Pressure on M4 Shell Stop

[RPC]

I recently switched the HD ammo in my M4 from 00 buck to 04 buck. Even though they’re both 2 3/4 Federal Premium, the 04 buck shells are apparently just enough shorter that I can now fit 7 shells in my ti CC mag tube whereas of the 00 buck I could only fit 6 in the mag. 
 

While the 7th round of 04 buck does clear the shell stop, its just barely and I can only shove it further into the mag tube by 1/8”-1/4” and releasing the stack of shells back onto the shell stop seems to put quite a bit of pressure on it. 
 

Am I at risk of doing any damage to the shell stop by leaving it so tightly loaded, or am I overthinking this and if 7 shells fit, that’s the end of it?

[StrangerDanger]

That's about normal for the shells. The 7th round barely fits in most cases. Mines left loaded all the time for about a decade now with no negative effects.

 

 

[RPC]

Appreciate it, SD.

[Birdog19]

18 hours ago, StrangerDanger said:

Mines left loaded all the time for about a decade now with no negative effects.

 

 

What about the effects on the trigger and firing pin springs if left cocked and loaded as a HD weapon?  I've read some older posts on the subject of spring compression and fatigue through compression cycles and wondered if anyone that provided their experience a few years back has any new or different thoughts on the subject.

[StrangerDanger]

On modern springs, they wear out due to compression cycles. The only time this isn’t true is if the spring is over compressed or someone stretches the spring. All bets are off at that point and the damage is done. 
 

My hammer is always cocked. I personally don’t like closing the bolt or slide of any firearm and pressing the trigger out of habit. The M4 I’ve had since 2004 has been pretty much cocked the entire time since then with no ill effects. 

[remarkable]

Your observation in wise, "  1/8”-1/4” and releasing the stack of shells back onto the shell stop seems to put quite a bit of pressure on it. "  I replace several carrier latches on Benelli's every year, most of which have extended magazine tubes.  You will note the SBE II and the Etho's has the newest design, carrier latches which are two piece.  You have not thought about the pressure that the next shell in your magazine slams against the carrier latch after the first is released.

With that being said I have seen new Benelli & Franchi's with carrier latches bent that are sent back for "Adjustments".

[RPC]

6 minutes ago, remarkable said:

I replace several carrier latches on Benelli's every year, most of which have extended magazine tubes.

Interesting. Seems to be the exception rather than the rule based on responses above. 

Out of curiosity, what symptoms does one experience which leads to replacement of the carrier latch? 

[remarkable]

The difference being I have worked on more than 800 Benelli's.  When multiple shells are released from the magazine when cycling, this is a sure sign of a carrier latch that is bent out of tolerance.  I have replaced some carrier latches that are just work out from hundreds are shells being loaded into the magazine tube.

[RPC]

32 minutes ago, remarkable said:

When multiple shells are released from the magazine when cycling, this is a sure sign of a carrier latch that is bent out of tolerance. 

Good copy, something for me to keep an eye out for throughout the life of my own M4. 

Appreciate it. 

[DailyEDC]

So I'm assuming this applies to storing pistol mags all the way full?  What a huge relief.  I have like 20 full pistol magazines that haven't been touched in years so I was just about to order magazine spring replacements.

[StrangerDanger]

5 hours ago, DailyEDC said:

So I'm assuming this applies to storing pistol mags all the way full?  What a huge relief.  I have like 20 full pistol magazines that haven't been touched in years so I was just about to order magazine spring replacements.

Correct. I have around 300 loaded AR mags that have been loaded for 15 years. I’ll pull them out and use them with no issues. Same with various pistol mags from quality manufacturers like Glock/Beretta/Sig and so on. I’d only look to replace springs if a magazine starts having failures. 

[RPC]

3 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Correct. I have around 300 loaded AR mags that have been loaded for 15 years. I’ll pull them out and use them with no issues. Same with various pistol mags from quality manufacturers like Glock/Beretta/Sig and so on. I’d only look to replace springs if a magazine starts having failures. 

Seconded. I’ve got tens of Glock mags, some that have been loaded for 10-15 years (having been shot in between but they stay loaded in wait), and I’ve only ever had to replace mag springs when I start to get FtF, and it’s always on the most used mags, not necessarily the oldest. 
 

That said, I just purchased a nearly new Glock from a private party and ordered new springs throughout, including mag springs, because their cycle count & general life before me is unknown. 

[StrangerDanger]

Yep. You never know who screwed with something before you got it. Lots of old men spring stretchers out there. Stretching it might fix the issue for a short time, but the spring is damaged and will return to set in short order. 

[RPC]

You 100% nailed it. The quoted round count for the weapon I bought was “~200”, and it looks it, so I really wasn’t thinking about replacing anything initially. But boy when I loaded each mag for the first time one was 2x as hard to load than the other one. I stripped each down thinking maybe I’d find an aftermarket spring in one but nope, they were both factory but someone had just stretched a couple of the coils in one of them. After that the designed spring rate will be forever compromised. 

Not knowing what kind of other amateur gunsmithing had been carried out, I placed the order for all new springs and am going through the weapon with a fine tooth comb looking for other tweaked parts (“a little polishing here, a little file work there will produce X amazing result“)...

First private-party weapon purchase I’ve made, already learned a TON about doing them.

[StrangerDanger]

“A little dremel action on those seers to polish em up!”

Fortunately springs on this platform are easy to replace. Lately I’ve been getting odd ball guns to fix like Winchester model 100’s. What a nightmare gun with minimal parts to purchase for repairs. Work through one problem and find another. Slowly working through 50 years of Bubba. 

[adalah]

On 1/25/2020 at 5:59 PM, DailyEDC said:

So I'm assuming this applies to storing pistol mags all the way full?  What a huge relief.  I have like 20 full pistol magazines that haven't been touched in years so I was just about to order magazine spring replacements.

+1

Edited February 8, 2020 by adalah

[jak]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:51 PM, remarkable said:

The difference being I have worked on more than 800 Benelli's.  When multiple shells are released from the magazine when cycling, this is a sure sign of a carrier latch that is bent out of tolerance.  I have replaced some carrier latches that are just work out from hundreds are shells being loaded into the magazine tube.

if i touch the side button on my m2 it will drop two shells. if i use the drop latch it will feed one. the shell stop bent ?

 

 

 

[remarkable]

Using the cartridge drop lever will release one shell from the magazine, using the carrier latch button, no shells should be released, if so your Carrier Latch is out of spec or bent.

Let mew know how I can assist.