bm4sbs

BTW - Speaking of making a tool-less designed mounting system for the M4. Thinking of your concerns StrangerDanger. One could make one by having something similar to the LaserLyte Triple Rail, but instead of clamping to the mag, one could make it so a section fits up over the front ring connected to the barrel which slides over the mag and clamp to that instead. The rails could sit in the same position they do, as the piece over the ring is only for clamping and then it would profile down to float over the mag tube. It would then slide right off/on with the barrel during assembly/disassembly. It would be only for the M4 obviously so the sales wouldn't reach the same market but a design like that would be awesome.

I have the custom surface mount switch complete. I wasn't able to use the original molded rubber boot as I had planned. It turned out it was too tight for both switches, it stuck the activation on occasion which wasn't an option. So I had to go with a custom one. I made the boot out of Sugru. I am not entirely happy with the aesthetic results of that, but functionally the entire thing is awesome. I would consider using Plasti Dip for a future boot if I re-do this portion. The entire rig is as light, compact and adds as low of a profile as is possible. The switch is a dream to operate. Great feedback you can feel it activate both the laser and the light. You can press lightly and activate only the laser, and not accidentally go over the edge and hit the light. Pressing on full and both go on. I couldn't be happier with the way that turned out. As noted earlier, I rigged a tactical switch to a ~600 lumen single 123 cell light and replaced the awful lasermax switch with the same style tactical switch. I then sewed them together and put them in a boot. I ended up using sugru for the boot material. Interesting to note with the sugru, double sided stick tape (Good 3M Stuff) would not stick to it's slick silicon surface, so I ended up using a thin layer of sugru to bond the switch to the handguard, using a clamp to hold them together.

Sling is irrespective of left/right hand as far as I know. To rotate the stock front sling attachment point on the M4, you need a pair of snap ring pliers. Expand the retaining ring, pull off the sling bracket, rotate it 180 degrees, reinstall the snap ring.

Yea. I have a M80 on my last full length M4. If you MUST have rails, it's a decent rig. For me it adds too much bulk to the hand guard and too much weight. I am not a fan. Understanding it is what it is if you need rails. I am not saying there is a better design.

I will check out both of those websites. Finding ones that are the same size, and have the same activation qualities in terms of feedback is the primary concern. I may have to order a bunch to find ones I like if I do so, whereas with these there isn't a question on what they are and how they work.

All good advice. Yes you can drill PCBs as long as you don't obliterate a conductive trace or do some other damage. Here I drilled small enough holes I left plenty of the conductor behind. For the handguard switch. A point of clarification. The sandwich in the boot will just be stuck to the stock handguard on the outside. This will get me by in the mean time. The internally mounted switch will use these same tac surface mount switches, harvested from a separate set of switches, but I am going to desolder them from PCBs and mount them on even thinner plastic and run wires between so I can make super small cluster of 4 switches that will fit on the space I have in the guard. I will screw the plastic down to the inside of the guard and then stiffen in with a thin layer of epoxy or glue. That's going to be awhile before that project is done. Once i have the interim boot and switch sandwich complete I will snap some pics, etc.

I also got the new handguards in to start working on. Area in green is where a switch might be able to be mounted internally. Red area can be sanded down to blend with contour of entire green area. Below area is mag tube. Above the barrel starts to encroach. After that, there isn't a ton to that can be removed from the outside as a pocket. We'll see how that goes later.

Still waiting on the IWC Rotation Limited Cup... they take forever to ship. Anyway... the dual switch, my update. I am going to first create a button sandwich contained in a rubber boot, then after I have that I am going to tackle an attempt to build something into the handguard. For the button Sandwich, got the sugru to seal everything up, I decided to drill the switch panels and will sew them together using dental floss believe it or not. Stuff is tough and thin. Will allow me to tension everything together and hold it in place before putting in a boot. Pre-drilled panels, to be laced together: Waiting on my new soldering gun before I solder the second switch up. This is the guts of a lasermax switch. Total junk, no feedback. Now I know why. Basically you push in and the copper comes together in the middle, you have to over come the edges, very bizarre feeling switch. Terrible feedback. Just aweful. I can't believe this was approved. I will be replacing this with my tac switch above.

BLECK. Wish Benelli would make a box mag fed shotgun. I'd be all in.

I got my magpul QD in, it was still longer (.583), than the Ace QD at .500. Both have the same approximate diameter of .495. The ace comes with a screw of the perfect diameter, but it is a bit short to go all the way through the retainer and hit the hole on the other side of the grip. Ace: http:// riflestocks.com /store/product46.html I am still waiting on the IWC (Impact Weapons Components) Anti-Rotation QD Cup to ship. Once I have that I will decide between modding that one or running with the Ace.

ATF reg length - drop a dowel/cleaning rod down the barrel on a closed bolt.

Wow. Yea. That's certainly true. These things don't occur to me. I thought of running just wires but but then having a hard plastic cradle to hold it all. I like your idea of using a plastic substrate, very thin like a laminate w/epoxy and wires as bridges.

There are switches called Single Throw Double Pole, but usually not at the micro level like these, Even if you found some that small you would have to mate them to a substrate which complicates matter. When I press the sammich with a small amount of pressure it closes both circuits quite easily. Descriptions won't do it justice, you'd have to try it. I am happy with it. You could adjust how it spreads the load by using various materials for the separator material. Generally this is controlled by a strip sitting on top of the buttons. In this case, I don't have that much luxury due to it being a sandwich. Ideally I would have a very thing flexible strip - you see these flexible flat cables in electronics sometime, with a cluster of these switches mounted in a staggered single row, very close together closing two circuits. But I am not sure this can be done outside a factory. I can cut it down to less switches. Something I am considering. Obviously requires more refined hand placement - good and bad. Obviously advantage being less risk of accidental, more risk of missing the switch. Less buttons could also be a risk to function since the buttons are redundant. Not that worried about that though.

Flexibility: Note there are 5 buttons on these. I have one I trimmed to 4 buttons. Form Fitting: Using these, I have a few choices: 1) Mounted outside the guards in a stock boot. 2) Mounted outside the guards in a custom boot. 3) Mounted outside the guards, in a milled pocket with a custom Sugru covering. 4) Mounted inside the guards - this is the most complicated. The first rib you see in the guard picture marks where the piston ends on the inside. So both buttons would need to be trimmed. If it were inside, I would want to have holes for a custom plastic activator to push through the handuard to depress the button. A 3d printer would be ideal to create this activator. I also need something to securely mount the buttons to be backside. Epoxy would work but it is permanent and may prevent easily fixing any issues. A hard plastic boot that is screwed to the inside would be better IMO. Outside, the plastic activator would still need a sugru style covering, or something at least. Eh... not sure.

The boards are very thin. Almost like a sheet of laminate thin. They are flexible on the long axis. What I am planning to do, a modification to your bar idea, is make a sandwich with them. The buttons facing each other inward in the sandwich with a peice of thin material between. One strip will have 4 buttons, the other the stock 5. They will line up so the buttons are between each other. When you press down both circuits are closed. This is even small enough to slip back into the stock boot for these switches. Adds a little puffyness to it, but it works. That's one option. The other option is to make a new cover with sugru - which is a moldable silcone. other things I found when looking at sugru alternatives: Versimold Instamorph One is moldable rubber for gaskets and the such - mold like putty, dry with heat gun. Other is hand moldable plastic - low temp, like 150 degrees. I want a 3d printer some day... Button Sammich:

Crap now I need a 3D printer to make cool molds for Sugru. https:// sugru. com/us/blog/how-to-mold-precise-rubber-parts-with-sugru

haha. Perfect timing. I was out a birthday party with my little girl and we were all playing with play-doh. Anyway, it reminded me of Sugru and it clicked in my head. One of the problems with a custom switch molded into the guards is how to enclose the electronic switch. I haven't used it for anything that I wished to look like a custom molded rubber covering, but it may work. As far as the switches, I am in fact going to use two switches, stripped, one trimmed, facing each other button side in, with a thin semi ridged strip between them. If I put that in the rubber boot they came in or a molded sugru boot on the guard, I am not sure yet. When depressed this will activate the light and the laser by closing both circuits. I am thinking of making a milled bed in the handguards, or just carefully dremeled then drilling a pattern of tiny holes in it. Making a very thin bed of sugru and forcing some through the holes to secure it to the guard. The pushing the double strip of switches into the sugru. Then will have to overmold the sugru on the top. This would still appear like as a surface mount tape switch but more custom and low profile. The two parts that concern me is the milling of handguard. And the overmold. Both require steady hand and an artists eye. Not good for me.

I think I am resigning myself to doing a single surface mount switch where I have the one currently. I hate the way the one that activates the laser feels. It's like squeezing a balloon. No feedback. Activating the light is easy, but I want "One" button to activate both. Building into the from hand guards is going to be a project that requires things over my head. For one I think I need a mill to make pockets properly. Those boards in the switch I pictures are razor thin, building a custom one on a proto board would leave me with a thick switch. And the pistons push right up to the point the handguards taper up front so there isn't a ton of space under the guards where I would need to mount the buttons, etc. That switch pictured by the way is a Solarforce switch, you can get them cheap.

Thanks! I am going to order the IWC and the shorter magpul one so I can evaluate the options. I am pretty confident the IWC mod will be fairly easy as you stated. I won't drill big and backfill, I will file it down. For the teeth on the backend...I am thinking grind them down with a dremel. If not all the way off, you can leave some small nubs and make a tiny tiny pocket for it to sit in on the retainer in the grip to aid in preventing rotation is what I am thinking. We'll see. I want the magpul as well in case there are unforeseen fastener issues encountered. I may need a larger diameter screw to thread into the retainer and if so, I have to find one with a head that will fit in the QD and not interfere with the male QD seating properly.

Okay so I took the PG apart. I see the only part that is metal is the nut retaining piece which is pinned in place? For some reason, I kept thinking there was steel or metal core molded into the grip itself. So If I do this without a nut, that metal retainer will need to be threaded and a screw big enough to thread into it will be required. Another way it may be possible without drilling the other side of the grip to accept a screw head or nut is to drill the metal retainer to accept a small nut on the opposite side, glue it in place, slip the hole thing back in and then the screw comes in from the QD cup. EDIT: Looking at the picture not sure there is enough meat on it to hold a nut. Only metal part circled in red??? Also, for the switch. This is what the inside of a tape switch looks like that uses surface mount tactile switches. I think there are a few other ways this can be done, i like the feel of these the best though because of the tactile feedback knowing you have depressed the switch. I am thinking about taking two of these, trimming one so it has one less button, facing them up towards each other with a semi stiff spacer between and then sealing them back up inside a rubber boot.

I got my Blam4 modified with a QD. The Noveske is out of stock everywhere. I had a IWC one already for another project, so i fitted it. I do like the anti-rotation due to the proximity of other features. I did have a tiny bit of clearance issues with the IWC on the back side of the blam4. As it has barely enough clearance, in fact I think it contacts the metal directly underneath it when I have the IWC fasterners tightened down. One may solve this by putting a small washer (also painted) on the front side to pull the whole QD a tad bit further out. If drilled properly, I don't think this would have any disadvantages. I am still considering doing so. Edit: Or I guess you can bend it slightly to give clearance. Duhr... Thanks for all the input and help. I did have a **** of a time drilling the hole larger, as the bits would wobble in the original hole. I quickly decided that for the bits had, I would need a press to do it correctly. I don't have one so I opted to fill all holes with epoxy and bake cure it, then drill. this allowed the bit to bite in and remain centered. I was being pretty darn impatient. Especially given it's basically a $55 piece of stamped and bent metal by the time I get to using it. Anyway... no way I was going to make it through waiting for things to dry. I not only bake cured the epoxy but the primer and enamel as well. Turned out to be pretty fun to do it that way. Now onto the rear QD Cup. I am going to pull the grip today and take it apart so I have a better understanding of it. Hopefully order some parts shortly thereafter. I did notice there were different magpul qd cups. Some look long, there is one on brownells that looks short. I may end up ordering that along with the IWC to evaluate the options. I am also going to pull the Ace Mfg QD Cup off my AK and take some measurements. What I would ideally like to do thread the internals of the grip and the retainer if possible. So a screw that fits into the qd cup - see the magpul shown above, will thread into the grip and retainer all from one side. Other option will be to drill them out larger and use a nut of some type.

What I had missed was I thought you cut off the portion of the Blam with the center screw hole, so I thought your .5 inch drilled hole was further over. Now I see the epoxy, that's awesome. Thank you. Can't wait to see your cerakoted rig. For the Klaurus switch, I suspect there are no electronics in the tailcap. I bet the switch probably just closes the same circuit back before it goes into the wire loom, so there are likely only two wires. At worst there are four. Regardless, since you are not using a Klarus light, that I know of, you don't need the electronics in the cap. You need the switches, that are without a doubt there. I would get one, not sure how much they are. and take close look at the tailcap. If my suspicion is right you will have two electrical contact points in it which you can demonstrate to close with a 10 dollar meter when you hit either switch. Cut the tail cap off and check your wires with the meter...

I can map it out how the boards work, etc... but I am afraid someone that has done this more than me would end up executing it better because they will have ideas from experience - such as your idea to bar the buttons, avoiding a need for a relay (which could fail, etc).... I want the buttons build into a set of FFT handguards. A set of buttons on each half. Would you be interested in attempting this? Even if in part say the boards and switches? Not a free hobby job either, I am willing to pay. 1) Button Clusters Built 2) Fitting them to Handguards. (May require milling or at least very careful dremel) 3) Designing some sort of covering for the buttons. 3) Replacing a Clicky Tail Cap guts with material to accept a external wire input to turn on an existing flashlight. Even if you know someone from CPF or otherwise that you think might be interested....

Interesting. If you can fit that entirely under the grip, that would be slick. You have to get the switch and tear open the wire to see how it works. If the momentary is one mode and the button is another, you simply wire them together so pushing the button or hitting the momentary both close the circuit. Obviously the button 'locks' it on. Way better option than the surefire, IMO

AHHHHH. Okay, what i was missing was that you had epoxied over the center screw hole. Makes perfect sense now. Thank YOU!