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huklbrry

Any aftermarket m-4 telescoping stocks out there?

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I just recently purchased an M-4 and am amazed that I am unable find a collapsable for it. They make em for every other type of shotgun pretty much. Anyone know why Im running into this problem?

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Almost anything made for US military usage is impossible to find due to demand. Benelli is way backordered on new M4s. AR-25s are now selling for over $11,000 (a $3,000 gun) and the list goes on. My understanding is that Benelli is not sending any to the US - I assumed that was because of the military demand but maybe someone knows different.

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I've also wondered why there are no aftermarket collapsible stocks for the M4. Mags and extensions? Yes. Stocks? No.

Kinda weird. Especially since people are paying $700 for a factory one. I'd say the demand is there for aftermarket companies.

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Guest cleefurd

H.R. 1022 has more than a few people leary of "pulling the trigger" on development of any component that might legislatively become prohibited for civilian sale.

 

Never the less, I can confirm that our company "carriercomp" has produced an M4 tele-stock in limited quantities for defense contractors that were well received, and still in use. They essentially duplicate the OEM unit in every mechanical aspect, functionality is the same including same OAL measurements at open/close positions, and ergonomics are identical to OEM w/ respect to button placement. At a glance they actually LOOK the same as well. They are each hand-crafted and utilize AR15 grips, while the main body is comprised of laser-cut titanium panels and main tube (no plastic substituted anywhere), that were jig-mounted and fused into a unibody assembly that winds up lighter and stronger than the bulky OEM casting, yet of STRIKINGLY similar profile, that compliments the factory version with respect to geometry and silhouette. The pins, spring, and button are stainless or titanium which eliminates any and all rust issues. The OEM recoil pad is converted over which will not usurp the domestic component status, since it is an accouterment to the stock, and not a stock itself, and lastly the cloned cheek rests were made utilizing a very expensive injection mold (that we still own) from fiber reinforced materials similar to those seen in AR15 Carbine tele-stocks. Every aspect of the stock is vastly superior to the OEM unit, but they were/are costly to produce. Per unit price ironically was similar to the frenzy price associated w/ OEM units, but for different reasons. Surpassing OEM class at far below mass production volume, using titanium and custom molds with user upgradability (pistol grip) all combined do elevate cost. The reason it was justified was a special purchase scenario that resulted in the "Feather-4" nomenclature, where-in we delivered M4's that weighed over a pound less than comparably equipped stock M4's. A pound might not seem like much. But stressing cumilative weight savings in many facets of battle prep/trials involving enhanced gear at each equipment level resulted in 12-1/2 lbs overall payload reduction.

 

NOTE:Our file photos are Govt property so please don't anticipate detailed views prior to our considering an actual civilian run. The Govt samples were "sanitary" but civilian ones WILL have "MADE IN USA" CNC engraved in the lower panel, and the butt-pad has "carriercomp" molded into the similar location Benelli puts its logo.

 

The "carriercomp" project manager has widely held that consumer demand would never find the cost of these units palletable enough to justify civilian distribution. Given the current climate, and resultant price of OEM units approaching that of our own advanced offering, I am compelled to find out how many people would be tentatively interested. If civilian interest is encouraging, and manifests itself SOON given the uncertain window of opportunity afforded by the incoming administration, then we would proceed with incremental limitted production runs conducted in such a way that those committed would be guaranteed ownership rights pre-delivery irrespective of interum legislation. (It can be done, much like Anzio Ironworks does, you buy it when its legal, we finish it and deliver in a timely fashion) 1st order of business is to determine demand. Followed by our presentation of the final product for commited buyers, and finally, given sufficient demand and resultant green light, we deliver.

[email protected]

Edited by cleefurd
Hi-Lite last paragraph/revise recoil pad origin

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Do you have a website or anything? I looked up your company and couldn't find out any information on it? Thanks in advance, and yes I would be interested if the price is right.

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Guest cleefurd
Do you have a website or anything? I looked up your company and couldn't find out any information on it? Thanks in advance, and yes I would be interested if the price is right.

 

Our web domain is intact, but dormant since the passing of my late wife and daughter back in 2004. After retirement (USMC 1983-2005) I slowly resumed production, and the web-site has been neglected... sorry, I need to remedy that. At any rate, until recently we had zero direct sales to civilians, originally (and still) catering to military purchase orders, and accessories for Creedmoor Sports, Kowa International, military MTU units, etc. Our initial offerings to the public began last October on Gunbroker.com (sample listing);

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=116566183

 

We build competition rear sights for the CTC (cross the course) AR15 service rifle platform based on a 2002 awarded patent, we built the aluminum version of the Kowa TSN-821 protective eyepiece cover, we build M1A/M14 decarb reamers, Benelli M4 Titanium bolt handles, Benelli M4 full length titanium magazine tubes with aftermarket premium feed springs (available seperately), and have built limitted runs of Benelli M4 titanium bodied collapsible stocks that work with OEM recoil tubes, and believe it or not, we also do 5 shot big-bore conversions for Ruger Blackhawks, based on experience gleaned from brief tenure as a Freedom Arms employee. Experience acquired working in the PWS facility at Quantico, VA developing brass processors for reloading, Double Distinguished having served on the USMC Rifle Team from 1998-2003 , with the exception of 1999 when I was on the USMC pistol team. Combat Action, Meritorious Service, Navy Commendation to name a few. But humble to a fault in spite of these credentials. I have been there and done that but prefer to keep my iron in the same fire as my countrymen, never looking down my nose at ANYONE regardless of their stature or lack of it. I have been blessed to survive to this day, and my journey began where anyone's did, in a cradle, and will end with the dignity of those around me as a barometer of my success.

 

I appreciate and respect the nature of your inquiry, and hope this brings our operation into clearer focus.

 

This response is duplicate of my previous reply to a similar inquiry on a different thread.

Edited by cleefurd

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I'd be interested if the price wasn't too outrageous.

Pics and a price range would get a more firm answer.

Perhaps a group purchase might be a way to go . . .

 

I am assuming it would be a straightforward swap for those

of us with an M4 with a fixed pistol grip or field stock (11707 and 11717)?

No extra parts needed?

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Guest cleefurd
I'd be interested if the price wasn't too outrageous.

Pics and a price range would get a more firm answer.

Perhaps a group purchase might be a way to go . . .

 

I am assuming it would be a straightforward swap for those

of us with an M4 with a fixed pistol grip or field stock (11707 and 11717)?

No extra parts needed?

 

That is correct. They also fit M1014's with the Numrich replacement recoil tube ($94 part)

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Our web domain is intact, but dormant since the passing of my late wife and daughter back in 2004. After retirement (USMC 1983-2005) I slowly resumed production, and the web-site has been neglected... sorry, I need to remedy that. At any rate, until recently we had zero direct sales to civilians, originally (and still) catering to military purchase orders, and accessories for Creedmoor Sports, Kowa International, military MTU units, etc. Our initial offerings to the public began last October on Gunbroker.com (sample listing);

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=116566183

 

We build competition rear sights for the CTC (cross the course) AR15 service rifle platform based on a 2002 awarded patent, we built the aluminum version of the Kowa TSN-821 protective eyepiece cover, we build M1A/M14 decarb reamers, Benelli M4 Titanium bolt handles, Benelli M4 full length titanium magazine tubes with aftermarket premium feed springs (available seperately), and have built limitted runs of Benelli M4 titanium bodied collapsible stocks that work with OEM recoil tubes, and believe it or not, we also do 5 shot big-bore conversions for Ruger Blackhawks, based on experience gleaned from brief tenure as a Freedom Arms employee. Experience acquired working in the PWS facility at Quantico, VA developing brass processors for reloading, Double Distinguished having served on the USMC Rifle Team from 1998-2003 , with the exception of 1999 when I was on the USMC pistol team. Combat Action, Meritorious Service, Navy Commendation to name a few. But humble to a fault in spite of these credentials. I have been there and done that but prefer to keep my iron in the same fire as my countrymen, never looking down my nose at ANYONE regardless of their stature or lack of it. I have been blessed to survive to this day, and my journey began where anyone's did, in a cradle, and will end with the dignity of those around me as a barometer of my success.

 

I appreciate and respect the nature of your inquiry, and hope this brings our operation into clearer focus.

 

This response is duplicate of my previous reply to a similar inquiry on a different thread.

 

I'm real sorry about your wife and daughter. That must have been very tough. I'm interested in the stock and the bolt handle you manufacture. Do you have any pictures of that?

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Guest cleefurd

We will be coating some of our "dormant" bolt knob samples, and post illustrations soon after Dec 27.

Edited by cleefurd

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We will be coating some of our "dormant" samples, and post illustrations soon after Dec 27.

 

Sounds great.

Maybe you could send a sample out to a forum member for testing before accepting orders?

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Sounds great.

Maybe you could send a sample out to a forum member for testing before accepting orders?

 

I nominate myself.

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Guest cleefurd

That idea has merit, providing it was a drawing based nomination, and the evaluator agree to purchase it if he found it suitable to his/her needs.

 

Best way to guarantee random selectee is to assign 10 people as candidates, and let the last digit of the official Weater channel hi temperature for Casper Wyoming on the scheduled release date determine the winning recipient. Eliminates monkey business, since NO one here sells crystal balls. HAHA.

 

I actually met with our project manager today and he seems to HATE the idea, not knowing how many people would commit. The problem is, about 3 out of 10 takers actually pull the trigger and mean business. I on the other hand know that 3 out of 10 is still good numbers, since I know the market a little better than he. Now I'm on a mission to prove him wrong. I'll be sorting out the details in the coming weeks. 1st order of business is getting one of our originals back, or building another, so I can get around the proprietary Govt property photos, and show a civilian conversion (with engraving etc). to those interested, and provide the "sample" to a random selectee as outlined above. Expect a month or two before something materializes, and hopefully I won't get fired for taking initiative. My personal ventures are doing well, so at least he isn't laughing at the idea, wish me luck.

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Wow, I'm impressed... I cannot wait to get a collapsible stock kit for my M4 11707

 

can I buy an upgraded full length spring from you for the full length tube?

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Guest cleefurd

Thank You. Yes the springs are inbound, the stocks are still tentative, but potential is mounting. Look for us to update our on-line store soon (still dormant)

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I like the idea of a group purchase. It would give you a known quantity and us a price break?

 

I think all of us are a little nervous about price - that would be the biggest issue and you've indicated that they would be at or above current market prices of the Benelli stocks. I've not convinced myself to pay that much for one yet. However, if pricing were able to come in under the current range I beleive the volume could be very strong - who ownes an M4 and doesn't want the "cool" factor stock? :-) Oh yeah, I think there's some tactical advantage to it but I'm not sure it matters. :-)

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Guest cleefurd

I may lose some potential sales here, but I truly believe there is no monumental advantage to the tele-stock. In some ways it is a liability, requiring conscientious deployment/elevated cognitive function that is oft at a premium under high stress. I do prefer it though for urban/home/close quarter navigation, and vehicle exit strategy enhancement. Breechers contend there is some frailty with the factory tele stock as well, the fixed variant being more resilient. All things considered, I still LOVE the tele stock, and don't see myself discarding or reverting back to any other buttstock.

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Guest cleefurd
I'd be interested if the price wasn't too outrageous.

Pics and a price range would get a more firm answer.

Perhaps a group purchase might be a way to go . . .

 

I am assuming it would be a straightforward swap for those

of us with an M4 with a fixed pistol grip or field stock (11707 and 11717)?

No extra parts needed?

Aside from switching over the fixed stock's recoil pad, nut, compression spring, and small cast (hidden) trigger block (requires a drift, and 5 minutes time) and providing your prefered AR15 pistol grip, no other parts are required. My boss did it without guidance, and he doesn't even own one.

 

We anticipate the minimum run of 75-125 would necessitate a $475-$525 price tag. Of course if we made 1500-2000 of them, the cost would likely hover at or near the $300 mark, but we don't have anywhere near the capitol or market analysis on hand to justify a temp loan for a run of that magnitude. It would be like building a house on a levee in todays uncertain legislative climate. 75-125 units just begins to bridge the gap between cost prohibitive "one-off" cadence, and streamlined production realization. In ANY scenario we are talking about a custom creation utilizing premium components and hi-end manufacturing process. They are supremely crafted as you'll note if/when we commence, and demonstrate. Still prodding my partners/management. I'll keep you posted.

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My input, from having watched the benelli m4 market for a few years now, and having bought and sold quite a few Benelli parts myself ...

 

I can't imagine you will have ANY problem selling them. I imagine you will sell thousands of these if they truly are at/above factory quality and at a $300 price point for a sufficiently high quantity.

 

Even at an initial, "unproven" offering of $500 or so, plenty of people are still fighting on gunbroker and here for stock units at or above that price. If your unit is truly better, as you claim, you will have no problem selling these units.

 

People that have bought the M4 are not your average "it's a shotgun, it's only worth $300 dollars" people. Many here have already shelled out over ~$2000 for their weapon and accessories. There are many in this crowd who consider $500 to be a relatively low price for a previously near unavailable accessory, and $300 would be a steal. I seriously expect you would be able to sell thousands at this price point.

 

For an example of someone entering the M4 market, offering a quality product that was previously hard to find, and then making bank on tons of units sold, look no farther than SOCOMguy.

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16367&highlight=socomguy

 

His tubes are substanitally more expensive than other alternatives that have come around in recent times, and he has competition, and he still sells lots of tubes ... you will have no competition really, unless someone else starts making the stock (not likely).

 

Overall, I'd suggest you look closely at this ... it's an unfilled, high end market niche that currently has no supplier offering anything to meet a pretty high demand level.

 

My $.02

Edited by Duggan

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Aside from switching over the fixed stock's recoil pad, nut, compression spring, and small cast (hidden) trigger block (requires a drift, and 5 minutes time) and providing your prefered AR15 pistol grip, no other parts are required. My boss did it without guidance, and he doesn't even own one.

 

We anticipate the minimum run of 75-125 would necessitate a $475-$525 price tag. Of course if we made 1500-2000 of them, the cost would likely hover at or near the $300 mark, but we don't have anywhere near the capitol or market analysis on hand to justify a temp loan for a run of that magnitude. It would be like building a house on a levee in todays uncertain legislative climate. 75-125 units just begins to bridge the gap between cost prohibitive "one-off" cadence, and streamlined production realization. In ANY scenario we are talking about a custom creation utilizing premium components and hi-end manufacturing process. They are supremely crafted as you'll note if/when we commence, and demonstrate. Still prodding my partners/management. I'll keep you posted.

 

I think that price is ok.

I'd be supremely interested if you could somehow provide us with a grip similar in feel and appearance to the Benelli grip.

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