Crio Or Back-bore Barrel ?

[KG22122]

hi,

I Write From Greece And It's The First Time That I Use A Forum For My Questions.

Another Matter Is My English So, Please, Forgive Mistakes That I Will

Make.

I Am About To Buy A New Shotgun And The Recoil System Is Not A Matter. The Barrel Technology Is. In Your Opinion A Back - Bored Barrel Will Pattern Better Or A Crio Barrel ? Are Back-bored Barrels As Good As They Describe Or There Is Not Much Difference, Finally ? I Already Have Two Browning's. An A5 And A B 2ooo, Both Very Good Guns. But.. I Like Benelli's !! I Have AN M4. A Fantastic Gun But Not For Hunting.

Can You Help Me ? Thank You..

[mudhen]

I have found that the under-bored .719-.723 Benelli barrels (Crio or not) will tend to pattern smaller shot pretty well. If lead was still legal for everything, I would shoot only Benelli products.

 

I do really like over-bored and back-bored barrels though. It seems like they will pattern larger shot, like steel BB's, well. I have several Brownings that pattern large steel shot very well.

 

But each barrel has it's own set of requirements that can make each very effective. By selecting certain choke and shell combinations, I can make both barrels very effective.

[tucker301]

I have nothing to add to mudhen's comments.

I would like to say, "Hello and welcome."

 

Your English is better than that of some of the Americans here, so don't worry too much about that.

[KG22122]

Thank You, Both, Very Much !!!

 

In Greece Lead Is Legal For Everything. Until Now..

I Search For This Matter Almost Two Weeks And I Have The Feelling That A Lot Of American Hunters, Turkey, Dove,Goose, Duck Etc Hunters, Use Benelli Shotguns In Very Harsh Conditions Without Any Major Problems. I See That Browning's, Beretta's And Other Major Brands Do Not Share The Same Credit Among Hunters. Not Shooters Generally. Do I Make A Wrong Evaluation Here? And if Not Can You Tell Me The Reason ? Is It The Marketing Of The Product, Any Product, The Overall Technology, Personal Preferences, Confidence, Or Sth Else ?

 

[OldFlick]

I have had Benelli, Berretta & Browning barrels worked on many ways and never saw and improvement. This was w/buckshot 90% of the time. I have seen greater differences between two guns of same make/model than any impovements from custom work.

[mudhen]

Thank You, Both, Very Much !!!

 

In Greece Lead Is Legal For Everything. Until Now..

I Search For This Matter Almost Two Weeks And I Have The Feelling That A Lot Of American Hunters, Turkey, Dove,Goose, Duck Etc Hunters, Use Benelli Shotguns In Very Harsh Conditions Without Any Major Problems. I See That Browning's, Beretta's And Other Major Brands Do Not Share The Same Credit Among Hunters. Not Shooters Generally. Do I Make A Wrong Evaluation Here? And if Not Can You Tell Me The Reason ? Is It The Marketing Of The Product, Any Product, The Overall Technology, Personal Preferences, Confidence, Or Sth Else ?

 

Ok, I'll go out on a limb here and agree with your statement.

 

While I love my Brownings and others love their Berettas, I think Benellis are a much better made product.

 

Benellis are more like a professional tool. Well made and easy to use. Not perfect, but better than most.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my Browning Golds and Silvers, but I think I could break them if I wanted to. If I took my Browning Silver to Iowa for spring snow goose shooting with no limits and no plugs, and used some cheap off-brand of 3.5" BB's, I don't think the gun would hold up long.

 

Very generally speaking, Benellis are better made than most other brands of semi-auto shotguns.

 

Just my take...

[KG22122]

Thank You All !! If Somebody Has Sth To Add Is More Than Welcome..

I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION. IF THE 3 1/2 SHELL WAS NOT AN ISSUE, WHICH GUN SHALL I PREFER. THE M2 OR THE SBE II DUE TO THE CRIO BARREL OR SOME OTHER REASONS?

[Full Bore]

The M2 and SBE II are both Crio barrels. Not an issue there.

I prefer the SBE II simply for its ease of take down and cleaning and although I don't shoot a lot of the 3.5 inchers its always a plus to be able too if needed.

[KG22122]

THIS IS FROM THE http://www.benelli.it/Articoli/Armi.asp?ID=72 SITE

LOOK AT THE DESCRIPTION THEY HAVE FOR THE M2 AND THE SBE II

...

The Benelli M2 is the shotgun with the unmistakable styling given to the shape of the trigger guard group, aggressive, versatile and totally reliable under all conditions.

 

The Benelli Comfortech™ System patent reduces uplift and shortens the time to get back on target, guaranteeing unparalleled performance and absolute comfort when firing, to make the M2 Benelli shotgun suitable for a variety of uses, from Police forces to personal defence, from hunting to target shootin

 

---------------------------------------

SUPER BLACK EAGLE II

comfort when firing, thanks to the exclusive Comfortech™patent.

 

 

The recoil pad is in Technogel® anatomically designed to increase the surface area in contact with the shoulder and to decrease the force of impact the moment the gun is fired.

Grip and fore-end are finished with the “Air Touch” checkering for total control of the firearm.

The Cryogenic treatment ensures perfect precision and stability when firing and improves the working life of the barrel.

 

*****

AS YOU MAY SEE THERE IS NO REFERENCE OF THE CRIO BARREL IN THE M2. MAYBE CRIO BARRELS FOR THE

M2 ARE FOR AMERICA ONLY, OR MAYBE I AM WRONG. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

[KG22122]

I Just Asked The Importer. The M2 Comes In Greece With The

Regular Barrel. Not The Crio Barrel.

[HOGWILD]

amazing how you loose your accent from one post to the next and you start using non caps on every word in all but one post? you sure your name is not JOHHNY36? i thin he was geek also?

[KG22122]

I Will Try To Explain.

[KG22122]

I Write In Capitals Because Most Of The Time I Write In A Hurry And Its Easier And Quicker For Me. Sometimes Although I Write In Capitals When I Save The

Text It Takes A form Like This One Now. I Don't Know Why.

I Think That Being In A Hurry And A Foreigner Justifies My Accent To. I Am Not The Person You Mention And I Try Hard Enough To Place My Questions Clearly . If I Do Sth Impolite Please Tell Me And I Will Change It.

Thank You.

[HOGWILD]

no your polite and all but we had a fellow on a while back that likes to use large purple fonts and was hung up on bore measurements and he was also from Greece. You my friend do very well with your comprehension of the English language, i am from Arkansas and you are probably better than I! No disrespect intended i some time have a way with words that offends people but i have gotten over it!

[henkka82]

I Just Asked The Importer. The M2 Comes In Greece With The

Regular Barrel. Not The Crio Barrel.

 

that is a surprise.. i live in finland and all the m2 benelli's are with crio barrel..almost every other models are the same as in states. except raffaello and some crio series..

[KG22122]

Thank you Hogwild ! I was not offended.

A few things that I have to mention. Here in Greece the population of hunters and

shooters is half the population of hunters and shooters in only one state of the U.S.

Rifles and handguns are not allowed. It's easy to see why I ask these questions in an American

forum. You have a lot of experience.

You,also, easily realize that your knowledge and my knowledge are two things you can't compare.

It's not bad to seek knowledge, in my opinion and especially knowledge that comes from

the experience of many different, good, people who have access to a huge variety of samples in the subject you , I, are interested in.

As for using purple , blue etc colors when writing, what can I tell you ? I don't like it at all, but nobody is perfect.

Anyway, this is not an excuse..

[KG22122]

that is a surprise.. i live in finland and all the m2 benelli's are with crio barrel..almost every other models are the same as in states. except raffaello and some crio series..

 

Thank you..

In Greece the M2 is imported without the CRIO barrel. Who knows why ..

[henkka82]

Thank you..

In Greece the M2 is imported without the CRIO barrel. Who knows why ..

 

WHAT!! you can't have rifles or pistols!!? that is crazy..in finland i can have rifle or shotgun license in 20 minutes. pistol license take's about 2 weeks to get and you need to be a member of shooting club.

but we are not a loud to carry a full-automatic rifles or anything like that. semi-autos are ok.

in Finland we have about 5 million people and about 300 thousand hunters.

 

Henrik

[KG22122]

WHAT!! you can't have rifles or pistols!!? that is crazy..in finland i can have rifle or shotgun license in 20 minutes. pistol license take's about 2 weeks to get and you need to be a member of shooting club.

but we are not a loud to carry a full-automatic rifles or anything like that. semi-autos are ok.

in Finland we have about 5 million people and about 300 thousand hunters.

 

Henrik

 

It's the truth..They are not allowed for hunting. Only in shooting clubs.But it does not bother me very much. What bothers me is that Greek importers don't bother at all to

improve the variety of the merchandise they import.

[timb99]

In my opinion:

 

Crio treatment and back boring are a waste of money, unless your barrel throws truly horrible patterns, in which case you should get a different gun.

 

The only way to tell what kind of patterns your gun throws is to do a lot of testing. A program called "shotgun insight" is very helpful in this regard.

 

On the other hand, most shotguns thoow acceptable patterns for hunting, and will do all you need.

 

The most important thing is to practice, practice, practice on clay targets until you're good.

[mudhen]

most shotguns thoow acceptable patterns for hunting, and will do all you need.

 

Thanks for your opinion, but I'm not the least bit interested in a shotgun that throws an "acceptable" pattern for hunting

[KG22122]

Thank you both but I will agree with Mudhen. Everyone must not look

for the acceptable but for the best possible.In my opinion accepteble is

just another step bellow the best. Always there is a place for sth better.

[timb99]

If you are using your Benelli for hunting, you are really wasting your time and money trying to get your pattern "a little bit better" than what you have. You will not be able to tell the difference. For the purposes of hunting, its 99% shooter and 1/2% barrel and 1/2% shells. Again, just my opinion.

 

On the other hand, if you want the best pattern possible because there's money on the line, frankly, don't waste your time on a Benelli.

 

Get a high dollar gun and have the barrel sent to Tom Wilkinson or Kerry Allor, tell them what you want in a pattern, and have them work on it. Expect to pay mondo dollars.

 

I mean, have you shot enough patterns and counted enough pellets and pellet holes to convince yourself the barrel you have isn't doing what you want it to? If you haven't, what makes you think a crio barrel or a backbored barrel or extended forcing cones are going to 1.) really make any difference and 2.) make anything better?

 

I have friends who have spent lots of money doing these things for target shooting barrels, and some have had success with improved pattern density, and some have not (comparing the patterns before and after the modifications.) But these guys are shooting tens of thousands of targets each year, and many have money on the line. Bottom line, though, it didn't make them better shooters.

 

So what if your hunting gun's barrel puts 70% of the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards, versus a high dollar target barrel that puts 80%? The pheasant or dove or duck you're shooting at will still be dead as a doornail if YOU pointed your gun properly and hit it dead center in the pattern. And it'll fly away if you don't.

 

Shotgun barrels are pretty basic. Unless they're dramatically screwed up (like...bent, or shooting half a pattern off), most shotgun barrels, at least for guns bought over-the-counter, will throw pretty much the same pattern for pretty much the same choke (within reason.) And even then, they vary shot to shot and will behave differently with different ammo. You're not talking about a rifle barrel where you can tune them to put 5 bullets in the same hole at 200 yards.

 

You're welcome to spend a bunch of money on your barrel, but frankly, in the end, you won't be able to tell the difference and you'll just be out a bunch of money.

 

Again, just one man's opinion.

[mudhen]

If you are using your Benelli for hunting, you are really wasting your time and money trying to get your pattern "a little bit better" than what you have. You will not be able to tell the difference. For the purposes of hunting, its 99% shooter and 1/2% barrel and 1/2% shells. Again, just my opinion.

 

On the other hand, if you want the best pattern possible because there's money on the line, frankly, don't waste your time on a Benelli.

 

Get a high dollar gun and have the barrel sent to Tom Wilkinson or Kerry Allor, tell them what you want in a pattern, and have them work on it. Expect to pay mondo dollars.

 

I mean, have you shot enough patterns and counted enough pellets and pellet holes to convince yourself the barrel you have isn't doing what you want it to? If you haven't, what makes you think a crio barrel or a backbored barrel or extended forcing cones are going to 1.) really make any difference and 2.) make anything better?

 

I have friends who have spent lots of money doing these things for target shooting barrels, and some have had success with improved pattern density, and some have not (comparing the patterns before and after the modifications.) But these guys are shooting tens of thousands of targets each year, and many have money on the line. Bottom line, though, it didn't make them better shooters.

 

So what if your hunting gun's barrel puts 70% of the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards, versus a high dollar target barrel that puts 80%? The pheasant or dove or duck you're shooting at will still be dead as a doornail if YOU pointed your gun properly and hit it dead center in the pattern. And it'll fly away if you don't.

 

Shotgun barrels are pretty basic. Unless they're dramatically screwed up (like...bent, or shooting half a pattern off), most shotgun barrels, at least for guns bought over-the-counter, will throw pretty much the same pattern for pretty much the same choke (within reason.) And even then, they vary shot to shot and will behave differently with different ammo. You're not talking about a rifle barrel where you can tune them to put 5 bullets in the same hole at 200 yards.

 

You're welcome to spend a bunch of money on your barrel, but frankly, in the end, you won't be able to tell the difference and you'll just be out a bunch of money.

 

Again, just one man's opinion.

 

Nice post, but a total waste of time for most of us

 

All I am talking about is using the best guns, best shells, best chokes, best cleaning material, that are normally available to most of us.

 

My SBE II now throws 200+ pellets in the 10" ring at 40 yards. All it took was the right shell and load combo + some barrel cleaning. All factory stuff. My Gold throws 230+ with a $35 choke tube.

 

Benelli only slightly raised the price when they went to Crio in 2005 or 2006. I will believe their marketing long before I'll believe any Internet Wizard.

 

No need for 99.99% or maybe even 100% of the above mentioned fluff.

 

You pretty much got all bent out of shape for nothing.

 

[KG22122]

Timb99

Correct me if I understood wrong. You say that unless you do some custom work on a gun, the results are pretty much the same among them. Speaking for barrels. I agree that with a custom work done you will have better results for a specific job. But, customized results for sth specific and not an all around job.

And I don't know how much better and how much you'll have to pay. Furthermore in Greece there are only 2-3 gunsmiths that do such a work and to tell you the truth I don't trust them with the results.

I have shotguns cheap, expensive and really expensive (what is expensive in Greece does not meen that it's expensive in the U.S. too).

I can not compare any side by side Baikal and many other brands, with the 1980 Manufrance Saint Etienne Robust 222, as I can not compare a Browning A5 with many of today's guns that I have or those I like. But 1) the A5 is very heavy for me 2) you can't use a varietty af ammo without making adjustments and 3) Greece is full of mountains.

That's why I am looking for the most reliable, easy to carry best performer that is in the market. That is the reason I ask you to help me.

The money.. Of course I think of the amount I will have to pay. And again that's why I ask and I take advice, so it will not be a waste of money in the end.

I want all of you to know that I appreciate this conversation very much ! Thank you for your time..