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922R Do you care?


Ding126
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With everyone adding a one piece mag tube. Where are you finding the other parts needed to comply with the required US Parts? Thats why I choose the factory 2 rnd ext. I can easily take it off and install the limiter

 

ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993

§ 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

 

 

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of §178.151; or

 

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

© For purposes of this section, the term "imported parts" are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates

 

 

The parts breakdown for the M4 Super 90 is:

 

1. Receiver

2. Barrel

3. Bolt

4. Bolt carrier

5. Gas piston 1

6. Gas piston 2

7. Trigger housing

8. Trigger

9. Hammer

10. Disconnector

11. Buttstock

12. Pistol grip

13. Handguard

14. Magazine body/Tube

15. Follower

 

Replace 5 of those and you're gold. You do not have to have less than 10 parts.

Edited by Ding126
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I don't have anything that would apply one way or the other, but I'll make a comment anyway.

 

If I did have such equipment, I wouldn't worry too much about whether it was compliant to 922R or not.

 

When has anyone ever been prosecuted for the violation without first facing more serious charges?

 

Trick out your toys the way you want, shoot at private ranges, and don't worry about it.

 

Now if you're dealing weed out of your kitchen, and you have a non-compliant M4 sitting in the corner, you may be subject to get charged for it.... if the local cops even know how to read the law.

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With everyone adding a one piece mag tube. Where are you finding the other parts needed to comply with the required US Parts? Thats why I choose the factory 2 rnd ext. I can easily take it off and install the limiter

 

Do you have a letter from the ATF stating that they now claim the m1014 is made of 15 imported parts?

 

Because as of late 2006 their stance was that is was made up of 11 imported parts, as you see below.

 

412235.jpg

 

412237.jpg

 

If this letter is still relevant (and I have no reason to beleive it is not), then you only need to replace ONE part to be 922r compliant.

 

Ironically, it means that your factory +2 extension makes your gun 922r illegal (as it is still 11 parts), but using a US made full length tube would make the gun 922r legal (10 parts).

 

Fun stuff huh?

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It lists that the pistol grip and the buttstock are two different parts. That may be the case on the collapsible stock, but on the fixed pistol grip stock it is one piece with a rubber slip on grip. Is the rubber grip what constitutes the pistol grip?

 

I replaced as many parts as I could get to move the US made part count up no matter who's list of evil you use.

 

I don't live in a crybaby State. I don't loose any sleep over it. Besides, people in jail have better healthcare than my current plan.

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"922R Do you care?"

 

Well yes. :)

 

I'm sure this has already been done but I called benelliusa customer service today and asked the age old question...

 

"I plan to buy a Benelli M4. It is my understanding that due to federal law 922r, I cannot add a 2-shot extension to the shotgun or make it capable of holding more than five shells in the magazine. Is this true?"

 

The answer was....

 

"You can add a aftermarket +2 or full length magazine, just NOT an imported +2 or full length tube." "You still need to check with your state laws though."

 

 

So what's the opinion of the day on this age old question?

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"You can add a aftermarket +2 or full length magazine, just NOT an imported +2 or full length tube." "You still need to check with your state laws though."

 

 

So what's the opinion of the day on this age old question?

 

Legal gray area. That's their interpretation. ATF and the Justice Department (as well as any local authorities) may interpret the law differently. As far as I know, the various interpretations of 922® have not been vetted and decided in a court of law. It may be permissible to install US made parts if the overall imported parts count remains over the limit; but it might not be. So, if you're going to do it, you do so at your own risk.

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It lists that the pistol grip and the buttstock are two different parts. That may be the case on the collapsible stock, but on the fixed pistol grip stock it is one piece with a rubber slip on grip. Is the rubber grip what constitutes the pistol grip?...

 

Maybe that is why they stopped importing them with the collapsible stock? If you merge the pistol grip and buttstock into one part you hit 10...the magic ATF number!

 

If you got one of the original imports that came with the collapsible stock would you be grandfathered in? They could conceivably know when it was imported based on the serial number. That would imply I need to use a USA manufactured collapsible stock if I want to replace my solid one.:confused:

 

If the solid stock version is conssidered to be 10 parts then you could esentially add a USA made mag extension to bring the count down to 9 and then buy a Benelli collapsible stock to bring it back up to 10? ...the mind wobbles

Edited by OhioM4
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Maybe that is why they stopped importing them with the collapsible stock? If you merge the pistol grip and buttstock into one part you hit 10...the magic ATF number!

 

 

If the solid stock version is conssidered to be 10 parts then you could esentially add a USA made mag extension to bring the count down to 9 and then buy a Benelli collapsible stock to bring it back up to 10? ...the mind wobbles

 

Do a search on this topic. I confess to being unsure, but thinking you may be wrong in your theory above. Once you start to monkey with it you embark on a "configuration" that has many more than ten foreign parts already. So to use your example, once you add a US made mag tube, that requires that you replace MORE parts, not that you can now add a foreign-made collapsible stock. As you might see in a search, a list of key parts varies among the ATF responses. In the first post of this thread it's 15 items, so in that case, you change one thing you need to change at least four more. Additionally, as some have asserted, only an answer from the ATF in direct response to your query may protect you should this be an issue.

 

Hope I have this right. I think this law is the only reason there's ever a discussion of finding a source of US gas pistons, etc.

Edited by BigHat
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So this is confusing, my M4 is by definition illegal unless I modify it from factory specs?

 

Your m4 with the stock limiter is fine.

 

If you want +2 rounds, you need to use a US made extension or full length tube.

 

That's pretty much what it comes down to.

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Your m4 with the stock limiter is fine.

 

If you want +2 rounds, you need to use a US made extension or full length tube.

 

That's pretty much what it comes down to.

 

 

That's my understanding too. I know it's "just customer support" at benelliusa, but I'm sure they have had to answer this question several times.

 

There is a lot of confusion out there about the M4 and increasing magazine capacity. I like many of you have read countless threads on several forums that have discussed this issue to death. You take all those discussions to a 3-gun match and you'll see that everyone has their own opinion on the matter.

 

I overheard a fellow shooter at a multi-gun match last month announce to everyone on the stage that, "I guess it's time to take my illegal M4 home because it has a pistol grip and a +2 ext. on it!" The match director and a couple of other mis-informed shooters were the ones that had told him of the problem. The guy went on to say, "I'd like to see that case go to court, I'm sure that I could beat that BS anyday of the week!"

 

Personaly, I would like to see Benelli step up and issue a letter on their web site that informs any M4 owner or future M4 owner that is in fact alright to add a USA made extension just not an imported one. Would that be asking too much? If their customer support is telling everyone that, then why not issue a formal letter so that this confusion could be cleared up.

Edited by babob
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That's my understanding too. I know it's "just customer support" at benelliusa, but I'm sure they have had to answer this question several times.

 

There is a lot of confusion out there about the M4 and increasing magazine capacity. I like many of you have read countless threads on several forums that have discussed this issue to death. You take that all those discussions to a 3-gun match and you'll see that everyone has their own opinion on the matter.

 

I overheard a fellow shooter at a multi-gun match last month announce to everyone on the stage that, "I guess it's time to take my illegal M4 home because it has a pistol grip and a +2 ext. on it!" The match director and a couple of other mis-informed shooters were the ones that had told him of the problem. The guy went on to say, "I'd like to see that case go to court, I'm sure that I could beat that BS anyday of the week!"

 

Personaly, I would like to see Benelli step up and issue a letter on their web site that informs any M4 owner or future M4 owner that is in fact alright to add a USA made extension just not an imported one. Would that be asking too much? If their customer support is telling everyone that, then why not issue a formal letter so that this confusion could be cleared up.

 

922r is not intended, IMO, to be a clear and concise law.

 

It is the type of obscure, grey, unenforceable law that acts as a deterrent first and foremost, and as an extra layer of "screw you" to use when "they" throw the book at someone who was going down anyways for other charges.

 

922r's bearing on normal gun owners ... well, I'll let you decide that for yourself.

 

That said, when there is a simple way to be 100% legal, why not just do it?

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Print out a copy of the letter Duggan linked. Pull the grip off your pistol grip, and fold the letter up and stick it inside the empty space inside the pistol grip.

 

If an overzealous cop gives you any grief, pull out the letter. Show the magazine tube with the USA markings. Play it safe and get an aftermarket USA made follower.

 

Even if the collapsible stock and pistol grip is considered two parts, you'd be safe according to this letters count.

 

Retards running 3-gun rules may still ban you from playing their reindeer games, but you'll have the weapon you want. If this weapon is part of your home defense plan, cover your ass. Convert as much as you can to US made parts.

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This week's update.

 

I make another call to benelliusa asking the same question as before and was told the same thing.

 

"You can add a made in the USA ext. or FL tube, just not an imported one."

 

But, this CS rep. went on to say...

 

"If you can find one made in the US, to her knowledge there were no made in the usa 2-shot ext. or FL tubes available."

 

I pointed out that there was in fact made in the USA 2-shot ext's that Brownell's sells. In addidtion to that, right on their own forums at bennelliusa.com, there were individuals that sell the FL tubes.

 

I then asked once again, "you're saying that I can add a made in the USA 2-shot ext. or FL tube to my M4 and this is due to the amount of imported parts count on the SG?"

 

The answer was, "YES".

 

I then asked if they could send me or at least tell me what the exact imported parts count on the M4 was. I was told that they do not provide any documentation for this issue and after a brief moment away to check what that number of parts was, I was told that I needed to address any further questions regarding the Benelli M4 Super 90 to the ATF.

 

WOW! :rolleyes:

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This week's update.

 

I make another call to benelliusa asking the same question as before and was told the same thing.

 

"You can add a made in the USA ext. or FL tube, just not an imported one."

 

But, this CS rep. went on to say...

 

"If you can find one made in the US, to her knowledge there were no made in the usa 2-shot ext. or FL tubes available."

 

I pointed out that there was in fact made in the USA 2-shot ext's that Brownell's sells. In addidtion to that, right on their own forums at bennelliusa.com, there were individuals that sell the FL tubes.

 

I then asked once again, "you're saying that I can add a made in the USA 2-shot ext. or FL tube to my M4 and this is due to the amount of imported parts count on the SG?"

 

The answer was, "YES".

 

I then asked if they could send me or at least tell me what the exact imported parts count on the M4 was. I was told that they do not provide any documentation for this issue and after a brief moment away to check what that number of parts was, I was told that I needed to address any further questions regarding the Benelli M4 Super 90 to the ATF.

 

WOW! :rolleyes:

 

What did you expect?

 

They want minimal liability, and they referred you to the agency that creates/enforces this bullsh%t in the first place.

 

That way, your actions will be based on the ATFs word, not Benellis. It is like liability for them, potentially.

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What did you expect?

 

They want minimal liability, and they referred you to the agency that creates/enforces this bullsh%t in the first place.

 

That way, your actions will be based on the ATFs word, not Benellis. It is like liability for them, potentially.

 

 

Oh I agree 100%. They are not and IMO should not be giving anyone legal advice on this age old matter.

 

But what get's me is each time I asked (and it was two different people), they gave the instant and same response. The CS support clearly has been trained to inform customers that it is ok to add the made in the USA parts and the SG is still legal. Surely they would not be passing this info along to customers based on their own "opinions"?

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Oh I agree 100%. They are not and IMO should not be giving anyone legal advice on this age old matter.

 

But what get's me is each time I asked (and it was two different people), they gave the instant and same response. The CS support clearly has been trained to inform customers that it is ok to add the made in the USA parts and the SG is still legal. Surely they would not be passing this info along to customers based on their own "opinions"?

 

I guess.

 

It's part sales pitch (customers WANT to be told they can do what they want within reason) and part limited liability stock answer.

 

Their answer doesn't really say anything except that they are supporting their product being used as it was intended to be used ... with a US made legal loophole.

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