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timb99

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Everything posted by timb99

  1. Lisa, There are a large number of choke thread types, including those on guns that come from the factory, and those that are designed by aftermarket companies, such as Briley, Trulock, etc. Briley is probably the biggest name in choke tubes, and they are probably the brand you have seen with color coding, specifically their "Spectrum" brand. The reason color coding hasn't caught on is that it's kind of specific to Briley (though there may be others who color code.) Plus, there are so many types of choke threads. Remington RemChoke, Browning Invector, Browning Invector Plus, Briley Spectrum, Trulock Tru-Choke, Benelli, Beretta, Mossberg, and even some of the brands use different choke tubes in different guns. All have their own specific thread type, and are not interchengeable. I believe it is just that there are so many different choke tubes to choose from, the Briley's of the world decided they'd just color code theirs. Plus, color coding might be nice, but when it all boils down, cylinder, skeet, improved cylinder, light mod, mod, improved mod, light full, full, and extra full is what you need to know. And even then, its not so much what you call the choke tube, or what color you assign to it, what's important is how it throws patterns in your gun, with the shells you want to use. The only way to know that is to go through the rigors of patterning your gun. Tim
  2. There's a "flawed theory" in trap shooting that a more open choke will get you a few targets you otherwise would have missed with a tight choke. Again, I say, this is a flawed theory. Patterns thrown by more open chokes aren't really that much bigger than patterns thrown by tight chokes. They just have more pellets out at the "fringe" of the pattern, which means fewer pellets in the middle of the pattern. When you shoot trap, your goal is to break targets where the middle of your pattern hits the target, not just "somewhere" in your pattern. Most of the very best trap shooters, those in class AA27, tend to use a very tight full choke, regardless of whether they are shooting at the 16 yard lione or the 27 yard line. Why? Because a tight pattern allows them to "read" their breaks. When the target turns to dust, they know they were right on. Even when the target breaks poorly or just chips, they can tell with a tight pattern whether they were in front, behind, above, or below by how and where the target breaks. That provides them mental feedback as to whether they had their gun point correct, and allows them to learn and adjust if necessary. As a new shooter starting out, if you don't want to do the patterning, I'd start with a modified choke, and as you gain experience and confidence, move towards a tighter choke, say improved modified or light full. As you improve your handicap scores, get a few punches, and migrate back to the 24 or 25 yard line, I recommend nothing less than a true full choke. Good luck. I really enjoy trap shooting. I am Class A singles, 25 yard handicap, and class B doubles, which means I'm a fair to middlin' trap shooter. I also coached my daughter's SCTP trap shooting team. She's now on the trap shooting team at Kansas State University. Hope you stick with it. Tim
  3. Deciding on chokes is a funny thing and not as easy as just deciding which one you want to use, or which one other folks suggest. A modified choke from Browning won't throw the same pattern as a modified choke from Beretta, which won't throw the same pattern as a modified choke from Briley. The "BEST" thing to do is to take a bunch of 48" x 48" pieces of paper out to a range and pattern your chokes with the target loads you want to use, at a distance of about 35 or 40 yards. I would start with modified, improved modified, and full. I would not recommend anything more open than a modified choke for trap targets. This can be tedious, but you need to cut one of your shells apart, and count how many pellets are in it. Depending on shot size, it'll be about 350 to 500 pellets. Then, you need to take 8 or 10 shots at the paper, (using a new sheet of paper for each shot) using the center of the paper as your point of aim. Count the number of pellets that strike the paper inside a 30" circle, drawn around the point of aim. Use the choke that puts the highest percentage of pellets in the 30 inch circle (that is, the highest percentage number when you take the number of pellet strikes inside the 30" circle, divided by the number of pellets you counted in that shell you cut open.) Or, if you don't want to do that, try this. Its easier and less time consuming. Stand at station 3 at the 20 yard line. Have the trap club set up the target machine to throw straight-aways. Shoot 10 or 12 targets with a modified, 10 or 12 targets with an improved modified, and 10 or 12 targets with a full choke. Make sure you are using the same ammo you'll be using when you compete. Use the most open choke that consistently gives you the "best" breaks, that is, smokes the target thoroughly.
  4. CanadianTrap, Ken, in a roundabout way, brings up a good point. Regardless of which gun you choose, you will shoot the best with a gun that fits, and shoots where you're looking. Gun fit is extremely important to good scores.
  5. CanadianTrap, Depends on how "deep" you want to get into the sport. I am "involved" but not "committed" to the game. I shoot maybe a couple thousand registered targets each summer. Frank Hoppe, legendary trap shooter from Nebraska described the difference between involved and committed as looking at a breakfast of eggs and bacon. The chicken was "involved" in preparing breakfast, but the pig was totally "committed" to the breakfast. I'm Class A/25/B which means my 16 yard singles average is about 95%, I shoot handicap from the 25 yard line, and my doubles average, which I seldom shoot, is about 88%. If you just want to get into trap as an occasional thing, or in a fun league, a Benelli Nova will be fine. However, that gun is a field gun, therefore fairly lightweight, and after a few rounds of shooting even light target loads, your shoulder will start to feel it. As TMAC noted, a Remington 870 is a good entry level gun for trap. I would go for an 870 TRAP model, with a Monte Carlo stock and a 30" barrel. you can use field guns for trap, but there are drawbacks. Another great gun, the gun I started with and my daughter still uses for trap, is a Remington 1100 TRAP. You can get these used for $500 to $1000 US, depending on features and modifiecations. Great, light-recoiling gun, with very adequate triggers, right from the factory. Another excellent trap gun that may serve you well for as long as you shoot trap is the venerable Browning BT-99. Many of these guns are available used, and they are super for singles and handicap trap, though, being a single shot gun, won't help much if you want to shoot doubles. Also not suited for anything but trap, so don't take it out in the field to hunt. It doesn't have a safety, and it's pretty heavy. Heavy is good if you're going to shoot 300-400 targets in a day at a big trap shoot. The thing you'll find on the cheaper guns like the Stoeger and the Spartan is the triggers suck. If your budget is a little more than that, I'd consider a used Browning Citori Trap. The sky is the linit with trap guns. But if you want to get into it competitively, don't skimp on an off-brand cheap gun. Get a good quality name brand used gun. Just my opinion. Also, an excellent resource for questions, though sometimes the threads get a little off-topic, is the forum on http://www.trapshooters.com. Good luck. Tim
  6. Alex, Save up for a Browning Citori, XT, or a Beretta 682. Used guns are a great bargain, so don't narrow your focus to new guns only. You will not regret it. If you want to make a step up from your pump gun before you have enough money for a good quality O/U, you might consider a Beretta 391 autoloader or a Remington 1100 autoloader. Both are commonly used in competiton, and are excellent guns. I shot a lot of competitive trap with an 1100 before moving on to an O/U. Good luck with your shooting! Tim
  7. Depends on how "into" you plan to get into sporting clays. If you'll just dabble and do it once in a while for fun, the Condor will be fine, though a Remington 1100 might be a better choice. If you plan to get into the game, and shoot registered NSCA events, I would strongly recommend a higher quality gun. Maybe a used Browning Citori. Tim
  8. A youth 1100 or 1187 with light loads will kick so softly he won't be able to tell it's kicking.
  9. I've been using this method for years. Very handy. In fact, you don't "need" to use a scissors to cut along each side of the backbone. If all you have is a knife, just score the meat on either side of the backbone with the knife, and pull. Works almost as well. Tim
  10. I guess my opinion on this is different, but it depends on how "into" trap shooting you are, or want to be. If you shoot trap for fun, like in a weekly league, and not for registered competition, then shoot what you like. Your Nova will work fine, though I doubt you'll be able to find an aftermarket trap barrel for it as there is no market for such a barrel. Nobody who shoots trap competitively uses a Benelli Nova, or anything made by Benelli for that matter. They're not made for trap. They're made for hunting. If you are looking to get serious into competitive trap shooting, then I'd recommend you start looking for a dedicated trap gun. The rest of this discussion assumes you're going to try competitive trap shooting: Field guns are lightweight, and are going to batter you over the many hundreds of shots you'll be taking on the trap fields. Recoil is real, and cumulative, and no fun. Plus, field guns have a sloped comb, and they shoot flat, neither of which is particularly advantageous for shooting trap. The Nova, though a fine field gun, is just not made to take thousands of rounds a year, like you'll shoot if you compete. I shoot a bit of ATA registered trap (I am currently Class A and carry a 95.4% singles average...trying to work up to Class AA), and I shoot a dedicated trap gun for it. It's a heavy gun, about 9 pounds, and the recoil as a result is manageable. At that weight, I wouldn't dream of carrying it in the field for upland game. Its just too heavy. Another thing a heavy gun does for you is it smooths out your swing. Light guns can be jerky and whippy. Plus, not sure what you've heard or why you want it, but porting a shotgun barrel does absolutely nothing for recoil reduction (though this is not so for high powered rifles, where porting CAN help recoil.) All porting does for you with a shotgun is to reduce the muzzle jump, which is of limited value for trap (unless you're shooting doubles trap.) Porting just makes your gun louder, harder to clean, and pisses off the shooters to either side f you when it throws that occasional tiny bit of hot plastic from the wad over at them. Good entry-level trap guns include the Remington 870 Trap, the Remington 1100 Trap, the Beretta 391 Parallel Target, used Browning Citori Trap, used Winchester Model 12 Trap. These guns are made to shoot trap. There are others. Cheers, Tim [ 07-30-2006, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: timb99 ]
  11. Not trying to be a jerk here, but why on earth would you want a ported trap barrel (or a non-ported trap barrel for that matter) for a Benelli Nova? The Nova is not a trap gun.
  12. I agree with what the others have said. You may find your best bet is to go to the club and tell them you're brand new to shotgun sports, need some help getting started, and you'll be amazed at how many people will offer to help.
  13. Which shotgun? Stoeger Condor 12 ga, Ithaca Model 37 16 ga, Savage/Stevens SxS 20 ga, Mossberg 500 12 ga, all used for upland game (pheasants & quail) and I'll occasionally go after wild turkey with the Mossberg. Antonio Zoli Z-90 Trap model, 12 ga over/under with 32" barrels for trap singles, trap handicap, and trap doubles (Class A singles/23.5yd handicap/Class B doubles) Antonio Zoli Z-90 (yes I have 2) 12 ga over/under with 30" barrels for skeet and sporting clays (I usually put in a set of Briley gauge reducers and shoot it as a 28 gauge for skeet.) Tim
  14. timb99

    Snow/Rain

    They'll fly when it's raining. I have lots of experience with that. Plus, the moisture somehow makes it easier for the dogs to track them.
  15. Chukar is good eating, too. good bird to use for dog training, though sometimes the pen raised ones just don't want to fly.
  16. Oh my dear Lord. That has to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard. I'll bet not for you, certainly not at the time.... This will be a story you will be able to tell forever! Tim
  17. fezman, I gotta hear this. What, did you have $500 in cash laying around, and the dog literally ate it?
  18. Cold blue works pretty good, but it only works on steel. Some brand names are Birchwood Casey (available at Wal-Mart) and Oxpho Blue. If the ding is on aluminum, Birchwood Casey makes a product called Aluminum Black that works well. Follow the directions. Clean surfaces are important. Tim
  19. All things being equal, barrel length has virtually no effect on pattern, so what yankeejim said is generally accepted as accurate. If there is any effect, it's so insignificant as to be ignored. Since virtually all the powder in a shotgun shell is burned in the first 16-17 inches of the barrel, muzzle velocity is not higher in a long barrel than in a short barrel (this is not true for rifles where barrel length DOES affect muzzle velocity.) That being said, all things are not equal. Lots of things affect pattern. Different barrels of the same length, made in the same factory on two different machines, or the same gun with two different brands of choke tubes, will affect patterns. Different shell loads will affect patterns. Different shot size will affect patterns. Different shot material (chilled lead, magnum lead, steel, bismuth, hevi-shot, etc.) will affect patterns. I reload, so I know, different brands of powder will affect patterns. The best way to determine how your gun patterns with different combinations is to go to a pattern board. If you have exactly the same gun with exactly the same barrel, but one is 2 inches longer, there should be no discernible difference in the pattern. To answer the original question, in my opinion (I do not purport myself to be an expert on anything)barrel length is a matter of personal taste. [ 02-05-2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: timb99 ]
  20. Nothing Benelli makes is particularly well suited for true trap shooting. Benelli guns are lightweight, flat-shooting field guns, and are well suited to being carried around all day in the field. By flat-shooting, I mean that if you took your gun to a pattern board, and aimed it like a rifle at a bull's eye 30 yards away or so, and covered the center of the bull's eye with the bead when you shot, the pattern will be centered around the bull's eye. If you did that with a trap gun, 70% (or more) of the pattern will be above the bull's eye. True trap guns are heavy to reduce felt recoil, and set up to shoot high since the target is rising as soon as it exits the trap house. Plus, with a high shooting gun, you can "float" the target above the bead so it is always in your sight when you pull the trigger. With a flat-shooting field gun, you must, as mentioned above, cover the target with the bead (on straight-away's) when you pull the trigger. For some help on an intro to trap shooting, go to Remington's website. Here's the link. http://www.remington.com/whatsnew/trap/TRAP.htm hr, If you're shooting at a real trap range with a cylinder choke, that is WAAAAY too open for trap. A typical trap target is broken at about 35 to 45 yards, and by that time, the pellets in a cylinder choke are so spread out, even if you're right on, the target may not get a hit. I shoot registered trap, and I use a full choke. When I hit targets, they turn to dust, literally. My daughter, who has faster reflexes than me and shoots a split second sooner, uses a modified choke. I wouldn't use anything more open than modified for true trap shooting. Tim [ 02-05-2005, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: timb99 ]
  21. [ 01-18-2005, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: timb99 ]
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