers list of most hated with me and Duggan and tucker, we made his list

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carefull novaking or you will end up on volunteers list of most hated with me and Duggan and tucker, we made his list

 

 

I just saw that. I'm jealous!!

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o dont hate the player hate the game :D keep up the good info we all have a lot to learn , but dont singe any hairs allong the way :eek:

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