timb99

What do you plan to use the gun for? Hunting, target shooting (skeet, trap, sporting clays) or home defense? Remember, the lighter the gun, the greater the recoil. That's physics, and you can't do too much to change that. I'd be hesitant to go with an 18.5 inch barrel unless you plan to use the gun for home defense. What length barrel is on the gun now? If you are afraid you'll be sensitive to recoil, keep in mind there are "low recoil" shells available. They are more difficult to find, as they are not in your "run of the mill" stores, but they are available. They work quite well for target shooting. That's what I started my daughter off with when she was just starting to shoot. Not having shot a shotgun before, may I suggest that you find a reputable NSCA certified wingshooting instructor, and take shooting lessons first. It is far easier to learn how to shoot right the first time, than to learn poor habits and have to "un-learn" them to get it right. Tim

M44 - Mosin Nagant?

Any choke will work. Some just make the game more challenging. I use skeet or cylinder chokes. I also use a .410. Now THAT makes the game challenging.

I stand by what I said. I've shot a supersport 12 gauge with trap loads, so I'm not blowing smoke. Its a nice gun. Points and shoots well. Yes, it is easier on recoil than other Benelli guns I've shot. But. It recoils more than my trap over/under. Simple as that. It recoils more than my skeet/sporting clays over/under. Simple as that. It recoils way more than my daughter's 1100 trap. Simple as that. They may be the next big thing in clay target shooting, but I have never seen anyone shoot one in registered trap or skeet, and have only seen two people shoot them in registered sporting clays, and I know for a fact the master class shooter who uses one shoots 7/8 ounce loads to tame the recoil. I would not want to shoot one for a typical local ATA trap shoot which consists of 100 trap singles, 100 trap handicap, and 100 trap doubles in one day. And I regularly do that with my trap over/under. Really. And if you note, I said in my original post, it was an excellent gun and I recommend it. I have no agenda. Your mileage may vary.

If you'd have asked me a couple months ago, I'd have said no. However.... This is an excellent gun. I know two people who use this gun exclusively for sporting clays competition. One is a master class shooter, so yes, this is a good gun. He tames its recoil by using 7/8 ounce shells. For trap? You will not see very many serious trap shooters shooting a Benelli anything on the trap range. Its light, and light means recoil, and when you shoot hundreds of shells in a day, recoil adds up. Same with skeet. But if you're not into registered competition, this gun will serve you fine. If you're thinking of getting into registered ATA trap or NSSA skeet shooting, you might set your sights on a different gun.

Eurpoeans...and guys who shoot lots of trap. I'd agree with tucker. Take that Montefeltro out and pattern it at, say, 35 or 40 yards. The issue here is probably more about gun fit and point of impact than it is about which choke you're using. Don't try to do your patterning off-hand. Use a bench rest, but try to see the same sight picture you see when you mount the gun normally. Don't worry too much about what choke you are using. If you're on, you're on. A modified choke works well for most circumstances when hunting wild pheasants. IC for pen raised birds over dogs.

Actually, oldboots is right. All that stuff happens after the ejecta (wad, shot, gases) has left the barrel. I thought about that after my original post. The gas guns do use a little of the pressure in the barrel, which would lower, albeit very slightly, and for a VERY short time, the pressure pushing on the back side of the wad. But a recoil operated semi-auto should be absolutely no different than a fixed breech gun like a pump or a break action.

Here's what I do when I'm giving my barrel a thorough cleaning, which is about once a year (though I do use a bore snake after each outing.) AFTER MAKING SURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED! 1. Remove the barrel from the receiver. 2. Remove the choke tube from the muzzle. Put the dirty choke tube in a jar with Ed's Red Bore Cleaner to soak. Soak for days, preferably. All your plastic wad residue will probably fall off. Slip 2000 works too I'm told, as do many other cleaning solutions. 3. Clean the threads in the barrel with Ed's Red (or your cleaner of choice) and a bronze oversize brush, toothbrush, rag, whatever, until its clean. This may take a while to get clean. Sometimes I chuck a bronze bore brush in a drill motor and spin it at low speed in the choke tube thread area. 4. When the choke tube threads are clean, install a new, previously cleaned choke tube. You can use the one you took out, or another one. I usually use a clean skeet choke tube when cleaning the barrel. Use anti-seize or some other thread lubricant when installing the tube. 5. Clean your barrel by whatever means you like. The reason I do this is I find the dirtiest part of the barrel is the choke tube. By cleaning the choke tube separately from the barrel, it seems to take less time to get the barrel clean. Your mileage may vary.

We didn't get the bad weather until Sunday over night. Glad you got some good hunting in.

"i was wondering if it is true and if so how much power is lost." Yes, but not enough that you could measure even with incredibly precise instrumentation. To test this, get a box of shells. Shoot 12 of them with your SBE through a chronograph. Then shoot 12 of them through a pump or a break action gun through a chronograph. Compare the average muzzle velocity of each set of data. If they're statistically different, I'll be surprised.

I've been pretty fortunate this year. Need to practice more, though. All of the birds I bagged on this trip were on the second or third shot. I think I'm hurrying the first shot. Had some long range passing shots that required 8-10 feet of lead. I'm usually a bit surprised when I make one of those. Then I get this half grin on my face, and chuckle a little, and tell myself that maybe I'm not such a bad shot after all.

More photos:

Great weekend in South Dakota with two of my cousins, a great landowner, and a guy I just met and his son. Hunted last Friday afternoon and all day Saturday (well, kind of) near Parkston , SD. Got my limit in 3 hours on Friday, and in about 2 hours on Saturday. As you'll see from the photos, 6 limits is 18 birds. Way too much fun.

How'd you do? See photos on my trip to South Dakota this weekend.

Check to make sure the firing pin spring is not broken, or gummed up to the point where it won't push the pin all the way back.

lefty, For pen raised birds at short distances, 8's will kill them, but I'd be more inclined to go with 7-1/2 or 6 shot as tucker noted. And like tucker said, at that distance a skeet choke is plenty. But I submit: If you're missing pheasants at 25 yards....well...it isn't because of the choke or the shot size you were using. The problem is the nut behind the trigger. My advice to you is practice, practice, practice on clays until you're smoking them with regularity. Trap, skeet, sporting clays all help. Like a wise man once said, "The more I shoot clay targets, the luckier I get shooting pheasants and quail." OK, actually, I just made that up...but I stole parts of it from a Lee Trevino quote about practicing golf. If practice doesn't work (if you keep shooting at clay targets without getting any better) try this: Take some wingshooting lessons from an NSCA instructor, and have someone (who knows what they're doing...not the local gun club know-it-all) take a look at your gun fit. Guys won't think twice about taking lessons to improve their golf swing and having golf clubs custom fit to them, but seem to think they should naturally be able to pick up a gun, any gun, and shoot it proficiently. I think its an ego thing.

I'd bet they're pretty light loads, though I don't know. Doesn't take much to break a clay, and all he really has to make sure is that it cycles the gun. He used to have his own website and would answer questions like that.

Thanks. That's "Her Royal Highness Princess Katarina Phasianus Colchicus" a.k.a. Katie Unlike many hunting dogs, she is also the family house pet. She sleeps on the bed with my wife when I'm away on business trips. Also unlike many German Shorthaired Pointers, she's very low key. She's almost 10 years old now. Get this...we got her at the local animal haven. She was a stray. She's a great dog.

Common brand name is Break-Free CLP. Available in Wally World stores, at least in my area.

Votes for gas semi-auto's. Remington 1100 or 1187; Beretta 390 or 391. Don't know much about the Winchester gas guns, but some folks seem to like them. But I'm starting to warm up to the Benelli SuperSport. A fellow I know who is a master class NSCA shooter uses one.

I'd start them off with a Remington 1187 youth 20 gauge. Very soft recoil. Very good gun.

Ported choke? I doubt it. Limbsaver pad would probably help.

Most Italian-made guns get a proof mark from the Italian Proofing House. Usually a small (about 1/4") rectangle with a two letter code. If it is a recently made gun, it'll start with a B or a C. BZ is 2005, CA is 2006, CB is 2007. On Over/Unders it is on the bottom of the monobloc. Not sure where it will be for semi-auto guns. Probably on the receiver and/or the barrel. Tim

As Banjo said, it is the forcing cone. What is a forcing cone, you ask? The forcing cone is where the inside diameter of the barrel transitions from the chamber diameter, which for a 12 gauge barrel is about 0.800 inches, to the bore diameter, which for a 12 gauge barrel is about 0.729 inches (nominally, unless your gun is back-bored in which case it'll be slightly bigger.) This cone starts approximately at the end of the chamber (so for a gun with a 3" chamber, the cone would start at about 3 inches from the breech end of the barrel.) This is also why you should never use longer shells than what your gun is made for. If, for example, you put a 3 inch shell in a chamber made for 2-3/4 inch shells only, it will still fit, but as you fire the gun and the shell's crimp opens, the forcing cone doesn't allow it to get all the way open, which can cause high pressures in the chamber, which the gun is not made for. Why does your barrel have this change in diameter from the chamber to the barrel? The chamber has to be a large enough diameter to accept the shell, which is substantially larger in diameter than the wad/shot cup, which is what comes out of the shell and heads on down the barrel and out the muzzle when the gun is fired. The forcing cone is somewhat of a carry-over from the days of paper or cardboard wads, when a very tight seal was needed to minimize blow-by of the gases from the burning powder. Modern wads do a much better job of sealing the barrel than the old cardboard wads did. If your barrel were the chamber diameter (0.800 inches) for its full length, it would still work, and probably just fine, since modern wads are soft plastic and are "cupped" at the end, and will spread out or "obturate" to seal even a very large diameter barrel. But most manufacturers still make barrels with the old nominal 0.729 diameter, which is why most barrels will have a forcing cone. Good question.

Bird dog Katie looking over the harvest.